Should I Stay Or Should I Go?

[Cloudpatrol]

Why stay in a relationship that is consistently bad or not working?

Why do people kill instead of divorcing?

I am going to tell you specifically about my friends but have always been curious regarding the general psychology of situations like this. I want to understand and am hoping that answers here will help me.


I am friends with a couple who is NOT getting along. I honestly wouldn’t give a f*ck except that I am head over heels for their son.


Why do people whose relationship is in trouble or a rut, decide to deal with it by: having a kid, moving in together or buying a new house?!?


I have a cold, and the other day the 5 year-old son gave me a hug saying: he ‘hoped I hadn’t caught a pathogen’ He is highly intelligent, observant and perceptive.

They genuinely care for him and are good parent’s in many respects (enrolled him in quality education, physically care for & spend time with him). BUT, I also see him getting increasingly thin, intense & starting to develop nervous tics.

I have cautioned them both separately - regarding my own experience with the long-term effects parental warring has on a child - but it has made no impact. They KNOW this from their own experience but still are not making efforts to change.

They say they cannot afford counselling.


She is an quiet, introspective INTJ who grew up in an INTENSELY structured environment until her parent’s finally divorced. He is a talkative, pain-avoidant ENFP who grew up in a zany, inconsistent environment until his Dad eventually came out.

I think it’s clear - even to them - that she was looking to him for variety - and he was looking to her for stability. They hoped marriage would soothe past hurts. Instead of, resolving things inside themselves BEFORE finding a partner. (Paraphrasing her).

But, they don’t value their differences. They snipe at each other: Why can’t he focus on practical things instead of going off in so many different directions? Why can’t she take a joke? Why does she want oral if she won’t ever return the favour? Why isn’t he better with money?

On and on…often in front of the kidlet

But (and here is the crux of why I am asking your opinion) they will NOT break up. Even though, she fantasizes about him dying. Even tho, he feels he will never please her & hates her for making him feel like a failure.

Why not ‘call it’? If both parties KNOW something isn’t fulfilling AND they have really given it a try for years or aren’t willing to negotiate and change?


Another friend told me that “break-ups are painful”. Yes! But, surely not MORE painful than living in an unsatisfactory relationship? No?


Why even go through with marriage in the first place? When the dating stage produces doubts or concerns regarding compatibility (as was the case here)?

 

[1487610420]

clearly they didn't have enough kids to solve all the problems.

 

[cascadeco]

Without getting super in-depth, and not including more extreme disfunctionality and personality disorders/ people pairing up who 'complement' those issues (ie addict with codependent, narcissist with someone who has super low self esteem, stuff like that), I think it can be a)Fear of not finding anyone else (/worry that it won't be different or better with anyone else) - the fear/discomfort of being alone is REAL for most/all people; b)Comfort in familiarity and shared experiences having built up; c)Probably still in some cases love being present, or if no longer, memory of love that once was, and clinging to that. Also once entrenched in a relationship it can be near-impossible to 'see' clearly, as one can be caught up in so many nuances of it. (Which is why it's 'easy' for observers / friends to critique a relationship or wonder why the hell the people are still together, but the people IN it are in a whirlwind of confusion or various emotions pulling one way or the other)

 

[ZNP-TBA]

 

[1487610420]

 

[Norrsken]

Sometimes things get worse before they can get better. Perhaps they should seek a marriage counselor?

 

[Cloudpatrol]

Sometimes things get worse before they can get better. Perhaps they should seek a marriage counselor?

They won't. I have suggested it to them together and separately.

Both think the problems are the other's fault. They won't make themselves vulnerable in front of each other because they say it will 'just get used against them later'. (Is how it was explained to me).

Wow. What a line:

Ransom notes keep falling out your mouth

 

[Trash Panda]

This is why I Dont ever want to get married. Go through the process of hating each other and breaking up emotionally/mentally and THEN go through a messy unhappy divorce as well WITH a kid involved. God. No thank you.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Different reasons for different people, I suppose.

I know an ISFP who stayed in bad relationships past their expiration dates. She'd introduce these guys to her family fairly early in the relationship. After that point, she was determined to make it work. Otherwise, her family would perceive it as a failure. She never figured it out on her own, that she should stop bringing those guys home so soon. Someone had to tell her.

Her experience with "team work" was that she did all the work, and the group got an "A." The expectation was that the relationships would work out the same. She really believed in herself too much, and it contributed to her not letting go so soon.

 

[Poki]

Most bad relationships are that way due to "acceptance creep". they accept shittier and shittier conditions. When you accept something it becomes normalized and you have set a new standard. If you are stuck in a mindset of learning to accept what was once horrible is now bad and what was once bad is now bearable, what was bearable has become accepted.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

Different reasons for different people, I suppose.

I know an ISFP who stayed in bad relationships past their expiration dates. She'd introduce these guys to her family fairly early in the relationship. After that point, she was determined to make it work. Otherwise, her family would perceive it as a failure. She never figured it out on her own, that she should stop bringing those guys home so soon. Someone had to tell her.

Her experience with "team work" was that she did all the work, and the group got an "A." The expectation was that the relationships would work out the same. She really believed in herself too much, and it contributed to her not letting go so soon.

THAT is fascinating. I felt a rush of love for this gal while reading the story even though I don't know her. We are such funny little creatures with such interesting manner's of justification or reasoning on things. I am SO glad someone opened her eyes to the dynamic taking place.

[MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] your answer is insightful and giving me lots of thought. I want to ponder it more before I respond.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

[MENTION=28147]rxr[/MENTION] I understand why you say that.

I honestly am a HUGE fan of marriage. It pained me a little to even make the thread because I truly believe in marriage (ok that word sounds increasingly weirder the more you say it ).

Bad unions ARE like a prison. Emotional upheaval as you say. But, good ones are a source of security, joy, growth, support, loving companionship... I was happy before I was married, but it added a quality to my life that was highly enjoyable and beneficial.

My parent's marriage has been tumultuous at times but they overcame challenges and still work as a team on issues that arise. I admire them for perseverance.

Do you think marriage is to be feared or more, 'not choosing the right person' to marry???

 

[Typh0n]

Perhaps they feel divorce is a greater evil for the child?

 

[Z Buck McFate]

For one, better the devil you know (than the devil you don't). Or, better the bad situation you know than a whole new unfamiliar bad situation. Because at least a little bit of processing has gone into the familiar bad situation, thus making it ever so slightly already closer to resolution than the unfamiliar bad one.

But also, with the phrase "the grass is always greener on the other side"- there are people who can err in the direction of fleeing to the other side, thinking life will be easier on that side, and they leave situations too impulsively when it gets difficult. Then there are people who err in the direction of assuming the grass always only ever looks greener on the other side- while there's wisdom in that idiom, it can be taken too far- and they stay in a bad situation too long. Especially if the trouble escalated slowly- kind of like the way a frog will stay in water until it boils- it can be difficult to know when an appropriate breaking point should be until it's way too late. I stayed in a bad relationship myself for many years, for this very reason.

I'm going to guess maybe both of them know, on some level- if they weren't immediately having these feelings towards each other, then it would just be the same negative feelings surfacing towards the next person. IOW, they could move (away from each other) to find 'greener grass', but instinctively sense they'd just kill the lawn there too.

It's really too bad there's a kid in the middle of this, and that they refuse to seek help. It must be very hard to witness. (At least he's got one adult who admires the crap out of him, and has the internal resources to be able to consider his feelings? Are you close enough to the family to be a strong presence in this kid's life?)

 

[CitizenErased]

My parents have been married for 25 years and it has been like that since I'm 7/8 (according to my brother they stopped fighting after I left, but that's another story, haha), so that means that they spent more than half their marriage resenting each other.

My mother is an ESFJ, the one who wears the trousers. When she looks at you with this face, you know you have to do something or she's never going to stop following you around the house telling you about how wrong you are until you either throw yourself from the roof of the house, threaten her to leave or smash plates and go away. Even then, when you get out of the roof, she keeps whining about the old topic, when you come back home she starts crying about how she does everything for everyone and she's paid with people abandoning her, and whenever you go past one of those shops that sell dinnerware, she points out with a smile how much she likes that set that casually resembles the one you destroyed. She hasn't worked since she had me because the schools of the place she lives make her feel upset.

My dad is an INTJ, the one who does all the work and has to deal with the monster above (yes, I'm a little biased, though my mother is a little more flexible when it comes to things my father is not). He has diabetes and when he has sugar spikes you need to hide because he gets angry about anything. Imagine the combination anger + constant "you do everything wrong".

I think both put up with each other because they've been through a lot of crap together (which is something I actually admire of them), and they're also very old fashioned, so they have the theory that if they have a problem, they shouldn't go with the easy solution of escaping from it, but rather work it out. My mother always tells this cheesy story of Kintsugi (the Japanese tradition of sticking pieces of broken porcelain with gold), in which fixing things makes everything more beautiful and valuable, blah blah.

I also think that they've been through so much together that they wouldn't know how to function separately. An acquaintance of mine said that love was getting used to the presence of someone in such a way that if the other went away, you wouldn't know what to do without them. I told him I feel that way about electrical appliances. I don't know, I have a different definition about love. My parents say they love each other, but it never really shows. Maybe they do and they know the other loves them, but... I don't think getting used to someone can qualify as love. I get used to things that I give for granted and then I stop caring about them. If that happens to me in a relationship, feeling the same way about my boyfriend/husband and my fridge, I really don't know why I'd keep with it.

It reminds me of this movie... I think it's called Love the Coopers.

My brother says my parents don't argue as much now, because they have a lot of free time not arguing with me, so they've started ding activities together, and that way, sort of getting to know things they didn't know about each other. I believe that people are infinite in some way, so I always keep an open mind that I can always learn/discover something new about the person, and by showing the other what I know about myself, the other may dwell on what he knows about himself and then the other person has more knowledge about himself to share. With one of my boyfriends we had the problem that both of us had "chronic boredom", so our solution was to, every weekend, trying together something neither of us had ever done, so once we went diving in a lake to see a submerged forest, we travelled to a city we had never been, we got lost in it, we played new games, etc and worked out really great until we ran out of ideas, hahaha

(Sorry for my extremely unhelpful monologue)

 

[Cloudpatrol]

Perhaps they feel divorce is a greater evil for the child?

They do. I am trying to wrap my head around how this would be so. His relationship is great when with them one-on-one. IN the house he is thrust 24/7 into an environment they boastingly refer to as World War III.

I am not a child of divorce and strongly believe in dual parenting when/if possible. But, I honestly don't know if staying together is servicing his best interests at this point. I truly DON'T know.

Wow, [MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION]. I hadn't thought of that second point you raise.

1st: I agree that impulsively aiming for 'greener pastures' is not wise. I admire perseverance. Also, it's important to give a situation one's EVERYTHING so that there are no regrets or lingering 'what if's' if a relationship does dissolve.


2nd:

I'm going to guess maybe both of them know, on some level- if they weren't immediately having these feelings towards each other, then it would just be the same negative feelings surfacing towards the next person. IOW, they could move (away from each other) to find 'greener grass', but instinctively sense they'd just kill the lawn there too.

Wow. I am blown away by this. I SO sense that this is on the wife's mind. Some of her word's came to me as I was reading your post.

Yeah, that's why I wouldn't even care or be spending any emotion on it - if not for the boy.

I can be a strong presence and have been taking him on more 'adventures' lately. But, I am realistic about what I can achieve. I provide a measure of stability and an occasional reprieve. But, 'who he was born to be' is being changed dramatically on a daily basis. He is not eating well, has rashes and a nervous way of licking his lips repetitively... He's skittish, VERY thoughtful about adult things and increasingly self-critical. It's a strange situation to witness because none of what is involved qualifies as: 'child cruelty'. Yet, it IS very cruel in some respects.

Even if they would refrain from arguing in front of him. Or trying to elicit his favour or opinions on matters so as to 'hurt the other person'...it would change things immensely.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

but... I don't think getting used to someone can qualify as love. I get used to things that I give for granted and then I stop caring about them. If that happens to me in a relationship, feeling the same way about my boyfriend/husband and my fridge, I really don't know why I'd keep with it.

I liked so much about your response but have to get going, so am narrowing my focus on the above.

I agree with you.

I recently read studies that concluded the number one mistake people make when choosing a mate is: looking for familiarity over compatibility. The marriages where the single people had focused more on being compatible than 'being comfortable' were longer and enjoyed a higher level of satisfaction.

Of course that is a generalization and happiness or satisfaction is also dependent on personal needs.

I admire that you and your ex found ways to 'keep things new' and share adventures. It's a good idea whether people suffer 'chronic boredom' or not.

The 'Japanese porcelain' concept IS beautiful!

 

[Poki]

They do. I am trying to wrap my head around how this would be so. His relationship is great when with them one-on-one. IN the house he is thrust 24/7 into an environment they boastingly refer to as World War III.

I am not a child of divorce and strongly believe in dual parenting when/if possible. But, I honestly don't know if staying together is servicing his best interests at this point. I truly DON'T know.

Wow, [MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION]. I hadn't thought of that second point you raise.

1st: I agree that impulsively aiming for 'greener pastures' is not wise. I admire perseverance. Also, it's important to give a situation one's EVERYTHING so that there are no regrets or lingering 'what if's' if a relationship does dissolve.


2nd:

Wow. I am blown away by this. I SO sense that this is on the wife's mind. Some of her word's came to me as I was reading your post.

Yeah, that's why I wouldn't even care or be spending any emotion on it - if not for the boy.

I can be a strong presence and have been taking him on more 'adventures' lately. But, I am realistic about what I can achieve. I provide a measure of stability and an occasional reprieve. But, 'who he was born to be' is being changed dramatically on a daily basis. He is not eating well, has rashes and a nervous way of licking his lips repetitively... He's skittish, VERY thoughtful about adult things and increasingly self-critical. It's a strange situation to witness because none of what is involved qualifies as: 'child cruelty'. Yet, it IS very cruel in some respects.

Even if they would refrain from arguing in front of him. Or trying to elicit his favour or opinions on matters so as to 'hurt the other person'...it would change things immensely.

I have personally got many comments about how much better my son does and how happier he is after the seperarion/divorce. I believe 2 parents are better then one, but ONLY if they work together as a fully functioning unit.

 

[1487610420]

I have personally got many comments about how much better my son does and how happier he is after the seperarion/divorce. I believe 2 parents are better then one, but ONLY if they work together as a fully functioning unit.

 

[Poki]

I got all but #5 down