Is this sexism of some kind ?

[S16M4]

Cunningham's Law - Meta

 

[Coriolis]

I know this as a intuitive fact but my life experiences are telling me another story.


For example:

My mother is depressed on some way and has ADHD of some kind.
I know girls that became succesful and even famous but they see therapists because of what is going on.
I know people that have sisters that ended in a mental institution at some point in their life.
My grandmother was so paranoid that she locked the doors behind her around the house, she always had a pack of keys around.
My other grandmother was violent and abusive at time.
I had a female teacher that was giving random F grades simply because a student reminds her of the student with which she had sex with ... and they caught her.
My aunt seems to be alcoholic.
I met many co-workers of my mother ... none of them are completely round up personas.
I had many female teachers that were emotionally/verbaly abusive to the point that I was thinking about beating the crap out of them.
The story of my grand grandmother that was left with unfinieshed house, 4 children and goat was pretty sad.
I knew a girl that called me on the phone and she just cried about something ... in the end I just ended all relations.
I was on a date with a girl that turn out to be unstabile and she used to be an addict.
Back in high school one girl was after me, but I didn't want her since she was generally messed up and running away from home.
I know a household that is women only but they are completely cut-throat to each other.
I have a neighbour that is obviously depressed and miserable due to fact that her income sucks and because her husband left her.
I knew a girl that just couldn't comit to a relationship after 3 months. She was just too afraid to do it because of many internal reasons.
I knew a girl that had schizophrenia and brags that she will gather all personality disorders in her life.
I knew a girl that is uncomfortable with dressing in anyway other than "obviously sluty".
I had a teacher that used to run when she had to walk during the night, since she was afraid of the dark.
I knew a girl that was covered with tattoos and running from her anxiety all the time.
There are plenty of women that are afraid of their own imperfections to the point that this is becoming a serious problem.
I knew a girl that is agressive or very private because of her skin desease.
I know many women that are generally neurotic and paranoid.

Most of these things have nothing to do with inherent properties of women, and everything to do with how women are treated, and how society is organized. It's sort of like saying blacks have it harder when you are living in a society as the US once was where blacks were enslaved.

You may be right that the troubles in your part of the world have fallen more heavily on women for whatever reasons. Your country would hardly be unique in this respect, and it is a problem requiring remedy in many places. Right now you are convolving these broader social issues with your own situation as a man looking (or so I presume) for female companionship and a romantic relationship. It is one thing to understand how this present reality influences your own experiences, and quite another to derive sweeping yet unsupported conclusions about women as a group.

In practical terms, you will need either to move to a society that has been kinder on women, and on men as well, where the women you meet are much less likely to have been subject to these extra stressors; or you need to resign yourself to a limited pool of compatible people and make the best of your current situation. There are a couple INTJ type descriptions around that say we have the most luck attracting potential dates/partners when we stop trying, relax, and just be ourselves. Of course one must at least be around members of one's preferred sex for this to work, but that is as deliberate as one needs to be.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Most of these things have nothing to do with inherent properties of women, and everything to do with how women are treated, and how society is organized. It's sort of like saying blacks have it harder when you are living in a society as the US once was where blacks were enslaved.

You may be right that the troubles in your part of the world have fallen more heavily on women for whatever reasons. Your country would hardly be unique in this respect, and it is a problem requiring remedy in many places. Right now you are convolving these broader social issues with your own situation as a man looking (or so I presume) for female companionship and a romantic relationship. It is one thing to understand how this present reality influences your own experiences, and quite another to derive sweeping yet unsupported conclusions about women as a group.

In practical terms, you will need either to move to a society that has been kinder on women, and on men as well, where the women you meet are much less likely to have been subject to these extra stressors; or you need to resign yourself to a limited pool of compatible people and make the best of your current situation. There are a couple INTJ type descriptions around that say we have the most luck attracting potential dates/partners when we stop trying, relax, and just be ourselves. Of course one must at least be around members of one's preferred sex for this to work, but that is as deliberate as one needs to be.

I know, however when you have to go into this that claim doesn't make too much of a difference in the terms of dynamics or outcomes.


I am aware of the fact that I am mixing social issues with dating but I do so because that has large and obvious consequences. 52% in unemployment rate of young people can have huge impact on dating scene, if anything simply because happy people will be in short supply. Especially if you add growing up during the war time, disfunctional education system, possibly disfunctional family and the fact that those that work don't work as they imagined. (since until very recently economy was in toilet for decades). The only trully good side was that our country is pretty since it was never properly industialized. I am posting here exactly because I often want to get away from the "local atmosphere", while my generation is emmigrating in mass (especially educated people ... so they are in short supply).


I can agree that I am overthinking this ... since I obviously am. On the other hand I don't agree that stop trying is good choice. I am doing this for years and am preoccupied with other things ... and nothing happens. I simply have to place myself more around women or engage directly, if anything simply since I am a man and therefore by local customs I am the one that has to initiate everything. Plus I am strucured person and therefore it is unlikely that something will just happen if I don't push/nudge from my side. But to be honest I am afraid of being draged into something personal but disfunctional, especially since that happend to me so many times. However all of that doesn't change anything if I want to change my unexistant love life. I am Sx last but I still have desires.

 

[geedoenfj]

Well I generally try to avoid such topics, it leads to comparisons, men vs women, which I don't believe is the mentality we must go about in life, other people see men and women, I see a family, a family members should take care of each other, should sacrifice for each other, should have mercy for one another, each one of us lived in a womb of a woman for 9 months, when we were just fetuses, women are mothers, sisters, daughters of men..
I don't think your tone is sexist, I think it's more sympathetic, however, I think we all suffer in this life, men and women, you pointed out why you are sympathetic towards women, men have their own kind of struggles in life, men are more likely to get injured and killed during wars and during unstable times, more likely to choose dangerous career paths and exhausting jobs, they're expected to not show weakness or complain about abuse, hold themselves together no matter how difficult the situation is, most political prisoners are men, most combatants are men etc.
Whatever your observation of women, I think most women can take care of themselves, but need a man to care of them as well, I believe that each person should have a chance to prove themselves and achieve their dreams or goals, and each person has the right to be taken care of by other people, each person must be willing to sacrifice a little bit for the benefit of others..
We are a family, I think that's what we're missing in this world

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think this is perhaps where this thread should be retired. I came to peace with fact that I will just have to try more times if I want to have what I desire. It is possible that I will get wrecked a few more times but I just desire to have a love life for a change.

 

[misfortuneteller]

It seems to me you dislike women. Why is that?

he can't get laid and i'm not just saying that. he literally made a thread about it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

he can't get laid and i'm not just saying that. he literally made a thread about it.

Wrong. You are stereotyping.

I could get laid 15 years ago since the girl was throwing herself under my feet ... and I rejected her over and over. Even last weekend one girl tried to attract me and I just rolled my eyes and left, causing "obvious" discomfort on her side (and she even was pretty good looking). It is just that because of experiences I have distrust towards women and I have little faith thowards their worldviews or judgement ... in general. Therefore I keep distance.


My problem is going far beyond getting laid, and I will just have to cut it with someone I find potentially worthy. There is no real alternative.

 

[Betty Blue]

Ok, that was to some degree overstatement. (and i was thinking about if it will come this way)
I don't mind at all a random thought or two that will come out of this but for me it is impotant that I start to talk EXTERNALLY about this. What starts/manifests as the start the paradigm shift, I understand that some people don't get this but I just can't help myself over this. As I said: this is about starting to do, not thinking ... I am already overthinking this as it is.


I never said that women are trully a problem ... it is just that so many of them here are depressed on some way due to the objective conditions. However I just have to go into this and what happens happens.

It's interesting to me that you have such an internal war over this. You have started threads before only to tell people you didn't want to hear opinions and have advice... yet if you just want to externalise you could blog about it. Starting threads is for discussions... so you clearly want discussion yet you get freaked out and turn off.

To me it seems you do want opinions but you are very delicate, interestingly it's a quality you seem to only identify in women.

 

[Virtual ghost]

It's interesting to me that you have such an internal war over this. You have started threads before only to tell people you didn't want to hear opinions and have advice... yet if you just want to externalise you could blog about it. Starting threads is for discussions... so you clearly want discussion yet you get freaked out and turn off.

To me it seems you do want opinions but you are very delicate, interestingly it's a quality you seem to only identify in women.

That is because I know that in the end it all up to me to do something about it, while on the other hand people don't seem to grasp the degree of my alienation. Some sympathy would help a lot more than trying to prove a point of some kind. My problem has become a problem exactly because haven't received any gentle feedback from women. Therefore when I see that I will not get that I just walk away out of the threads.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Wrong. You are stereotyping.

I could get laid 15 years ago since the girl was throwing herself under my feet ... and I rejected her over and over. Even last weekend one girl tried to attract me and I just rolled my eyes and left, causing "obvious" discomfort on her side (and she even was pretty good looking). It is just that because of experiences I have distrust towards women and I have little faith thowards their worldviews or judgement ... in general. Therefore I keep distance.


My problem is going far beyond getting laid, and I will just have to cut it with someone I find potentially worthy. There is no real alternative.

What is some "potentially worthy" person (or woman) to you ?

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

That is because I know that in the end it all up to me to do something about it, while on the other hand people don't seem to graps the degree of my alienation. Some sympathy would help a lot more than trying to prove a point of some kind. My problem has become a problem exactly because haven't received any gentle feedback from women. Therefore when I see that I will not get that I just walk away out of the threads.

You're an enneatype 8, right ? So that kind of attitude is part of your self-defense. Everybody has been hurt or disappointed, and then we protect ourselves with a big mask and a close heart.
You need to find peace with women around you by working on yourself first. Fighting AGAINST isn't the way to follow every single minute of your life...

It often leads to dead-ends or, in the best case scenario to more and more battles...

 

[Virtual ghost]

What is some "potentially worthy" person (or woman) to you ?

That it doesn't accuses me of kind of horrible things just because I am naturally very analytical, thought and disciplined.
That it is not afraid to show affection or return it.
That it shares or at least tolerates my interests.
That it is not alcoholic or addict of some kind.
That the person is mentally stabile and generally trustworthy.


I trully don't desire anything special but I had a bad luck that I didn't manage to find this and I was aliented, ignored, sabotaged and emotionally abused by women all my life, to the point I became apathic about them.


However since now I am finally in good position to changed this horrible trend I am thinking about it. Althought I replied to that post that is few days old simply because it is totally wrong. This isn't about getting laid but respect.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

People don't have to hate women to be sexist. There is no "unicorn" or "perfect woman" built for anyone and someone just have to be in the right place at the right time to find her.

That sounds like "Someday My Prince Will Come" one-dimentional thinking.

Women are people. As people. Women are subject to being flawed. Shocking concept. One may have to talk to these "women" (person) to determine their history, feelings and thoughts. One may have to develop trust and intimacy to have a lasting, non-superficial dynamic. *gasp*



---

No need to reply as what I'm going to write is for anyone stumbling across this thread. I may just end up copy/pasting it in every thread that pops up.

Women are people. Say it again. Women are people.

There are way too many threads like this to not be troubled reading them all. (The "you" "your" below is general usage and not calling anyone out specifically)

Women are not here exclusively for your sexual pleasure and to make you feel good about your perception of masculinity or to fill in the gaps of where that is lacking.

Women who hate on other women? Stop internalizing negative traits about your own gender. If you "can see" why men have so many "problems" with women because you're not "like other women" you're just like other women. STFU. You did not break the mold. Get a grip on your ego and ignorant arrogance.

I don't know anyone who cannot be disturbed that so many young and old men, and some women have these issues of not being able to connect, build and maintain relationships with women. It says a lot about them.

It's shows, to me, just how separated "women" are from "people" in society. In most of these threads, women are responding with essentially the same thing and it isn't getting heard: [MENTION=1180]miss fortune[/MENTION] just started a thread about it because of the prevalence of these things.

"We are people. Treat us as individuals. Treat us with respect." And somehow that is met by a lot of anger and confusion and more of the same. It is sad. Very sad.


If you - as a male or female - have trouble building, communcating and maintaining relationships with AN ENTIRE half of the population (insert which gender it is for you) -

You have issues that are not being addressed properly. Go see a professional therapist please. No one on the internet can help you

I really feel disgusted by racism and, the one who enters sexism is not less than a racist to protect his own sex. (afraid to lose power over the opposite sex)

It is well known misogyny is the other name given to the mask to wear when one is afraid of women.


We are individuals. And until there will be some unfair situations, some women will fight. Some people even tell women

"you are feminist" when they try to defend their rights or express themselves.


Let's not mix everything and keep our mind clear. Due to this fear of letting power to women, there are still some awful things done to "us" (well I'm a woman after all and

apparently I didn't chose to be born this way....) all over the world.


If you - as a male or female - have trouble building, communcating and maintaining relationships with AN ENTIRE half of the population (insert which gender it is for you) -

You have issues that are not being addressed properly. Go see a professional therapist please. No one on the internet can help you


This is also the truth for women indeed. Some of us have (or have had) problems due to our past or even due to our parents.

One can't find fulness without feeling at peace with the opposite sex. We can't deny half of the world. And we can still protect our own values.

Even if I do think we are in a men/women revolution today (most of the time in silence), there are plenty of books on the subject.

When one wants to evolve, there is no excuse : Read, understand, and practice. That's it.

Ignorance is more comfortable for the ego of the one who feels afraid (even if he doesn't want to admit it).


It is (for everyone) our own responsibility to change our life or to keep on despising unfairly people on our way who will, maybe one day, help us to open our eyes...

 

[Virtual ghost]

You're an enneatype 8, right ? So that kind of attitude is part of your self-defense. Everybody has been hurt or disappointed, and then we protect ourselves with a big mask and a close heart.
You need to find peace with women around you by working on yourself first. Fighting AGAINST isn't the way to follow every single minute of your life...

It often leads to dead-ends or, in the best case scenario to more and more battles...

I am unsure what exactly I am: but I am some combination of 1w9, 8w9,5w6 and 3w4 and ambiverted NTJ.


Yes, everyone was disapponted but I happen to have decades of alienation and lack of care from women. I know that I was dealing with very unhealthy examples of women but women in general still trigger mistrust in me since I didn't find examples that prove otherwise. (take a look at post 42 for some examples)

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I am unsure what exactly I am: but I am some combination of 1w9, 8w9,5w6 and 3w4 and ambiverted NTJ.


Yes, everyone was disapponted but I happen to have decades of alienation and lack of care from women. I know that I was dealing with very unhealthy examples of women but women in general still trigger mistrust in me since I didn't find examples that prove otherwise. (take a look at post 42 for some examples)

I won't take a look at post 42 for now That's not to provoke you, that is to point out (I've read the thread because I think it is interesting) you have to take care of your ANIMA.

It was said in the thread, if you really wanna work on the subject. And you know man (allow me this one, because after all you are a man! Hehe), I'll tell you something :

You are suffering right now. If you weren't, you wouldn't be expressing yourself on a forum which deals with MBTI and psychology.

You probably give a shit. But you are looking for a way .....and at the same time it seems you aren't in this feeling of ACCEPTANCE, SHARE and TRUST.


Trust is also very very very difficult for some women. The ego always has a fucking good reason to get stuck in the mud (not to say in its own shit)







NB: I've been working on my ANIMUS FOR YEARS and I can say today : I DON'T REGRET IT. I've been working hard and I'm proud of myself

with an open heart (even if sometimes I fall in denial again because I have my own fears like everybody else).

And believe me, I can still fight whenever I feel a person (or let's say a man) isn't worth my energy !

Your ego is your actual poison.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I won't take a look at post 42 for now That's not to provoke you, that is to point out (I've read the thread because I think it is interesting) you have to take care of your ANIMA.

It was said in the thread, if you really wanna work on the subject. And you know man (allow me this one, because after all you are a man! Hehe), I'll tell you something :

You are suffering right now. If you weren't, you wouldn't be expressing yourself on a forum which deals with MBTI and psychology.

You probably give a shit. But you are looking for a way .....and at the same time it seems you aren't in this feeling of ACCEPTANCE, SHARE and TRUST.


Trust is also very very very difficult for some women. The ego always have a fucking good reason to get stuck in the mud (not to say in its own shit)







NB: I've been working on my ANIMUS FOR YEARS and I can say today : I DON'T REGRET IT. I've been working hard and I'm proud of myself

with an open heart (even if sometimes I fall in denial again because I have my own fears like everybody else).

And believe me, I can still fight whenever I feel a person (or let's say a man) isn't worth my energy !

Your ego is your actual poison.

I think I said that this is clearly the largest hole in my life at the moment, therefore I am not hidding that I have a problem. (due to pilled up bad experiences)
Feel free to take a look at post 42 , it really gives concrete meaning to this thread.


Btw what is Animus ?

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

That's a start : admitting you have a problem. Just a first step.

I'll take a look later as I'm quite detail oriented for all that concerns injustice. And that thread had touched my feeling or injustice.


Animus : Animus-Anima in Jungian psychology - YouTube

 

[Virtual ghost]

That's a start : admitting you have a problem. Just a first step.

I'll take a look later as I'm quite detail oriented for all that concerns injustice. And that thread had touched my feeling or injustice.


Animus : Animus-Anima in Jungian psychology - YouTube

The truth is that I had many more practical/educational real life problems but I solved them and I have left this one for the end, since it made sense to clean up everything else first. I had problems, they had problems and everything simply spiraled out of control. However I wonder what I did that I was in situations that my grandmother used so say "I pity the girl that will end up with you" or often I was the only one who wasn't invited to the birthday parties of the girls from class, why they couldn't commit to a relationship if they like me so much, why are they so quick to send me to therapy (is it because they need it ?), why did teacher gave me random Fs simply because I looked like a student she had the affair with and they caught her ... etc etc etc.


It is just that I don't feel welcome and I have really nothing that will prove me otherwise. Plus I don't want to be dragged into the mess of unhealthy person just so that I am not single anymore, especially since my calmness obviously has the tendency to attract the unhealthy ones. The truth is that I am basically the opposite of typical woman but that is no reason to condem me over and over again ?


All I need is some empathy, which for some reason I never got from women. (I still remember when one girl randomly gave me a hug few years ago, it was so strange moment)
Even in thread such as this one women are much more likely to drag me into all kind of arguments and debates instead of offering just a simple understanding. Seriously, where is the catch ?

 

[mystik_INFJ]

OP, which type is more attractive to you? The conservative or the liberal woman? I think this is where you should start.

Conservative women tend to be dress better and take better care of themselves and more stable and dependable but respond poorly to soft men. They are the kind that wants kids and marriage and a depenable partner. The classic woman model that I appreciate.

Liberal women tend to look less attractive and stable and have less interest in marriage and kids and tend to dress more flashy and with less taste (IMHO).

For me conservative women >>> liberal women for many reasons that can't be talked about here because it will trigger too many. I recommend studying the two and see which one is more to your taste. It offers a lot of exporable ground. Good start?

 

[S16M4]

OP, which type is more attractive to you? The conservative or the liberal woman? I think this is where you should start.

Conservative women tend to be dress better and take better care of themselves and more stable and dependable but respond poorly to soft men. They are the kind that wants kids and marriage and a depenable partner. The classic woman model that I appreciate.

Liberal women tend to look less attractive and stable and have less interest in marriage and kids and tend to dress more flashy and with less taste (IMHO).

For me conservative women >>> liberal women for many reasons that can't be talked about here because it will trigger too many. I recommend studying the two and see which one is more to your taste. It offers a lot of exporable ground. Good start?

Edit: I thought you were bullshitting until I looked it up.

Hot or Not: Why Conservative Women Are 'Prettier' Than Liberal Ladies

Why Conservative Women Are So Pretty

The GOP has a feminine face, UCLA study finds | UCLA

Scott Adams on the Attractiveness of Trump Supporters

Mind. Blown. Another piece of the puzzle for my Ti.