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Thread: Bullying

  1. #531
    Moderator Yuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    Did you know that I too experienced formative abuse, whether being beaten or starved by a father with NPD, never mind ongoing emotional abuse? I also experienced attempted rape from a trusted close friend.
    I do now. What’s your point?

    My post was in response to Mole’s post, and his general obssesion with his own self-imposed image.
    " Do something, even if it's wrong."

    " I don't wanna have to but I will, if that's what I'm supposed to do
    We don't wanna set up for the kill, but that's what I'm 'bout to do."

  2. #532

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    I do now. What’s your point?
    My point was that most people have experienced bullying of some form, regardless of whether or not they've mentioned their experiences so in some ways, most people are the same. This addresses the contents of your post.

    My post was in response to Mole’s post, and his general obssesion with his own self-imposed image.
    Okay. I often 'miss' his posts.

  3. #533
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The animal world is ordered by predators snd parasites just as we are ordered by bullies,
    I'm shaking in my boots.

  4. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    My point was that most people have experienced bullying of some form, regardless of whether or not they've mentioned their experiences so in some ways, most people are the same. This addresses the contents of your post.

    Okay. I often 'miss' his posts.
    Yeah, “ miss” is a bit of an exggeration. Youbare not missing much.
    " Do something, even if it's wrong."

    " I don't wanna have to but I will, if that's what I'm supposed to do
    We don't wanna set up for the kill, but that's what I'm 'bout to do."

  5. #535
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    Bullies prey on the weak, just like Nature's predators and Nature's parasites.

  6. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I'm shaking in my boots.
    The jaguar is a top line predator, while the mole shakes in his tiny little boots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The jaguar is a top line predator, while the mole shakes in his tiny little boots.
    I'm a terror bird.
    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi



  8. #538
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    I am being bullied by a nurse in the hospital. Somonile bullies elderly white men by picking a fight with her victim and then himiliating him.

    I have lodged a formal written complaint with thy hospital but they have failed to address the complaint. The hospital is well known for bullying among the staff but now it extends to patients in their care.

    Simonilre. Is clever at picking fights with elderly white patients in her care. Simonile tryed to pick a fight with me with a long diatribe denying the truth of evolution on which modern medicine is based, expecting me to come back and fight her.

    I want her to stop abusing elderly white men in her care. I may need to apply for a Court Order to succeed.

  9. #539
    Senior Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I'm pretty sure that everyone experiences instances of bullying at some point in their lives. Some deal with it better than others; some head it off at the pass and it becomes just a series of isolated and rare events, whilst others don't manage to neutralize it early enough or at all, and end up being ground down by it for years.

    I suffered from ruthless bullying all the way through school and it cut my self-esteem into ribbons and contributed to my spending the first 20 years of my life pretty downtrodden and very isolated.

    I've learned that the choice of who gets bullied can be pretty arbitrary and is mainly nothing to do with the actual qualities or characteristics of the victim themselves. But if there is any deciding factor it's this: bullies only pick on people who they believe will not fight back. But the crucial factor in 'successful' bullying is that the victim must not glimpse this thruth: the victim must absolutely believe that they really ARE ugly, dumb, that nobody likes them, that they're not worthy of being treated as a human being. Because if they begin to realize the BS level of what the bullies tell them then they just might start fighting back.

    But I've learned that simply losing my temper and yelling doesn't help - it didn't work at school either. If I did that, the bullies would just laugh at me and then I'd feel ten times worse. So the only way to check-mate it is to unleash my inner sadist and throw some barb that makes them feel ten times shittier than they wanted to make me feel. But not everyone has it in them to do this.

    Is that it then? It's rather sad if that's it; if the choice is to either bully or be bullied. There must be another way.

    I'd like if people here could talk about their experiences of bullying, and if anyone's found a way to deal with it, what is it?

    Parents - how do you deal with it when your children get bullied?

    I'm interested in comments from people who might be or have been bullies themselves. I want to explore the mindset of both bully and victim, in the hope that I'll be inspired with *something* to tell my 11 year old daughter when she comes home crying again tomorrow
    In this life, it is inevitable to be a bully and be bullied at some point.

    Growing up I was bullied relentlessly, and in turn relentlessly bullied.

    The craziest thing that ever happened to me was in third grade, I was pinned down by an 8th grade, and his friend, while a third one shat on me. It wasn't as painful though, or as tramatic, as when, in fourth grade, a highschooler strangled me until I passed out.

    This was common growing up in the 90's. There were not many days where I wasn't beaten or chased, and same with my friends.

    I grew up in a fairly wealthy neighborhood too, but often times, there would be guns and drugs around too...and in 8th grade, a kid brought a gun to party and put it to the back of my head. He made me kiss the ground and then he put it way.

    Stuff like that is pretty normal, or was at least, growing up in the wealthy parts of Illinois.
    "I dream in stereo, the stereo sounds strange, I know that if you hide, it doesn't go away, if you get out of bed.....my little dark age."

  10. #540
    Senior Member lightsun's Avatar
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    Part I. 'Finland found a proven way to combat bullying. Here's what it'll take to make it work in the US' By Dakin Andone, CNN

    "In May, a report by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine said young people were staring down a "serious public health problem." But it wasn't drugs they were worried about, or alcohol. It was bullying. Researchers have long looked for a way to prevent bullying in American schools, but the problem persists, and no one can seem to agree on a surefire way to address it. But Finland has piloted a program that has seen widespread success in combating bullying in schools.

    It's been translated and licensed to countries across Europe. But some researchers say it wouldn't work in the US. "The United States is a different beast," said Dorothy Espelage, a psychology professor at the University of Florida who studies bullying and harassment. The program is called KiVa -- short for "kiusaamista vastaan," which means "against bullying." The Finnish government helped fund its development and it's now being used in schools throughout the country.

    It was developed by educators and researchers at the University of Turku, and multiple studies show it effectively curbs bullying by focusing on classes as a whole, instead of addressing individual bullies and their victims. "The idea is that kids bully to gain status and power," said Julie Hubbard, a psychology professor at the University of Delaware who's studying KiVa's effectiveness with American students.

    According to its website, KiVa's curriculum uses lessons and computer games to change that dynamic by focusing on bystanders who witness the bullying. "If you can get the bystanders to focus on the victim and not the bully, then bullying isn't a very rewarding thing to do," Hubbard said. The hope is that this fosters a culture where bullying is socially unacceptable.

    I. How effective is it?

    A 2016 study conducted by researchers at the University of California Los Angeles surveyed more than 7,000 students between the 4th through 6th grades in nearly 80 Finnish elementary schools. About half the schools received KiVa intervention while the others didn't. Researchers found the program significantly helps victims of bullying, and data even suggested KiVa could decrease depression in the victims and raise their self-esteem.

    Schools in the US are too diverse. One of the reasons KiVa wouldn't work is because it wasn't developed for an audience as diverse as the US public school system. "Finnish students are homogeneous economically, racially and culturally," Espelage, the University of Florida professor, said, "whereas US schools are distinctly diverse on socioeconomic status, ethnicity and religious background." According to Espelage, the social inequalities these students face whether it be race or class increase the risks of bullying. If kids have different races and different socioeconomic backgrounds, other kids are more likely to bully them around those issues.

    "Kids that are in the minority of the school tend to be victims of bullying," Espelage said. According to the National Center of Educational Statistics, the average racial make-up of American students in 2014 was 50 percent white, 25 percent Hispanic and 16 percent African American. The remaining nine percent consisted of Asians and Pacific Islanders, Native Americans and those of mixed race. Compare that to UCLA's study of KiVa, where all but 2.1 percent of the participants were white Finnish students.

    II. A problem is the schools in the US are resource-challenged.

    Schools in the United States also have varying levels of funding and access to resources, and the problem is even more evident in predominantly African American and Hispanic neighborhoods where students are more likely to attend poorer schools, Espelage said. "Education is local," she said. "There's not going to be one program that fits all. It's going to have to be tailored to the context." Todd Little, a psychology professor at Texas Tech University, helped conduct an early study of KiVa in Finland, back in 2011. He agreed with Espelage's assessment of the program, he told CNN. "It worked in Finland but that is specific to the Finnish culture (and perhaps similar cultures)," he said in an email.

    III. Another problem is US teachers are focused on other things.

    Hubbard, the University of Delaware professor who has completed her trial of KiVa in Delaware, said her data suggests the program can work, even across a variety of races and ethnicity. But the roadblocks to implementing a program like KiVa don't lie with the kids, she said. It's with the teachers. Her study has not been published yet, but she shared the racial breakdown of her sample.
    The children in her study were 49 percent European American, 20 percent Hispanic American and 18 percent African American.

    Seven percent were of mixed race and six percent were Asian. She and her colleagues looked at KiVa's effectiveness across the board to see if they differed by race. "Largely," she said, "the answer was no, we really did not see differences by child or race ethnicity." She's more concerned with the differences between Finnish teachers and American teachers. "Our data suggests that if teachers really implement KiVa it works well in the US for our children," Hubbard said. "But we had a lot more difficulty getting teachers to do it."

    IV. An issue here in the United States is that we don't value our teachers as much.

    According to the National Institute of Justice, KiVa requires teachers to conduct 10 lessons over 20 hours. It's a huge time commitment many US teachers can't justify when they are teaching to prepare their students for standardized tests. Another big difference is the value Finnish society places on teachers, Hubbard said. The "best and brightest" become teachers, and they're placed on the same level as doctors and lawyers, she said. "They value their teachers that way and they pay their teachers that way."

    Finland has one of the best school systems in the world. It requires its teachers to have master degrees and the government provides free access to all levels of education so children of varying socioeconomic backgrounds get equal opportunities, according to a 2015 report by the Paris-based Organisation for Economic and Co-operation Development. Finnish students also face no national standardized tests, the OECD report said. Teachers in the United States are "bombarded" with expectations,

    Hubbard said. "They're supposed to do drug prevention, they're supposed to do sex education, they're supposed to do so many things, and bullying prevention is just another thing that's on the list." In Finland, schools placed high value on bullying prevention, and spent a lot of time and energy on it, she said.

    V. What needs to change here in the US.


    Change the focus of how we teach.

    For bullying prevention programs to work, school districts and administrators need to see that same value, and recognize it takes time and effort to work. "It's not a 30-minute assembly at the beginning of the school year and then you check that box," Hubbard said. They also need to recognize the advantage bullying prevention programs have not just for the well-being of children, but their academics as well.

    "There is such a push on improving academic standards and test scores for our kids," Hubbard said." But I think that then these initiatives that have to do with sort of social and emotional learning and developing don't get as much attention." In order to convince school administrators to see the benefit of these programs, we need to emphasize that decreasing bullying helps academic performance and test scores, Hubbard said.

    VI. We need to move away from zero-tolerance policies.

    Experts have long recommended moving away from zero-tolerance policies and towards evidence-based programs like KiVa. "Remaining evidence-based is really important," Hubbard said. Espelage agreed teachers in the US simply aren't able to implement a program like KiVa, but agrees that it addresses what she's found in her research; it's important to focus on "school climate," she said, instead of individuals.

    She suggests anti-bullying advocates focus on funding research that takes into account the issues of our educational system and the diversity in our schools. "We know these programs are good if kids can see themselves reflected in the program," she told CNN. Both Espelage and Hubbard agreed the burden of solving the issue of bullying in US schools is on researchers and advocates." Finland found a proven way to combat bullying. Here's what it'll take to make it work in the US - CNN
    LightSun Paul Peaceweaver

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