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Loss: What Gives?

Cloudpatrol

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Disappointment and loss are the two emotions I find most confounding and challenging. Not one member on this forum has been immune to loss.


I am interested in how you have dealt with: a break-up, loss of a job, a pet dying, something you care about deeply that breaks, a special person moving away, a friendship fading away, losing health, a loved one's death, letting a dream go etc?


I have to be honest that this forum has helped immensely with processing the loss of my spouse. I will include a couple images (below) that people sent or posted that have helped me immensely.


But, I hope this thread contains more than just dealing with death.


Please share your experiences about ALL types of losses you have been through or fear experiencing.



What (if anything) has helped you?


What have you found helps others?



I am dedicating this thread to [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION] who is dear to me, and just lost his Father.
 

Cloudpatrol

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[MENTION=23222]senza tema[/MENTION] posted this once and it is the single thing (including IRL) that has helped me the most with my most significant loss:

Med_zpsssmexnjj.jpg



I also received this quote from Helen Keller, from a member who I think would prefer to be anonymous. It also provided solace:


"What we once enjoyed
and deeply loved
we can never lose
For all that we love deeply
become
a part of us."
 

Dreamer

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Disappointment and loss are the two emotions I find most confounding and challenging. Not one member on this forum has been immune to loss.


I am interested in how you have dealt with: a break-up, loss of a job, a pet dying, something you care about deeply that breaks, a special person moving away, a friendship fading away, losing health, a loved one's death, letting a dream go etc?


I have to be honest that this forum has helped immensely with processing the loss of my spouse. I will include a couple images (below) that people sent or posted that have helped me immensely.


But, I hope this thread contains more than just dealing with death.


Please share your experiences about ALL types of losses you have been through or fear experiencing.



What (if anything) has helped you?


What have you found helps others?



I am dedicating this thread to [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION] who is dear to me, and just lost his Father.

Thank you Clouds, you are so kind. :hug:
 

Dreamer

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Alrighty [MENTION=27162]Cloudpatrol[/MENTION], I was going to post this entry in my blog but I feel it will reach more people here in the psychology subforum and hopefully, provide some use.

My recent affair with loss, having lost my father, and aunt on my mom's side the same weekend, meant that I had to deal with a plethora of emotions within a short time frame. I was bombarded with varying colors of sadness and emptiness. What I also faced though, were the emotions of other people and during this time, I learned some valuable lessons in learning how to better handle difficult emotions, as well as how to deal with the difficult emotions of others, how to allow yours to coexist with others', and how one can exist between the two. It is impossible to isolate yourself completely from others and to solely work on your own emotions in a time such as death, as you will quickly find that everyone around you will require multitudes of support, either emotionally or practically, and to isolate yourself only hurts yourself by prolonging your depressive state, and that of others around you.

I pride myself on being able to work through and understand my own emotions, but one thing this experience has taught me, is how to face my own emotions and to work through them, while ALSO working through the emotions of others and offering support. Mutual support was the only way I was able to get through this period. My default response and procedure to negative emotion was failing me, and I was at a loss for emotional stability, seeing confusion within my own emotions. This is rather rare for me so the experience was unsettling to say the least. I needed external help, and a way to help identify my own emotions. Seeing them in others, talking to others, helps to give me a greater language to help identify my own emotional nuances deep inside. External references do not dictate the language I should clarify, that comes from within, but "checking" my emotions is akin to a spell check of my internal landscape.

Though I am technically still in this process of grieving, as my father's funeral will be held this Saturday, and I will be giving the Eulogy, the emotional strife attached to death of a loved one has more or less passed, well, the hardest, most blunt edge of loss has passed. I am sure I will "relapse" with negative emotion down the road and that is completely normal to feel. But what I found very intriguing through all of this, was seeing everyone around me work through their emotions. I didn't have to talk to everyone, since most opened up to me on their own accord, and the things they said about my dad, their memories of him, what they were feeling, the questions they asked of me as a form of emotional reassurance, showed me so much of the inner workings of their emotional space. I feel as though I was given the keys to the greatest encyclopedia of emotion and feelings, by witnessing people in a state of loss. Since I was going through many of the same feelings, it felt as though I was sitting in Spanish class reading a text, while hearing the audio to it run at the same time. I was seeing their emotion, talking and sharing that emotion with them, and at the same time, feeling much of the same of that particular emotion, with them. It was truly a unique experience. Typically, I am either in pain, or others are, so I am only able to build my knowledge of emotion from a single face at a time. I felt in this instance, I was manipulating and understanding these various emotions like a 3 dimensional object in a computer modeling program and seeing it from all angles.

I could share more of my experiences of the first four weeks of this ordeal as that was the height of my experience, but I shall end my post here.
 

Cloudpatrol

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Wow.

This:

I feel as though I was given the keys to the greatest encyclopedia of emotion and feelings, by witnessing people in a state of loss. Since I was going through many of the same feelings, it felt as though I was sitting in Spanish class reading a text, while hearing the audio to it run at the same time. I was seeing their emotion, talking and sharing that emotion with them, and at the same time, feeling much of the same of that particular emotion, with them. It was truly a unique experience. Typically, I am either in pain, or others are, so I am only able to build my knowledge of emotion from a single face at a time. I felt in this instance, I was manipulating and understanding these various emotions like a 3 dimensional object in a computer modeling program and seeing it from all angles.

What a beautiful and well-drawn out explanation.

The bolded hit me in the 'truths' and 'feelz'. It is SO cool when someone can put subtitles on an experience that you have never been able to put words to.
 

Dreamer

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A curious thing that has happened to my grieving, and I'm not sure when exactly, the shift happened, but I feel I no longer grieve for the direct loss I have suffered, but I am now grieving for the loss of much more abstract concepts. I find myself now grieving for the loss of a relationship between father and son, for the loss of a good soul having left, for the loss of his continued life experience. I feel I have come to terms with his physical passing, and feel he is with me spiritually, but now when I cry, I notice it is for much different, intangible reasons.
 

Coriolis

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A curious thing that has happened to my grieving, and I'm not sure when exactly, the shift happened, but I feel I no longer grieve for the direct loss I have suffered, but I am now grieving for the loss of much more abstract concepts. I find myself now grieving for the loss of a relationship between father and son, for the loss of a good soul having left, for the loss of his continued life experience. I feel I have come to terms with his physical passing, and feel he is with me spiritually, but now when I cry, I notice it is for much different, intangible reasons.
Yes. If you marry, your spouse will never know him except through shared stories. If you have children, they will grow up with one less grandparent. There are all the conversations you will never have, and all the things you will never do together.

Sorry if this is a downer. It is a big part of loss for me - all the potentials that will never be realized. (I guess Ni doesn't mix well with grief.)

I lost a close family friend - more like an uncle, actually - just a year or so after getting married. He and my INTP had some significant shared interests, and though they did meet and have a few occasions to talk, they had so much more to say to each other, and I think would have been great friends over the years. It doesn't help that this friend died way too young, lost to suicide. His is the first of the significant deaths I number in my life, as I lost my sole grandmother too young to have much recall of it.
 

Dreamer

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Yes. If you marry, your spouse will never know him except through shared stories. If you have children, they will grow up with one less grandparent. There are all the conversations you will never have, and all the things you will never do together.

Sorry if this is a downer. It is a big part of loss for me - all the potentials that will never be realized. (I guess Ni doesn't mix well with grief.)

I lost a close family friend - more like an uncle, actually - just a year or so after getting married. He and my INTP had some significant shared interests, and though they did meet and have a few occasions to talk, they had so much more to say to each other, and I think would have been great friends over the years. It doesn't help that this friend died way too young, lost to suicide. His is the first of the significant deaths I number in my life, as I lost my sole grandmother too young to have much recall of it.

Oh my. Suicide deaths are incredibly sad for me. Aside from his passing, I know what you mean. The lost potential on that friendship between your INTP and your uncle, the moments they would have shared. I didn't know your uncle of course, but it doesn't matter, I feel as though I feel that pain, simply because that sort of concept is what I grieve for now. My brother was having many of the same issues with my dad passing, but as I told him, the thing that has helped me get through this odeal immensely, is to not focus on the opportunities lost out on, but the moments that we all shared together, and focus on how fantastic they were. Me and my dad shared some great stories, and while I do not tend to look back to memory and revel in past experience as much as I look towards the future and what it is to come, it is in reliving those past experiences and remembering them so well, that my dad's presence can almost be felt physically. I went on a camping trip over the weekend to get out of the city to reflect and to escape socializing of any kind. I climbed atop a large collection of rocks, about 50 feet up or so. Some would say it was dangerous, but a sunset was about to occur, and I knew that being on the top of that mound would afford me the most fantastic views. Upon reaching the top, I was indeed, given a glorious sunset. And while I found the situation sad, as my dad had deeply enjoyed camping and the great outdoors, the memory of him, alongside this very real experience I was feeling, aligned for just a brief moment, and I felt a unity. I felt as though he were there with me watching the sun penetrate the sky and clouds above. He was smiling with me as tears ran down my face. It was a cold day but the sun felt on my face was warm.

For a brief moment in my grieving process, the first moments or so that he had passed, all I could think about were those missed opportunities. But then I felt a shift in my thinking, and that was to revert back to memory, and find a peace in those fantastic memories we DID share.
 

Obfuscate

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i will lead with a pair of poems... the first concerning a narrow miss with my father, and the other concerning my aunt's suicide (she had terminal cancer)... the second feels almost trite when i read it; i can't figure out why that is or what is wrong with it... i bet even if i had managed to put together something excellent, i would think i needed better words...



i know when my aunt was dying it was almost surreal... sometimes i really didn't know how to respond to the things she said... for awhile she lost her mind... i am not sure if that was due to the illness, the stress it caused, or perhaps a combination of the two... she was my mother's only sibling... she told me how lucky i was to have so many siblings... i think a week after she was gone, the worst part became the rest of my family's grief... her parents, her children, and my mom were hit the hardest... a couple of months ago i talked to my brother about it... he felt responsible because he wasn't with her more often... he said her temporary insanity "freaked him out" and he hadn't been able to see her that way... i felt the same way at first... i had lived a block from her for a longtime, but my visits were sporadic... i wasn't bothered by her being nuts in the way he was... it made me want to look out for her... to get her talking so i could monitor her head space... she gave many of her possessions away during that time... she felt compelled to do good for others... she told me she liked having me around because i didn't think she was crazy (funny how that goes)... my mom was with her the night before... she said she had a strong feeling that she shouldn't leave her, but she kept getting calls from home about the mundane details of life (so she did)... i think she must have blamed herself for awhile also... i am not sure if anyone else in my family felt guilt concerning it... the "funny" thing is that she was going to die anyway... i am kind of glad she left the world sane and on her own terms... my mom thinks that had something to do with the timing... that the fear of madness must of had as much to do with it as the progression of the disease... *shrugs*

"so it goes"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i thought i was going to talk about when my great grandmother died (the funeral in the poem above), but talking about my aunt was kind of "tiring", and i am not sure i can really say anything of meaning about it... she was old, and had been waiting "to see Jesus" for many years... she didn't believe in an immediate afterlife (nor do i for that matter)... i will say that due to miscommunication i thought she had died several times before it ever really happened... she was the most genuine/kind person i have ever known...

---------------------------------------------------

i thought about saying something concerning my father, but he is "here" and i don't want to think about it... maybe i will come back to talk about other types of loss later...
 

highlander

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Disappointment and loss are the two emotions I find most confounding and challenging. Not one member on this forum has been immune to loss.

Yes, I find it the most difficult thing I've had to deal with.

I am interested in how you have dealt with: a break-up, loss of a job, a pet dying, something you care about deeply that breaks, a special person moving away, a friendship fading away, losing health, a loved one's death, letting a dream go etc?

I find all this to be pretty unpredictable and actually happening very infrequently in my life. Sometimes I don't go through anything when it seems like I should and other times, I am devastated. I switched jobs once and grieved for a year or more. I had a year long episode of depression after reconnecting with an old girlfriend. A friend of mine committed suicide and it's taken me a couple of years for that not to deeply bother me. Those are the three things I can think of offhand. I was depressed for about a week after Trump won but don't count that :).

What (if anything) has helped you?

The only thing that seems to help is the passage of time. Wish I had a better answer. I took anti-depressants and mood stabilizers during a severe case once (after connecting with the old girlfriend) and that actually did help. I was surprised I needed that.

What have you found helps others?

Maybe time. Same thing.
 

Cloudpatrol

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I will come back later to fill this with responses of more substance. Just wanted to say [MENTION=29287]Obfuscate[/MENTION] [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION], [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] and [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION]: your posts touched me deeply and I am still thinking on them.

:hug:
 

Tennessee Jed

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Disappointment and loss are the two emotions I find most confounding and challenging. Not one member on this forum has been immune to loss.


I am interested in how you have dealt with: a break-up, loss of a job, a pet dying, something you care about deeply that breaks, a special person moving away, a friendship fading away, losing health, a loved one's death, letting a dream go etc?


I have to be honest that this forum has helped immensely with processing the loss of my spouse. I will include a couple images (below) that people sent or posted that have helped me immensely.


But, I hope this thread contains more than just dealing with death.


Please share your experiences about ALL types of losses you have been through or fear experiencing.



What (if anything) has helped you?


What have you found helps others?



I am dedicating this thread to [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION] who is dear to me, and just lost his Father.

The nature of a loss depends on the nature of the original emotional bond.

Emotional bonds are psychological connections of recognition or identity. The following are emotional bonds:

--Identification with a tribe, nationality, or country. For example: "America, right or wrong," "We Baptists are saved and all the rest of you are hell-bound," "Liberals are cool, and all Republicans suck."
--Identification with a concept, idea, or occupation. For example: "The INFP mentality describes me perfectly," "They'll take my gun from me when they remove it from my cold, dead fingers," "I'm an intellectual / athlete / scientist / joker / plumber / philosopher / Crazy Eddy, the used car king of Macon County--c'mon down and I'll make you a deal."
--Identification with an iconic person or group of people. For example: Adulation for Paris Hilton, the Beatles, Karl Marx, Che Guevara, Ayn Rand, favorite actors or singers, etc.
--Bond with cherished objects. For example: Family heirlooms, personal keepsakes, favorite collectibles, personal taste in furnishings and room decor, etc.
--Bond with a favorite place. For example: whatever one considers "home," a favorite vacation spot, identification with a certain environment ("I'm a country boy at heart")
--Bond with a pet
--Friendship
--Passion and love
--And so on.

So how do these bonds form?

The experts say that when we form emotional bonds, we're like plants shooting out tendrils toward objects around us. If the tendrils find a comfortable place (a point of commonality or recognition or identity) to attach on another person, object, or idea, then the tendril can wrap around the other object firmly. If the attachment/tendril/bond is nourished and supported by other bonds, then it can grow strong.

Conversely, if an emotional bond is established but time and events work against the bond, it can atrophy and wither away. If an emotional bond is established and something breaks it suddenly (sudden disillusionment with a favorite idea, being suddenly uprooted from a favorite environment, betrayal by a friend, death of a lover), then a psychological injury occurs at the point of the broken bond and some form of melancholy or mourning is experienced to varying degrees.

Some emotional bonds are actually composites of many different types of bonds simultaneously. For example:

A bond with a cherished family heirloom may consist of all of the following simultaneously: a bond with the object itself; a bond with an idea--that the object somehow encapsulates a part of the family history; a bond of identity--that I'm a caretaker of family history by preserving the heirloom; and so on. Accidentally breaking that heirloom may bring on a feeling of grief much deeper than expected, because of the multitude of bonds suddenly broken all at once.

Similarly, a friendship may start with a single bond: a shared appreciation for a single activity or idea or event. If the friendship never develops beyond that single bond or attachment (the friends never try to establish more bonds or they are unable to find other things in common), then the friendship will remain shallow and tentative. Strong friendships are built from the attachment of multiple bonds: Finding multiple similarities, sharing multiple experiences together, etc. Thus, even very dissimilar people can become friends after enough time together, simply by virtue of sharing experiences together. They say that your closest friends aren't necessarily the people you like the most; they are often simply the people you spend the most time with.

And so on. The nature and quantity of the bonds is even more complex with family and with lovers. But you get the idea of how emotional bonds work.

Anyway, to get back to the subject of loss: If an emotional bond is established and something breaks it suddenly, then a psychological injury occurs at the point of the broken bond and some form of melancholy or mourning is experienced to varying degrees. Mourning and melancholy are part of the healing process. (Traditionally, mourning is a healthy healing process leading to accommodation with the loss and a return to happiness; whereas melancholy is a healing process that "gets stuck" and leaves the mourner in a semi-permanent state of grief and pain.)

If an emotional bond is actually a composite of many smaller bonds over time, then what seems to be one painful rupture or wound may turn out to be many smaller wounds that can individually pain you when random events or associations irritate each individual wound. Hence, you can feel that you've gotten over a split or a death in the short-term, but over the longer-term you continue to get sideswiped by little irruptions of emotion and reminders of the loss at unexpected times or for unexpected reasons.

How do *I* handle this? Well, first off I remember the psychological theory that I expounded above, and I remind myself that these little wounds (torn psychic tendrils) will in fact heal with time. So even if nothing else is done, I can just hunker down, keep myself occupied, and I will in fact get over it.

Second, I just make new friends and keep on partying. For example, I pay attention to the pains that pop up as a result of the passing of a friend: I make an inventory of how many holes or "wounds" the passing of the other person left in my life, and I plot ways to fill those holes or patch those wounds with new events or people. If I used to have coffee with a deceased friend and now I feel depressed whenever coffee times rolls around, then I say, "Fuck it, I need a new coffee partner," and I seek out some new company for coffee-time. Or I drop the coffee ritual altogether and hit the gym instead at that time.

IOW, I use that theory about emotional bonds and the mourning mechanism to steer me through the emotions that pop up and find alternate paths so that I can sidestep those wounds until they've healed a bit. It's like putting up with physical injuries after a bad accident; you accept them, work around them, and keep up your normal routine as best you can. Eventually the wounds heal, you're back to normal, and life goes on. Hence, I "keep on partying."
 

Cloudpatrol

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[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION]

I loved your use of the word “unpredictable”. If I had to choose one word to associate with ‘loss’ that would likely be my choice.

I am so sorry that your friend committed suicide. HUG.


I find the same thing: that things that would seem obvious contenders to naturally bother me, don’t always. Whilst other things that would seem less of a stimulus, DO take me by surprise in intensity.

I think one of the things I loved about your post was that it dealt with losses other than death. It is amazing how deeply the loss of a job can wrap it’s tentacles around.


I do think that time helps also. Even more than the expression ‘time heals’ I like to think that ‘love heals’.

I have met people who are still as rocked by loss 20 years after, and others who are coping well after one.


For example, I know a couple who had a very horrible accident years ago:

They were on a family road trip and the children were in a camper attached to the back of their truck. During an ascent up a mountain road, the camper came unattached and drifted onto the highway. The parents watched as a semi was unable to stop in time and drove through it, killing all of the children.

She told me that her loss feels like a “limb is missing”, but not that life is over. She said time has not healed her at all, that it is as fresh as the day it happened. But, that love has healed immensely. Love from others, her husband and most of all love for herself. Taking the time to get better and not having expectations but just being kind to herself.


I am glad you mentioned anti-depressants as well. A lot of people are leery of taking anything like that, but I equate using medicine to regulate a brain imbalance the same as taking insulin for a body imbalance…
 

Cloudpatrol

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[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]

Of all the people I have lost, the deaths to suicide have been amongst the worst to process. So many unanswered questions left for those who cared for the person.

I am so sorry you lost your friend in that manner. HUG.


I can relate to what you were saying about knowing him and your INTP would have had a significant relationship.

My niece was born just over a year ago and I know my Husband would have adored her. He would have loved teaching her things, would have killed himself laughing over her antics and been so thrilled for my Brother and SIL.

You spoke so well to the “unrealized potential” that also takes acceptance.



[MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION]

Thank you for outlining what the ‘steps’ have gradually been thus far. I ‘feel’ what you are saying about abstract loss and comfort found in memories.

I remember earlier this year I told my Mom “I actually remembered Mr. M today and something hilarious and I could just enjoy it without even a twinge of sadness accompanying it”. Amazingly, I later lost that ability and then regained it.

One of the most interesting things I have learnt about loss is that it is not structured. There ARE distinct emotions we feel (anger, sadness, guilt…) but each person might feel them in different ways at different times. Someone’s first reaction to a death in the family might be anger, while another person is feeling more sadness. Someone might feel anger, think they have dealt with that aspect and then be surprised a year later to be feeling anger again…

It’s a difficult thing because on one hand it would be upsetting if people ignored it, but it also is frustrating if that is the only thing people talk to you about. I really valued friends who let me set the lead or asked kindly if I wanted to talk about it. People here on the forum have been really good that way too, actually.

Sometimes I don’t even feel sad for MY loss of Mr. M, but for HIS loss. His not getting to have the daily simple joys he relished. His not getting to see the things I have become since. His not getting to further enjoy his career moving forward…

I used to think that only the loss of excellent people produced grief. But, I saw my Dad’s reaction to his Mom dying and they had a very challenging relationship. I am thankful that my husband was such a good guy and we got along so well so that I haven’t had to deal with ‘regrets’ along with grief.

I am glad your Dad was a beautiful man also. I KNOW you will help people to learn or see that about him, just by the way you conduct yourself.


[MENTION=29287]Obfuscate[/MENTION]

I really appreciated that you spoke to loss that can happen even with people who are still alive.

I was talking to a friend this week who let me know she attempted suicide at the beginning of this year after a really intense break-up. She explained that she didn’t mentally know how to deal with having a person be an intimate, regular part of life to in one day being N O T H I N G. That she couldn’t rely on him for support emotionally, that he wouldn’t know ‘what she was up to’ or play a further role in her life.

She knew they needed to break up and it was the right thing to do. She just didn’t know where to put the loss.


I really appreciated how you were able to support your aunt in that account. I am so sorry for your losses. Hug.

What a testament to your Great-Grandmother that she was the most genuine person in your human experience :heart:
 
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