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Welcoming criticism with open arms?

Korvinagor

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I have to admit, it's one of my weaknesses - while I logically understand the value behind it, and appreciate the learning experience that it can provide, it doesn't make me feel any better. I feel not wounded, because that's over-dramatic and an exaggeration, but...dunce-capped? It's this feeling that I've done something wrong that sort of gets to me a little bit. I've found that having time to think and rationalise the criticism out quite helpful, but unfortunately that's not always possible.

Anyone else take criticism a bit too personally? Or did, but grew out of it? Any success stories?
 

ceecee

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You're a 9, I think that comes with the territory somewhat. But developing self-confidence makes you more open to feedback and criticism. Maybe working on your confidence would be a better strategy than trying to improve how you approach criticism. I do think it requires some maturing as well.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I agree^, working on being as accepting of yourself/comfortable with who you are will invariably have the (wanted) consequence of making criticism easier to immediately entertain. But working on the end itself of being able to take criticism will more than likely result in being less accepting of oneself and have the (unwanted) consequence of making you more sensitive to it.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I agree^, working on being as accepting of yourself/comfortable with who you are will invariably have the (wanted) consequence of making criticism easier to immediately entertain. But working on the end itself of being able to take criticism will more than likely result in being less accepting of oneself and have the (unwanted) consequence of making you more sensitive to it.
This is part of it, but there is a lot of criticism in the world that is intended as personal attack. It's part and parcel for socially competitive conversations. These are general principles I use, but it is of course always more complex:

1. Constructive criticism: tends to be specific, it will often include both positive and negative observations since it is balanced in its motives, it will also often contain suggestions on how to correct the problem. Example: "When you sing a high note, the pitch is going flat. You need to deepen your breath, relax your throat when producing a note, and these are examples of exercises you can practice to extend your range upwards."

2. Destructive criticism: tends to be global, exaggerated, focusing only on the negative, and gives an observation that in no way can be corrected. Example: "When you sing high notes, you go flat. You are the worst singer in the world."
 

Fidelia

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Yes, I've struggled with it. Not even that I'm angry at it, but it embarrassed me that I didn't see it before. I also cringe to know what people really, really think, particularly if it's an area that matters to me. While I don't have it all cases, the following has been helpful:

1. Whether I know it or not, people are still going to hold those opinions, so it's better that I have the information to work with so I'm informed and also so I can correct any misconceptions.

2. People cannot tell you who you really are. All they can tell you is how they perceive you. By welcoming those impressions, you get a more balanced picture of what you are putting out there and how it is received. Sometimes this brings to our attention behaviours or motivations in us that we aren't consciously aware of, or allows us to think why people are arriving at certain impressions if they don't feel accurate to you.

3. No one brings objectivity with them. They will perceive you through the lens of their own information, insecurities, motivations, personality, culture and experience. I used to think that when people said something negative that it was the Truth. I realize now that there are a number of factors to consider in the mix. That's not to say that they aren't giving us useful information, but one person's statement is only a snapshot at that time, and where both of you are at in that moment.

4. Often I ask my violin students to record themselves playing. The information they can collect while playing is limited by executing the task and the emotions and thoughts they are experiencing during that time. When they watch themselves, they notice many factors that they couldn't before. Sometimes we need an extra set of eyes to help us out and to give us advice.

5. Most difficult tasks (as long as there's want to) require either more information to work with or else more practice to improve. If you don't have sufficient information, you need to seek out people who do so that when you are practicing, you are doing the job correctly and efficiently.

6. There is a lot of trust developed in the process of making yourself vulnerable enough to either give or receive feedback and have the other person accept it openly. That doesn't have to mean even that they take the advice given. Just that they hear it. In the process, both parties are more assured that they can count on honesty in the relationship and also begin to trust that a different opinion or viewpoint doesn't mean dislike. If you only experience this very seldom with high anxiety or anger surrounding it, it's terrifying, but the more often you navigate it, the less of a big deal it feels like for the giver or receiver.

7. Whether there's good will in the criticism or whether there isn't doesn't nagatw the value of the feedback and also doesn't negate the value of what we can learn from the exchange. I had a piano teacher who lost it at me in a lesson one day, quite unexpectedly and I was devastated. However, I learned a lot about how to approach a problem and resolve it in a better way, how to close the circle after a problem with someone, and it also sensitized me to how what I was doing could be misread. She was a miserable, though talented person, but I learned just as much as I would have from someone kind and I was glad my parents helped me navigate fixing things instead of just quitting lessons with her.

8. I tended to confuse people's criticism of my performance with dislike of who I was at my core. I guess I felt that my judgement, which prompted my behaviour was a part of me, so therefore something was deeply flawed with me at my core. When you distinguish between the two, it is much less threatening.

9. Learning to take more risks generally is helping me adapt to feeling foolish from time to time instead of just avoiding anything where I could look incompetent. After awhile that feeling of panic does down because it's more familiar and you know you'll live through it. Making mistakes in front of other people also makes you more approachable.

10. Developing confidence in several areas not only familiarizes you with the steps in the learning process but also affects your self perception. If everything is riding on one thing and someone criticizes it, we are deeply affected, but if you know you are a competent person in other areas, you are more likely to see the criticism as task specific, not as a reflection of your ability to learn or be of value, etc.

Just a few thoughts to mull over.

Any unpleasant thing becomes less fearsome if we do it enough that we know what feelings to expect and their intensity decreases so that the emotion doesn't capsize our rational self and make us avoidant or defensive. Over time, we realize we'll come out the other side okay, if we do it often enough and invite it rather than fighting the process.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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7. Whether there's good will in the criticism or whether there isn't doesn't nagate the value of the feedback and also doesn't negate the value of what we can learn from the exchange. I had a piano teacher who lost it at me in a lesson one day, quite unexpectedly and i was devastated. However, I learned a lot about how to approach a problem and resolve it in a better way, how to close the circle after a problem with someone, and it also sensitized me to how what I was doing could be misread. She was a miserable, though talented person, but I learned just as much as I would have from someone kind and I was glad my parents helped me navigate fixing things instead of just quitting lessons with her.
I respect you a lot for approaching things in this way, and you are consistent with it in online debates as well. It takes a certain kind of inner strength to be able to learn a significant amount from a negative, distorted exchange.

I think I used to feel like I could learn from the negative encounters, and have, but I'll have to confess that in reading that anecdote, I would like to have a few words with that teacher. If the motivation is well-meaning, I'll take extremely harsh language, but if the motive is actually destructive, then I want to wield some justice. When looking deeply into other people, I've been surprised sometimes at just how dark they actually are. Even though at my core I'm a humanist believing that there has been good in everyone, there are times I've found it to be much less than I used to suppose.

I had a voice teacher that believed people only grow with competition, so he was oddly manipulative with me and trying to make me feel worse than the other students. It reached a point I would start crying every time I wanted to sing. I wish I had quit long before. In a way it made me stronger, but there has been an abundance of other opportunities to learn the same lesson. In some cases an angry is sacred to me in those situations.

I don't think there is only one constructive approach to dealing with destructive critical attacks. It has to do with the totality of the person experiencing it. I still want to say that you are admirable in your patience with people - and consistent. You actually do what you say. :)
 

Fidelia

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This lady was in a lot of pain, was generally a bit ungracious and was in the midst of losing her sister to cancer. There was obviously some element of control, as my mom would usually sit in the basement and during this particular lesson, my mom had had to be out of town. I did something that she found annoying and she lost her temper. It wasn't called for or constructive.

I think the good thing was how my mom handled it. She let me debrief, she agreed that it wasn't the right way for the teacher to handle it, but pointed out some of the factors that were likely at play that didn't have to do with me. We talked too about what she had been upset over and even though she misread me, it was a reminder that sometimes we have to be aware not just of our intent but be sensitized to how others may perceive things. Then she talked to my teacher separately (who was I think rather apprehensive) and let her know how badly I felt, as well as that if there is a problem, she'd like to know, so it can get dealt with. She assured her that we valued what she had to offer (she was the only teacher at the time who could have coached me through my piano exam) and then I went upstairs and had my lesson.

Had I not had support like that, it would have been a very scarring experience, but as it was, I can look back on it now without the emotion of that day washing over me.

I agree though that not everyone is well intentioned who has criticism. I've also often found that many times when I've felt stupid or foolish or incompetent, it has more to do with the other person's insecurities than it does with who I am, but it took me many years to figure that out.

Oddly, I'm almost completely unaffected by people who I know just are volatile or foolish. It's not hard to remain diplomatic. It's when someone has the power to shake my confidence in whether I am seeing the situation accurately or subtly makes me question aspects of myself that I had felt quite assured about that it messes with me. I can't eat, feel sick, don't sleep right, often can't deal with it directly because there's a power imbalance, etc. Still haven't found a fix for that.
 

Z Buck McFate

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This is part of it, but there is a lot of criticism in the world that is intended as personal attack. It's part and parcel for socially competitive conversations. These are general principles I use, but it is of course always more complex:

1. Constructive criticism: tends to be specific, it will often include both positive and negative observations since it is balanced in its motives, it will also often contain suggestions on how to correct the problem. Example: "When you sing a high note, the pitch is going flat. You need to deepen your breath, relax your throat when producing a note, and these are examples of exercises you can practice to extend your range upwards."

2. Destructive criticism: tends to be global, exaggerated, focusing only on the negative, and gives an observation that in no way can be corrected. Example: "When you sing high notes, you go flat. You are the worst singer in the world."

Yes. Criticism that comes as some sort of personal attack is more complicated. In addition to the above, there's also criticism presented in "constructive" format which is actually a veiled attack- which is the worst, imo, because it has a slimy manipulative feel to it. :ack!: Especially if it's done publicly.

I think there's a distinct difference in intention- between presenting criticism as an earnest attempt at being helpful, versus some kind of attack (even if the person dispatching it doesn't recognize it as such and the 'attack' aspect doesn't consciously register as part of their own intention). I think people can generally sense where the dispatcher of criticism is coming from- if it's coming from a place of wanting to help, or if it's just dumping shame or venting, (eta: or if it's coming from a place of someone neeee-e-e-eding to help, like their 'help' is more about their needs than about helping- there are lots of different intentions, but the point I'm trying to make is that a person can generally tell if it's earnest concern or something more about themselves /eta).

And so, yeah, it's important to not take in criticism just because someone is presenting it to you. But I have found that on days when I'm feeling low and/or I'm not feeling particularly accepting of myself, then I need all criticism presented coming from a very constructive place or it can make my insecurity spin out of control. And on days when I'm feeling pretty solid, okay with myself, then I can simply shrug off criticism presented as an attack. Because in the end, criticism presented as an attack says more about the person presenting it than it does about me. It's easiest to remember that when I'm feeling okay/solid about myself. And even criticism that's presented as an attack can contain useful information- something I can only really see if I'm feeling secure.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I agree though that not everyone is well intentioned who has criticism. I've also often found that many times when I've felt stupid or foolish or incompetent, it has more to do with the other person's insecurities than it does with who I am, but it took me many years to figure that out.

Ha, yes, I was trying to say this same thing just before reading this. When I'm feeling secure, it's relatively easy to see unwarranted attacks are more about the other person.

(eta: But when I'm not feeling secure, I can find myself actually attacking back sometimes- which is not something I'm proud of, is something I'm trying to work on, but I have to admit is something that happens.)

Oddly, I'm almost completely unaffected by people who I know just are volatile or foolish. It's not hard to remain diplomatic. It's when someone has the power to shake my confidence in whether I am seeing the situation accurately or subtly makes me question aspects of myself that I had felt quite assured about that it messes with me. I can't eat, feel sick, don't sleep right, often can't deal with it directly because there's a power imbalance, etc. Still haven't found a fix for that.

Yes- it's difficult to explain, but when I have a bad reaction to someone, it's actually because I do give them some credit. I don't bother arguing a point with someone I don't give any credit to. When I've pretty much written someone off, I can be pretty unaffected by anything said.

One example of the latter though is when someone has a lot of social clout amongst people whose judgment I have some regard for- that can really mess with me. But what's true is that people who present criticism from a place of actual compassion, instead of doing it as some kind of attack, will care when their words cause a really bad reaction. This is something that I can see clearly when I'm not in the throes of being attacked, but it's not always easy in the throes of it.


**********

Back to the op though, a personal anecdote is coming to mind. Years ago, I was part of a "self actualization" group- one of the exercises we did was to give feedback to someone who had been assigned a partner for a few months, by 'imitating' them. This partner is someone we had to talk to every day for a few minutes on the phone, just to touch base and let each other know if we were keeping all of our agreements (the premise is that accountability makes people keep their agreements with themselves- it's easier to lie to ourselves and say it's 'okay' to slack on things that we wouldn't slack on if we had to tell someone else). This exercise of giving feedback was done in front of the entire group. I was really embarrased by this woman's imitation of me. It was dead on in some regards, and if I were more accepting of myself I would have been able to laugh at how accurate it was. But I was unprepared to see such a realistic caricature of my weaknesses, it took me off guard and the fact that it happened in front of a group made it a lot worse. But ultimately, it was very useful information to me and very helpful to realize that's how I came across to people. My reaction wasn't anger per se at the woman- though I feel confident it came across that way- it was sheer embarrassment. [There are lots of flaws in the exercises done in this group, a lot of which I recognized in retrospect. But the woman was not coming from a place of wanting to be hurtful- she just didn't put excessive energy into sugar-coating it to make it easier to hear, and I don't always have the energy to super sugar-coat things myself so I can understand that.]

So, something that I'm perpetually working on is having more of a sense of humor about hearing accurate (and embarrassing) feedback.
 

Fidelia

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Also when I feel like I can't trust my own perceptions, I become paranoid everywhere I look. I also am more reactive when operating with a lack of information, especially if it feels like the relationship is becoming lopsided or that the person is withholding important info, because I then can't navigate and also assume the worst.

I've learned that that is a bad time for me to make any decisions, convey my feelings, etc, because it creates even more mess later to clean up. When I'm in a confident state, I can fairly quickly sort out what to do, assume good intent, and trust my gut feelings. When I am not, it's like danger could be anywhere, or things could be just fine, but I have no way of deciding which it is.

That exercise in front of the group sounds dreadful. I've had extensive discussions with people who are able to roll with embarrassment publicly because I in the past have just avoided situations where I could feel publically embarrassed or where I didn't want to feel hurt or upset at people for reacting to my foibles with amusement. I felt if I never developed some ability to do so, it would really limit me and also keep that muscle grossly underdeveloped. I'm slightly better than I used to be. But I still struggle to just laugh it off because it's not just my internal reaction, but also having to see how people react to my external reaction (and being pretty transparent, I'm not sure if I could hide my reaction of complete shame and mortification in an exercise like that. )
 

Fidelia

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I also struggle with tone, delivery or the credibility of the person delivering the message interfering with the way I hear the message and also with how open I am to listening. I don't think those factors are irrelevant, but they probably take too high of a priority for me.
 

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I tend towards immediate defensiveness but actually do listen and am pretty good at responding to it given time. What really irks me though is unfair criticism. That pisses me off. I tend to think less of people who are unfairly judgmental.
 

Korvinagor

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I tend towards immediate defensiveness but actually do listen and am pretty good at responding to it given time. What really irks me though is unfair criticism. That pisses me off. I tend to think less of people who are unfairly judgmental.

That's certainly true - time to think about the criticism can really help. It's the knee-jerk reaction that I'd like to curb most. Unfortunately, that seems to be the more difficult part...
 

highlander

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That's certainly true - time to think about the criticism can really help. It's the knee-jerk reaction that I'd like to curb most. Unfortunately, that seems to be the more difficult part...
It's not so bad really. Having been in a lot of leadership roles, its important to know when to let it roll off and when to listen. Its really important to respond to valid criticisms which involve things you should change. That being said a lot of criticism is wrong and unfair. Some do it to bring others down because it makes them feel superior. Sometimes it is manipulative. Sometimes people project their own flaws onto others. I think its good to understand the origins of it because even if is wrong or stupid, it involves a perception on the part of the other person which may tie to some things you did or frankly might just be their problem. Sometimes it is a combination of both. A lot of times people don't criticize you to your face either and are backstabbing which in my book is worse. It usually gets back to you one way or the other. Given some of these dynamics, I think a level of healthy skepticism or guardedness is often justified whenever people express judgments about you either favorable or unfavorable.
 

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I have to admit, it's one of my weaknesses - while I logically understand the value behind it, and appreciate the learning experience that it can provide, it doesn't make me feel any better. I feel not wounded, because that's over-dramatic and an exaggeration, but...dunce-capped? It's this feeling that I've done something wrong that sort of gets to me a little bit. I've found that having time to think and rationalise the criticism out quite helpful, but unfortunately that's not always possible.

Anyone else take criticism a bit too personally? Or did, but grew out of it? Any success stories?

I'm more comfortable with criticism that's objective and oriented towards actions. Someone can be as hostile as they want to be about what I'm doing or how I'm doing it, but if they presume on my motivations, we'll have a problem. That's true in both professional and personal relationships.

What's important to remember with criticism is that if someone is coming to you with a problem, then they're still invested in you. They think you're capable of working with them to make things better, and they want things to be alright as much as you do. It is a much, much bigger problem if you're hearing things secondhand or simply are no longer receiving feedback at all. When that happens that means that the other party has more than likely washed their hands of the situation. I also think it's good to be proactive about seeking out feedback. If you think that there's a problem or tension, it's good to just ask the other person what's up. People will give you brownie points for caring enough to ask, especially if you can do so in a way that's reasonably diplomatic.
 

Doglover

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I'm fine with constructive criticism. In fact, I usually appreciate it because ultimately I need feedback (positive and negative) for personal growth. If I'm receiving criticism that is sharp and coming out of left field, I tend to get REALLY embarrassed (like red faced, stammering, think I might die embarrassed). After I've retreated, licked my wounds, and analyzed the situation to death, I can still usually pull something constructive out of it...or I've put the offending critiquer on a short list of people I wish would fall off the face of the earth. ;)
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I also struggle with tone, delivery or the credibility of the person delivering the message interfering with the way I hear the message and also with how open I am to listening. I don't think those factors are irrelevant, but they probably take too high of a priority for me.
When the tone is mocking I can get triggered and angry, even if I don't take their criticism seriously. I have a problem of sometimes letting the bad behavior of one individual reverberate into feeling surrounded by it as though it is fundamental to all of humanity. Then, it isn't the individual who hurt my feelings, but a sense of hopelessness for patterns of destructive, hurtful behavior that appear overwhelmingly common and inescapable.

My most beloved mentor (an INTJ) from my graduate school days has also remained my friend. She is one good example of my relationship to criticism. She is well known for being overly direct, blunt to the point of often offending people, but I've had many long conversations with her, and I know her intent is unusually pure, so I can re-calibrate to her. However, she is never mocking or snarky, but just super blunt. I tend to live in some fear of her because if she ever changed her mind about me and my skill, it would be disorienting and hard to take. She is my one best external source of objectively measuring what I am capable of producing. I welcome her criticism through the years because she is right about it. She cuts through the nonsense, and since I have an honest desire to improve the skills she knows, then her input is helpful for me and kind.

I remember once attending a master class with a high level musician from Julliard and after the session my professor told me that most of the students felt disappointed that he wasn't more excited about their music. In that context such a thing never crossed my mind. He had been objective and direct, and I didn't expect him to be excited or surprised by anything we created - for heaven's sake he works with prodigies on a daily basis. No surprises here. The reaction of the other students was almost confusing to me.

OTOH, I probably seem too reactive against some criticisms socially because I typically don't trust those. The observations that others have made in this thread about the complexity of motivations are especially true in social dynamics (especially where there is power involved). I can get quite annoyed and disgusted by those games and so get really reactive against those criticisms. It isn't the observation of faults, but the attempt at power games that triggers the anger in me.
 

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I respect you a lot for approaching things in this way, and you are consistent with it in online debates as well. It takes a certain kind of inner strength to be able to learn a significant amount from a negative, distorted exchange.

I think I used to feel like I could learn from the negative encounters, and have, but I'll have to confess that in reading that anecdote, I would like to have a few words with that teacher. If the motivation is well-meaning, I'll take extremely harsh language, but if the motive is actually destructive, then I want to wield some justice. When looking deeply into other people, I've been surprised sometimes at just how dark they actually are. Even though at my core I'm a humanist believing that there has been good in everyone, there are times I've found it to be much less than I used to suppose.

I had a voice teacher that believed people only grow with competition, so he was oddly manipulative with me and trying to make me feel worse than the other students. It reached a point I would start crying every time I wanted to sing. I wish I had quit long before. In a way it made me stronger, but there has been an abundance of other opportunities to learn the same lesson. In some cases an angry is sacred to me in those situations.

I don't think there is only one constructive approach to dealing with destructive critical attacks. It has to do with the totality of the person experiencing it. I still want to say that you are admirable in your patience with people - and consistent. You actually do what you say. :)

You don't know the power of the dark force :vader1:
 
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It's a huge part of my job - dealing with criticism. I've also worked with enough miserable people to know that they can be mean, personal, have absolutely no ability to deal with others, be unethical, and still have a point.

Just last week I got a rejection for a paper that I submitted last year; that was lots of late nights, a lot of pain, and 2+ years of work. The reviewer basically said "this is boring, so overdone and contributes nothing to the field, look at all of these papers that were published on a similar topic". There was disappointment, yes, but I did go look up the papers, found that they didn't really do what we did - we went quite a bit further - and weren't directly relevant. It also highlighted to me that I needed to write the paper in a different way, and if I used those papers as a base for discussing my own work, it would allow us to highlight the bits that were interesting. So it was very constructive, but we wouldn't have gotten to that point if we'd responded emotionally and hadn't put in the work. Being able to break down the points, figure out what we were taking for granted that they couldn't see, and come up with things that we could do better to make our point - it's all a part of the process. For context, what was said was also not particularly harsh lol. There've been some reviews that I've read that were condescending and very personal.

I don't think responding emotionally to criticism is necessarily a bad thing. It means that we care enough about the quality of our work to be upset when someone doesn't like it. Being able to bear in mind that people are coming at our work from a different perspective - which might not make what is apparent to us apparent to them - that's also helpful. In my line of work, if we only took criticism that was phrased in a certain way, we wouldn't get very far. The main thing is to want to do better, break it down to see if we're missing something from where we're standing, and to try to make our work more accessible to others.

On a personal level, I don't mind people criticising me. Whether it's the way that I do things, or who I am. I'm aware that I'm not perfect by any means, and if people want to point out personal flaws, that's OK. I'm also aware that my flaws (and there are many) allow me to see things that other people can't. We're all limited beings, and if someone is able to bring a new perspective to the table, that allows us to have a more complete picture. I'm sensitive over certain things - work ethic, for one. So I make sure that I put in enough work that I'm proud of myself, but refuse to allow myself to be exploited by others. Being aware of what you're sensitive about allows you to keep perspective and distinguish criticism/manipulation. If people attack my character where I didn't ask for their opinion, I'd write them off. I wouldn't get upset, I'd laugh. I used to take revenge by systematically assassinating their character to their face, pointing out their hypocrisies very publicly and bluntly. I try not to do that anymore.
 

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I also struggle with tone, delivery or the credibility of the person delivering the message interfering with the way I hear the message and also with how open I am to listening. I don't think those factors are irrelevant, but they probably take too high of a priority for me.

I think tone and delivery are the biggest issues when saying anything critical, in work interactions, personal interactions and public ones. It matters less what is being said. Anyone who questions that should turn on any news channel for proof. That said, people will take it in different ways. Credibility is a much bigger thing for me - if you are full of shit the majority of the time you open your mouth - I don't care what your tone or delivery sounds like.
 
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