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Other People's Kids

Jeffster

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Kids aren't that easy to train. I mean, maybe some kids are, and maybe some parents are good at that. I know I'm definitely not. I'm just hangin on for dear life here. I try to be as firm and consistent as I can be with my son, but there's only so much I can do. I'm just thankful he hasn't killed anybody yet.

That I know of, anyway.
 

Tallulah

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Kids aren't that easy to train. I mean, maybe some kids are, and maybe some parents are good at that. I know I'm definitely not. I'm just hangin on for dear life here. I try to be as firm and consistent as I can be with my son, but there's only so much I can do. I'm just thankful he hasn't killed anybody yet.

That I know of, anyway.

I will interject to say that I have met Jeffster's kid, and he is an example of the good kind. :yes:
 

Anja

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Yup, Jeffster, young parent hafta eat a lotta convictions along the way. . .
 

heart

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As a childfree person, I feel no sympathy with parents who feel they cannot handle their children. They ought to have self-evaluated beforehand and abstained from reproducing.

If they cannot train their children not to grab at other people and such, they ought to keep them in the home at all times and not inflict them on society in general.
 

Anja

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I learned fast not to say, "No kid of mine is ever going to do that."
 

Anja

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And, as a childfree person, I'm not surprised that that is an idea of yours, heart.

Perhaps you'd be a parent who couldn't believe that your children had done wrong?
 

Firelie

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Ah, the joys of kids.

I used to live with my uncle years ago and there were two little girls (maybe about 7 or 8 years old) that belonged to one of his cousins that he tolerated hanging out in the household when he was there. They liked to play with his cat, play on his piano and look at his fishes. They knew I lived there and they knew which rooms they weren't allowed to visit.

One day, though, I came home from work and found them in the house alone, exiting my bedroom!

What the fuck? I NEVER EVER would have wandered around through a house that wasn't my own and look through a stranger's stuff.

Anyway, I froze at the end of the hall when I saw them, and they froze coming out of my room with that classic deer-caught-in-the-headlights look on their faces. So I say, "Don't go in my room..." and they're silent for a second before one says, "We weren't." I'm like "What, do you think I'm BLIND? DON'T go in my room, got that?" ... and the two of them ran. It was pretty awesome.
 

heart

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And, as a childfree person, I'm not surprise that that is an idea of yours, heart.

Why should Whatever have to put up with other people's children grabbing at her in public?

My parents were able to train me to act like a human being in public and not an out of control monkey and believe me they had some serious dysfunctions, but at least they could teach me the basics of getting along in a store.

I have no sympathy for people who cannot train their children to keep their hands off other people. I mean this is simple, basic boundary respect. If they cannot manage this type of basic parenting, they had some serious delusions about their fitness for the job.

Perhaps you'd be a parent who couldn't believe that your children had done wrong?

If I didn't bother to try and train my children and I allowed them to run free and loose with other people's persons and belongings, I'd deserve whatever criticism was pointed my way.

I don't even get where you are connecting the two points here. I was saying that people who either cannot or will not bother to properly train their children have done those children and society at large a disservice by having those children. Now where in that philosophy does your logic come up with that I'd think my children could do no wrong? My children could only understand the world as I taught them to understand it, their mistakes would be my responsiblity to teach them to learn from.

But most of this behavior is habitual for these children. They've been taught no basic respect for others.

Like my neighbor, I am telling her that her child is invading my privacy and also playing in an area on MY property that could be dangerous for him and she can barely concentrate on my words, she's so fatigued (or drunk or high?) that she's fading in and out, irritated. Tells me that she's lucky when he'll obey on *important* issues! This person is not able to cope with parenthood. This person should have self-evaluated before hand. Period. End of discussion.
 

Tallulah

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I think a lot of it is that parents love their kids so much that they think that everything their kid does is cute, so they assume the rest of the world does, too. I am afraid that would be my Achilles heel as a parent, though I don't have kids now. I have a feeling I'd just think they were so darn great and/or funny that I wouldn't be as strict as I should be. Which is funny, because other people's kids can really get on my nerves.
 

Jeffster

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I will interject to say that I have met Jeffster's kid, and he is an example of the good kind. :yes:

You're just saying that because he was focused on his Gameboy, rather than on stabbing you to death with his fork. :ninja:


As a childfree person, I feel no sympathy with parents who feel they cannot handle their children. They ought to have self-evaluated beforehand and abstained from reproducing.

If they cannot train their children not to grab at other people and such, they ought to keep them in the home at all times and not inflict them on society in general.

:yim_rolling_on_the_
 

miss fortune

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hey- I wouldn't have been able to get away with being able to behave like the little brats that I encounter in public every time I want some food to cook! I really have to wonder how parents can allow thier kids to behave like that- I certainly wasn't allowed to annoy strangers, or even make loud noises in public!
 

heart

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hey- I wouldn't have been able to get away with being able to behave like the little brats that I encounter in public every time I want some food to cook! I really have to wonder how parents can allow thier kids to behave like that- I certainly wasn't allowed to annoy strangers, or even make loud noises in public!

Yeah, I know. It's unreal. Of course my experiences haven't been in public places. Mine have been with friends children, in-laws and neighbors.

I am also curious why Jeffster would put up the rolf icon to the idea that people who cannot handle children shouldn't have them. It's already been established that Jeffster isn't the kind of parent being discussed. So why be defensive about the indefensible?

Shouldn't parents be expected to teach their offspring the most basic boundary respect? :huh: What's wrong with saying if they can't they need to keep those children at home until peer pressure at school alone finally forces the child into becoming more cognizant of normal human behavior?
 

Magic Poriferan

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hey- I wouldn't have been able to get away with being able to behave like the little brats that I encounter in public every time I want some food to cook! I really have to wonder how parents can allow thier kids to behave like that- I certainly wasn't allowed to annoy strangers, or even make loud noises in public!

Incidentally, I was allowed, and now I'm a very timid, introverted, and undemanding person... Maybe that's the trick! You have to let them vent it while they're kids.
 

Anja

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I think that you are okay in not wanting to be grabbed at by others' children. That's offensive. And if the parents don't have sense enough to intervene, whatever, I don't see it as rude at all if you draw strong boundaries.

I don't expect any sympathy, heart, for making a case for understanding of the situation a parent is in in public. And I don't expect you to understand the issue, being childfree. But as an NFP I am surprised that you wouldn't have more openness to an effort to understand the concept that children are really just little grown-ups. And like us, have a resistance to people telling them what to do.

If a parent occasionlly administers a swift swat to the butt at home they may hesitate to do the same in public with the child abuse police always alert to misjudge such an act.

It's a tricky thing to manage. Even the most dedicated parents make mistakes. I believe you are taking an extreme case scenario and not looking at all the gradations that exist.
 

Anja

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Incidentally, I was allowed, and now I'm a very timid, introverted, and undemanding person... Maybe that's the trick! You have to let them vent it while they're kids.


Hah! I had an older parent friend who once answered my question about this by saying, "You should let them win a few battles now and then in order to win the war."

Turned out to be good advice.
 

heart

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I don't expect any sympathy, heart, for making a case for understanding of the situation a parent is in in public. And I don't expect you to understand the issue, being childfree. But as an NFP I am surprised that you wouldn't have more openness to an effort to understand the concept that children are really just little grown-ups. And like us, have a resistance to people telling them what to do.

First off, if those children were in truth "little grown-ups" they'd have proper judgment and they would respect others boundaries on their own. Just the fact that they are out of control and not respecting other people totally disproves your logic here.

Basic child psychology doesn't support the idea that children are simply "little grown-ups" and in fact this is sort of a dangerous idea. Children need direction and teaching from adults. It's a birthright. Our growing brains become hardwired from the parenting (or lack of it)that we recieve. If a parent cannot provide this either out of disability or laziness they shouldn't have a child to begin with.

Yes, there is Oppositional Definant Disorder but if you read about it, it comes about through emotional neglect.

Being NFP doesn't mean that my mind is so open that I'll just accept any idea on it's face value because it feels good.

If a parent occasionlly administers a swift swat to the butt at home they may hesitate to do the same in public with the child abuse police always alert to misjudge such an act.

Is it really necessary to swat a child on the butt to teach basic good habits and manners? My sister never swatted her children and they had good manners. An in-law is constantly swatting at his children for every little thing in public and they act like monsters. At home, he's engrossed in the computer games and allows them to run wild. It's more about consistancy and overall habits. (This is the child who spat at the other table guests continually during a meal)

It's a tricky thing to manage. Even the most dedicated parents make mistakes. I believe you are taking an extreme case scenario and not looking at all the gradations that exist.

I was speaking more from my own experiences where parents are sitting there watching their child tear things up or refusing to take their boundry violations seriously. That's got nothing to do with dedicated parents making mistakes (love your extreme hyperboyle there!) it has to do with long-term, habitual outlook and parenting approach.

** Where in this discussion did you get that people were criticising occassional "mistakes" in "dedicated parents" ? :huh:
 

Bella

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I think that you are okay in not wanting to be grabbed at by others' children. That's offensive. And if the parents don't have sense enough to intervene, whatever, I don't see it as rude at all if you draw strong boundaries.

I don't expect any sympathy, heart, for making a case for understanding of the situation a parent is in in public. And I don't expect you to understand the issue, being childfree. But as an NFP I am surprised that you wouldn't have more openness to an effort to understand the concept that children are really just little grown-ups. And like us, have a resistance to people telling them what to do.

If a parent occasionlly administers a swift swat to the butt at home they may hesitate to do the same in public with the child abuse police always alert to misjudge such an act.

It's a tricky thing to manage. Even the most dedicated parents make mistakes. I believe you are taking an extreme case scenario and not looking at all the gradations that exist.

This is one of the most noticeable differences between America and most, no all, other countries. Children are treated like grown-ups here and I don't think it's working out too well.
 

Jae Rae

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Some parents decide ahead of time not to raise their kids the way they were raised. This results in their letting their kids run free and not restraining, criticizing or correcting them because they were raised by harsh, punitive, critical parents.

Others take a more "it takes a village to watch over my kids" attitude. I had a friend who told me she never corralled her kids in public places, like at the airport. Whether this was because she wanted them to run around and get rid of some energy before they boarded, I don't know.

When parents stand by and chat while their kids run around, bump into adults and otherwise make mischief, I have to wonder if they're just postponing the moment when they reluctantly must go home (or in the car or on a plane) with their out-of-bounds children.

But I'd like to point out one thing - children aren't small adults, but they are SMALL. It's possible that a kid mistook Whatever for his mother and grabbed her legs thinking they were his mom's. It's a long way from the floor to a toddler's mom's face and more than one kid has mistaken me for her mother.
 

heart

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This is one of the most noticeable differences between America and most, no all, other countries. Children are treated like grown-ups here and I don't think it's working out too well.

Yeah, because it is based on irrational nonsense.

Some parents decide ahead of time not to raise their kids the way they were raised. This results in their letting their kids run free and not restraining, criticizing or correcting them because they were raised by harsh, punitive, critical parents.

Both approaches seem cruel. I am seeing several examples around me of parents being too lax and their children are developing all sorts of troubles.
 

Anja

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I think that's true, Bella. Someone else here mentioned treating children as equals. The other day in a big-box store I observed a woman allowing her child to order her about and speak to her in an impertinent manner. I thought, "Wow. That mommy isn't doing her work at home, for sure."
 
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