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Other People's Kids

Anja

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It is irritating (and sad) that we sometimes feel we have to step in when others in our space aren't doing their part to make it comfortable for us. But it is a fact of life, whether we are being inconvenienced by others' children, pets or their own annoying bad habits, that we live with all kinds of other people and we will sometimes be unhappy about that.

The satisfying truth is we don't HAVE to do anything. We can walk away and save our energy for more important things if that will make us happier.

It's a choice!

So my thought is to either do it because it's what you want to do and then not complain about doing what you want to do. Or don't do it and don't allow it to affect your peace of mind. .

Makes it simple from my perspective.
 

colmena

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Why do parents throw a fit when you ask the child who's pestering you where thier parents (occasionally out of sight) are? :huh:

I wouldn't be half as annoyed if I wasn't considered rude by people for this :dry:

It likely sounds a passive-aggressive attack. It might be difficult for a parent to respond to calmly if this is how it's taken.

It might be worth bending down to the child and calmly asking him/her to not tug on your leg. If the parent is nearby, they ought to step in after this. If they don't, I'd proceed to ask where the parent is and have a chat.
 

Xander

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You're not rude, they're exercising their projection muscles.

*My kids not doing anything wrong*
*Why are you making my child out to be a villain*
*Well what can I do about it anyway*

Oh and my sister has sworn before not to return to my house. I upset her son by raising my voice about him playing with the cat's litter tray. Apparently we shouldn't have had it somewhere he could reach. The fact that he was allowed to roam the house unsupervised whilst my sister slept is irrelevant.. apparently...
 

Ivy

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Kids are kids.

You simply can't take one isolated incidence and say you know what goes on with some random kid, their parents' abilities, etc.. Too many variables.


Their brains are different and growing and forming new connections, their sleep drastically affects their behaviour (imagine getting the energy to get through the day PLUS grow your body... if they get one bad night, it shows the next day), environmental factors, stress levels of interpersonals of grown-ups they live with who don't tell them things because they're too young...

My sweetheart INFP brother, now 17 and the most perfect guy I could dream up as a brother, was a terror when he was 6 and on medication for an illness; the medication affected his behaviour. Literally, no joke, my dad had to teach me how to pin him down for my safety even though I was 5 years older.

There's nothing wrong with respectfully telling a kid what's cool/not cool, but seriously... they don't grow up in vacuums. They have to grow somewhere, just like we all did.

Great post. I bolded the part I want to respond to specifically. This was my poorly-made point in posting the anecdote of my son getting all up in some lady's grill at World Market. It was very annoying, I'm sure, and it's possible she thought "geez, what an ill-behaved brat. Too bad his parents let him run wild, he thinks he owns the place." But she's wrong. I used to think the worst of parents making crappy choices in public places; after all, I was an awesome nanny and I managed to keep the child I was responsible for reigned in at all times.

It was not until AFTER I became a parent that I realized that once the baby is born, you're on the hook, and you don't get off the hook... well, in some ways, ever. Not that I mind being on the hook, but it is very different from being in charge of a child as their nanny or sitter or sister. It's a matter of setting policy rather than simply carrying it out for a few hours a day. And you've got 18+years to be in charge of another human being at all times. You're bound to screw up at some point, and you can bet that there will be a store (or school, or playground, or family) full of people judging you when you do.
 

substitute

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I'm with you Ivy and co, I don't judge parents by an isolated incident that I happen to see in public of their kids' behaviour. I know my kids act up at times and I've often thought to myself, y'know, at what point do people quit blaming parents for every choice a kid makes, and start acknowledging that this person is a human being with their own mind and personality and you as the parent do not have radio control over them?

I've known middle class kids brought up with all the right values and stuff, and yet they've become drug addicts and alcoholics. I was neglected and couldn't really have had much worse of an upbringing than I had and yet I'm considered a pillar of the community (embarrassingly! lol). At some point a person starts to make their own choices and you can't keep on blaming parents all the damn time. I've brought my kids up with strong discipline, I've never given into tantrums and never tolerated bad behaviour, always taught them consideration for others and honesty and stuff. And yet still they sometimes lie, sometimes fight, sometimes do the opposite of what they're told, sometimes act up in public, sometimes embarrass the hell outta me.

Especially when kids go to school most of the day in most cases, the influence of the parent, the older the kid gets, becomes weaker and weaker and just a drop in an ocean of other influences.

So yeah, there's no use in judging the parents when kids get on your nerves in public.

HOWEVER as I said earlier, I still reserve the right to tell a kid to get the hell outta my way or look where they're damn well going if they run full tilt at me in a store yelling and stuff. I don't see it as any reflection on the parents, it's just my instinctive response to someone pissing me off. I'd do the same if it were an adult.

But unless they really are a pain in the ass I mostly likely hardly notice.
 

Ivy

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I'm with you Ivy and co, I don't judge parents by an isolated incident that I happen to see in public of their kids' behaviour. I know my kids act up at times and I've often thought to myself, y'know, at what point do people quit blaming parents for every choice a kid makes, and start acknowledging that this person is a human being with their own mind and personality and you as the parent do not have radio control over them?

I've known middle class kids brought up with all the right values and stuff, and yet they've become drug addicts and alcoholics. I was neglected and couldn't really have had much worse of an upbringing than I had and yet I'm considered a pillar of the community (embarrassingly! lol). At some point a person starts to make their own choices and you can't keep on blaming parents all the damn time. I've brought my kids up with strong discipline, I've never given into tantrums and never tolerated bad behaviour, always taught them consideration for others and honesty and stuff. And yet still they sometimes lie, sometimes fight, sometimes do the opposite of what they're told, sometimes act up in public, sometimes embarrass the hell outta me.

Especially when kids go to school most of the day in most cases, the influence of the parent, the older the kid gets, becomes weaker and weaker and just a drop in an ocean of other influences.

So yeah, there's no use in judging the parents when kids get on your nerves in public.

HOWEVER as I said earlier, I still reserve the right to tell a kid to get the hell outta my way or look where they're damn well going if they run full tilt at me in a store yelling and stuff. I don't see it as any reflection on the parents, it's just my instinctive response to someone pissing me off. I'd do the same if it were an adult.

But unless they really are a pain in the ass I mostly likely hardly notice.

Totally agree- I would have no issue with telling strange children to stop bothering me. I don't remember the last time it happened, though. I have had to tell kids to stop terrorizing my kids at the park or whatever. Sometimes it probably is the parents' fault, but I'm not comfortable assuming that based on a single interaction. And sometimes, I know because I know families like this, the parents are responsible and do everything they're supposed to do, but the kids act wretchedly anyway. Some people are just jerks, and I don't think they always magically become jerks when they grow up. Sometimes they were always a jerk.
 

Totenkindly

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...But the SPs, as discussed in Alicia's freedom topic, want to fight EVERYTHING. The Introverts will fight much more quietly, but still fight and rebel. And the extroverts are most likely the ones bothering whatever in the store, because they are the hardest to get to cooperate.

Definitely.

The SP-style children are not necessarily trying to be "bad" or "disobedient" (although any child can choose to rebel, surely).

They generally just learn and grow by challenging boundaries on their freedom. They also excel at maximizing freedom by exploiting loopholes -- although to them it seems to be more of finding a way to flex the rules to accommodate their desires, it's like a game and they feel good when they find those weak spots in the rules.

My getting pissed and taking it personally each time my SP kid pulled that with me was the wrong approach. Once I figured out what his motivations were, I could tailor my style with him and life got MUCH better... and he acted out far less, ironically. I was actually contributing to the problem, rather than resolving it.

whatever said:
Why do parents throw a fit when you ask the child who's pestering you where thier parents (occasionally out of sight) are? I wouldn't be half as annoyed if I wasn't considered rude by people for this

As another note, how you say something also impacts how it comes across.

I have no idea how you typically express these feelings in the situation you describe, although if you sound as pissy then as you have here when you've vented (note that it doesn't bother me personally, I'm simply describing the tone of your posts), I'm sure that doesn't help matters.

Delivery impacts perception.
 

INA

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Some people are just jerks, and I don't think they always magically become jerks when they grow up. Sometimes they were always a jerk.

Perhaps, but let's get real here. There's a strong correlation between poor parenting and kids' misbehaving. I don't think people can wash their hands of their kids' behavior entirely. I agree that judging from a single instance is not a sensible approach. But you can try to raise a child with the right values but do so poorly and have a right monster. Doesn't mean you were a monster yourself, just not great at parenting, in terms of effectiveness.
 

Ivy

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Perhaps, but let's get real here. There's a strong correlation between poor parenting and kids' misbehaving. I don't think people can wash their hands of their kids' behavior entirely. I agree that judging from a single instance is not a sensible approach. But you can try to raise a child with the right values but do so poorly and have a right monster. Doesn't mean you were a monster yourself, just not great at parenting, in terms of effectiveness.

No, I don't disagree that it can be poor parenting. I just don't think it always is, and I'm not comfortable reaching the conclusion that it is based on a single interaction. (Things like heart's experiences, where she knows the families over time, would be more likely to bring me to that conclusion than a kid acting up in a store.)

And sometimes, even if it's poor parenting, it's not a matter of someone just being bad at it. Sometimes it's trying to fit a child into a one-size-fits-all approach. My two kids are as different as night and day. If I raised Thing 2 the exact same way I have been raising Thing 1 I think he would be a psychopath. He needs much stricter control. And if I had raised Thing 1 with the strict controls I have to use on Thing 2, her spirit would have been dulled and I don't think she would trust us as much as she does now.
 

Totenkindly

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No, I don't disagree that it can be poor parenting. I just don't think it always is, and I'm not comfortable reaching the conclusion that it is based on a single interaction. (Things like heart's experiences, where she knows the families over time, would be more likely to bring me to that conclusion than a kid acting up in a store.)

Exactly. My disagreements here are based on the intensity of some of the assertions being made from limited incidents in particular environments.

(i.e., the judgment being formed is not based on a broad and diverse survey, a lot of other possibilities for behavior are being ignored).
 

substitute

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My two kids are as different as night and day. If I raised Thing 2 the exact same way I have been raising Thing 1 I think he would be a psychopath. He needs much stricter control. And if I had raised Thing 1 with the strict controls I have to use on Thing 2, her spirit would have been dulled and I don't think she would trust us as much as she does now.

Totally. And if you raise Thing 1 the way they need to be raised, then they're always bitching about how it's not fair and Thing 2 gets away with stuff and whatever, whilst Thing 2 complains that you invest more attention in Thing 1 (because they need stricter supervision)... this is what I've got goin' on too...

Sometimes when I get people giving me those looks that say "give me that kid! I'll sort her out in no time!" I feel like saying "Sure thing! I could use the break, and I can't wait to see your face when you have to admit you were wrong!"
 

Anja

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Many good points since last I visited. A very interesting discussion. My ENFP Thing and ISTP Thing needed two different approaches. I learned as much as I could, did as much as I could and let love and time take care of the rest.

My bottom line remains -
Either intervene and move on or don't and move on.

If you choose to intervene, take time to look at yourself and how you go about intervening to make it the most effective intervention you can manage.

And in either case, for your own well-being's sake, don't haul the uncomfortable feelings about the situation around with you. Because it is never other people or their children who will ultimately matter to you as much as your own feelings and mind-state.
 

Anja

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Rereading my last post.

HAH!

In mind of you who are actively parenting - It's much easier in retrospect!

ENFP THING? Read "Borderline."
ISTP THING? Read "Conduct Disorder."

It was quite a learning experience for all involved. But, not to slight the retrospective, learning as much as one can, doing as much as one can and letting love and time take care of the rest is good advice - Promise. Focus more on one's own self. Do it! You've got to be well and strong for the crises.
 

INA

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It was quite a learning experience for all involved. But, not to slight the retrospective, learning as much as one can, doing as much as one can and letting love and time take care of the rest is good advice - Promise. Focus more on one's own self. Do it! You've got to be well and strong for the crises.

like OMGWTFBBQ my son is killing and eating people how did this happen?!?
 

Anja

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:hi: Hee. No, it was worse than that!

You are addressing a member of the Parent Survivor's Group. :heart:
 

Valiant

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It's funny, in a larger perspective. China is the only country that I know of that actually does something about the over-population of earth. To solve the problem, maybe there should be a limit of 2-3 children per couple. And those who are allowed to get kids should have undergone some serious psychological testing and be more or less without major issues, plus a little mandatory pedagogue training. And seriously, junkies and alcoholics, convicts etc shouldn't ever have a chance. Don't take me literally, use common sense. With "convicts" I mean violent people, organized criminals etc. And with alcoholists and junkies I don't mean the guy who smoked weed a couple of times in college.

This pretty much goes for my views on who should have a right to drive a car, too. Way too many fucktards out there who get people killed. My best friends mom died because of it. And I happened to be nearby and see it. I hate people who drive drunk.
 

substitute

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YLJ though I don't really agree with what you're suggesting, I have often pondered on the inconsistency of all the hoops that prospective adoptive parents have to jump through compared to how easy it is for anyone at all to become natural parents...
 

Valiant

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Definitely. I mean, not even gay people may adopt kids. That is a damn small issue compared to the general hillbilly who comes home drunk and beats his kids or the single mom who can't pay for a decent place to live and/or food.
 

heart

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Exactly. My disagreements here are based on the intensity of some of the assertions being made from limited incidents in particular environments.

(i.e., the judgment being formed is not based on a broad and diverse survey, a lot of other possibilities for behavior are being ignored).

If a parent comes to my home and refuses to correct their child and lets them run basically wild, I think I am pretty safe in assuming that parent is overwhelmed by the basics of parenthood. All I am saying is that I had the presence of mind to self-evaulate myself as far as if I wanted or was able to stand and deliever as a parent and I have no sympathy for others who could not/ would not do the same.

I know these children, there's no diagnosis looming that would prevent the parent from saying "hey don't do that" on a consistant basis.

About the neighbors and their children, well, I really don't know what the child's possible conditions were but if he were so out of control that he could not comprehend to stay out of neighbor's yard, then what was he doing out at all hours of the day unsupervised, why was his mother mentally comatose when I tried to speak to her about it? Why was she so flip?

The only thing about Whatever's situation is that parents are acting too defensive when she asked them to control their child who was bothering her, as if being asked to tell their child not to grab on her was unreasonable. There's nothing unreasonable about Whatever's request.

Is Whatever expected to be a saint or pyschologist every time she goes out and know the exact words and phrases said parents will accept? It seems to me that basic politeness and common respect is all that is needed when alerting parents that their child is running wild.
 

Anja

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Well, I don't think there is an intelligent, thoughtful person in the world who hasn't seen what is going on all around us and wondered what the solution is short of genocide.

So I appreciate and understand that viewpoint. I suppose this place is as good as any to vent. Actually it's giving me an idea for a weekend thread and, if I can encourage the thinkers out there from battering me half to death about what the point of my thread is, maybe I'll drop one. ;)

Sometimes I think Mother Earth is standing poised to shake us all off like a bunch of parasites and start over.

Might be the best solution at this point of exponentially growing population and dysfunction. Argh.
 
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