growing up poor... how has it shaped you?

[Ivy]

I did grow up well below the poverty line. As an adult well into the comfort of middle class, I still struggle with everything in this Cracked article, especially these three:

#5. You Develop a Taste for Shitty Food- I'm working on developing a more sophisticated palate but TBH right now I am totally craving Taco Bell.
#4. Extra Money Has to Be Spent Right Goddamn Now! We sold our first house about three weeks ago, and got a small payout (about 12K after paying my dad back for our new house's down payment). It has taken all of my willpower not to spend the whole windfall on a giant 4K TV and Sonos speakers for every room of the house.
#3. You Want to Go Overboard on Gift-Giving- I both love and hate this. We really only do Christmas gifts for the children, we don't really do gifts for anyone else, even each other. I managed to convince all the various "wings" of our families to participate in Buy Nothing Christmas when it comes to our extended family get-togethers. But for the kids, I can get anxious about whether they have "enough" to be happy on Christmas morning. Compared to other families I know we don't go too overboard, but we're definitely not spartan.

 

[Virtual ghost]

My story is somewhat atypical. (at least by standards of this forum)


I was never really poor when compared to others, I even had relative security. However that is only when compared with others since basically everyone here were poor. What was especially the case in 90s when the government crashed and war for independance started. In others words the war crashed the economy completely, especially since there was the actual deficit of goods since production of goods stopped or production remained on the other side of the frontlines. Therefore there were months when we were shopping for groceries abroad, so from young age I am used to survive with little and make reserves when possble (Sp-dom). However due to historical reasons and what happened after the war I never experianced some extra wealthy/western life since this is simply unlikely scenario here. I have enough for the basic living and a few smaller luxuries but that is it.

 

[Evo]

Well, my parents were below poverty line, but as a kid I had no idea. My parents had, and still have, a tremendous amount of credit card debt. I started becoming more and more curious as to why my parents were able to get things, and I wasn't. So when I asked about it, my dad told me the truth. I was pretty young, but gradually I became curious enough about their finances that I realized they were way over their heads.

The gradual process of my dad continually joking about it (but at the same time informing me) became my "how-to" guide to avoid ending up like them. This probably is the cause as to why I over think almost all my purchases. I almost never buy something just because it feels good. So I'd say it played a significant role in my life.

 

[Numbly Aware]

One of the reasons my family is poor is because us kids got (about) whatever the hell we wanted.. No such thing as "saving"
My dad is an ENTP and believed our happiness is more important than having the nicest house or car. In my opinion, we were spoiled.

We rarely would go "shopping" I mean, I just happened to be that child who wouldn't buy anything unless I'd die without it. My siblings didn't want anything either. We'd question each other, "Do we really want this? no..?" We didn't like treating our dad's money as if it grew on trees.
I valued my clothing and shoes. I treated them like gold, so they lasted forever. My clothes were extremely classy, so I had few. I didn't want a lot.
1. Clothes for the house... enough, cheap.
2. Clothes for the park.. or exercise-wear.
3. Clothes for special occasions. That's it.

There was never surety for our future, but who cares as long as we have each other. Thank God for work.
As for college, I don't like relying on my dad for that. I believe it was his job to take care of me until I reach 18, then I shall get a job, save money, and apply for college. Education is a privilege, not a necessity.

My dad would take us out and say: You can have whatever like...

Oh, yeah, growing up poor, has shaped up my cooking skills, my sewing skills, my patient skills.

 

[Falcarius]

For Falcarius’ first 4 years he grew up in a Bildungsbürgetum ghetto. In a frightfully overpriced 4 storey Victorian townhouse in just about the most stereotypical middle class British city, where all the narrow streets run at right-angles to the main road, close to the city centre but squeezed by the river and the railway line.

During the early 1990s recession Falcarius’ parents downsized to the other side of the city. Much more Banlieue than Bildungsbürgetum. After the eighties’ collapse of the manufacturing economy the area gained a dark carnivalesque reputation in the national media.

It was a bit of a shock going from the areas to another, from the poorest of one area to the more richer of one of the most deprived areas of the country. Falcarius used to dream about being rich when he was growing up but now the frugal habits his parents instilled in him live on today. More than anything it shaped Falcarius’ political views; such as why he see the ridiculousness in much of the present welfare policies.

 

[Kas]

My family was never really poor. Though I remember two times when parents had little of money.

One was when I was little, we had where to live what to eat and so I wasn’t very aware of it e.g. my mother used to save money for fruits and I kept secretly share those I got 1:1 with my dog. My sister used to moralized me a lot about not asking parents to buy me something , once finally she gave me such a speech about “more important matters” and how the parents may feel if they have no money for what I ask , that I ended up crying and I don’t think I ever asked for anything but school books again. I used to make puppy eyes though

The other time I was in junior high and it was less fun as my friends were leaving for holidays and I was going to spend all the holidays(in beautiful weather) at home. Suddenly the parents of mine friend invited me to their summer house.

And so … I learned how to behave more tactful and how easily you can recognize kind people during bad times.

 

[Betty Blue]

You know, I am rich in so many ways, money does not bother me too much, as long as I can pay the bills I don't want for much. Saying this I'm pretty rubbish with money and thought i'm not materialistic I am indulgent. Like most things in my life being poor growing up had parallels and contradictions. For example when I was born my mother was living in a squat. No electricity, no hot water, poor mans pasta for dinner etc etc, but... she lived their for idealistic reasons and was later rehoused after a political movement that led all of the squatters to be rehoused. She grew up with a chauffeur, tennis courts, their own petrol pumps ... but I didn't know any of that... I knew the squat and the idealism and the contradictions. Many times we went from living well to living well below the poverty line. My father was much better with money coming from a pottery and coal mining town up north. He was much more frugal, saved his money worked many hours, took us to work with him in the holidays, we worked too. I suppose this has shaped me too. I am pretty terrible with money, I work best when i have a terribly small budget. Though my idealism is also in the mix because I care little for riches... actually it turns me off quite a bit.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I grew up similarly, although there were times we had nowhere to live, as in our own home...we split up and stayed with family/friends, so we weren't on the street or living in a car. I didn't have much dental or vision care (and I have REALLY BAD eyesight and extremely crooked teeth, both which left me open to minor teasing from peers) and we never took vacations or really did much "fun" stuff because we couldn't afford it. I spent my childhood summers drawing and reading books from the library. I don't remember having a problem with this.....it just surprises me to hear people speak of their childhood and they did all these activities and went on all these family trips, etc. We didn't do that stuff. I did have lots of toys because my grandparents were comfortable financially, and I got a lot of gifts from them. By the time I was in HS, things had improved a lot and we weren't really poor anymore either.

Although much of my childhood was happy, I do remember being stressed about money and not wanting to ask for anything. I overheard lots of arguments, and I saw how finances totally soured my mom's marriage. I had a determination to not be a burden on anyone (because I think I felt like a financial burden), so I wanted to be financially independent as an adult. I also experienced humiliating situations due to being poor. I think I may have trouble accepting help from people because of this. I like to take care of myself as much as possible. I don't like to depend on someone or be indebted or feel like a charity case.

As an adult, I am not frugal nor focused on material security. It has almost had the opposite effect, where I realized how material security is an illusion, that money can be very, uh, transitory, and that it is best to enjoy things when they are there and not get too attached.

I think I see permanence and security in human connections and faith (in myself and my own abilities and the bigger, religious kind). I have a confidence that I will be able to figure out how to survive, whatever circumstances may arise.

I also admit to being a "poor snob", having a kind of judgmental resentment towards people who don't know what it is like to be poor. I realize this is not rational . It also REALLY ticks me off to hear any comments about poor people being stupid, lazy, dirty, uncultured, criminals, etc. People who criticize government programs to help people who are in dire financial situations usually strike me as incredibly ignorant and prejudice.

Strangely enough, people never guess I was poor as a kid or that my parents have become quite poor again in their semi-retirement (I actually give them money now). People often think I come from an upper middle class family. I think it's the enneagram 4 elitist vibe . Really though, many never knew we were as poor as we were, probably because of those stereotypes of what poor people are like.

 

[1487610420]

slim like a baws

 

[Blackout]

I grew up similarly, although there were times we had nowhere to live, as in our own home...we split up and stayed with family/friends, so we weren't on the street or living in a car. I didn't have much dental or vision care (and I have REALLY BAD eyesight and extremely crooked teeth, both which left me open to minor teasing from peers) and we never took vacations or really did much "fun" stuff because we couldn't afford it. I spent my childhood summers drawing and reading books from the library. I don't remember having a problem with this.....it just surprises me to hear people speak of their childhood and they did all these activities and went on all these family trips, etc. We didn't do that stuff. I did have lots of toys because my grandparents were comfortable financially, and I got a lot of gifts from them. By the time I was in HS, things had improved a lot and we weren't really poor anymore either.

Although much of my childhood was happy, I do remember being stressed about money and not wanting to ask for anything. I overheard lots of arguments, and I saw how finances totally soured my mom's marriage. I had a determination to not be a burden on anyone (because I think I felt like a financial burden), so I wanted to be financially independent as an adult. I also experienced humiliating situations due to being poor. I think I may have trouble accepting help from people because of this. I like to take care of myself as much as possible. I don't like to depend on someone or be indebted or feel like a charity case.

As an adult, I am not frugal nor focused on material security. It has almost had the opposite effect, where I realized how material security is an illusion, that money can be very, uh, transitory, and that it is best to enjoy things when they are there and not get too attached.

I think I see permanence and security in human connections and faith (in myself and my own abilities and the bigger, religious kind). I have a confidence that I will be able to figure out how to survive, whatever circumstances may arise.

I also admit to being a "poor snob", having a kind of judgmental resentment towards people who don't know what it is like to be poor. I realize this is not rational . It also REALLY ticks me off to hear any comments about poor people being stupid, lazy, dirty, uncultured, criminals, etc. People who criticize government programs to help people who are in dire financial situations usually strike me as incredibly ignorant and prejudice.

Strangely enough, people never guess I was poor as a kid or that my parents have become quite poor again in their semi-retirement (I actually give them money now). People often think I come from an upper middle class family. I think it's the enneagram 4 elitist vibe . Really though, many never knew we were as poor as we were, probably because of those stereotypes of what poor people are like.

I think it's like the opposite from me

Actually, I get really mixed opinions. I've noticed that people who come from more middle or upper middle class families tend to act like I am an alley cat who just walked out from off the street and am smelly and full of dirt or something. But oddly enough, I know very wealthy people (well some) and they I have gotten along with them better.

HA

HA HA HA, to everyone who looks down on me!

*big STINK EYE*:moonwalk::hamsterdance: Well, kind of. I've noticed there is a bit of an aloof them, and similarly they have this feeling or perspective of being "outside" but it comes off sort of like this "you're a plebeian" but, I have had them in my circle of friends before, and I think perhaps in some ways that might reflect or bode well for myself. Maybe? not that money all together has an outright reflection on a person's worth or quality. But I mean, I have read some sociology related material, and typically about class and all that stuff, and it has confirmed some of what I have read. I guess it makes some people uncomfortable, but when I mention things like that, generally I am coming from a neutral place, or that these observations or perhaps semi-neutral in some instances.

 

[kyuuei]

People who say money can't buy happiness are usually rich. Money buys a lot. That actual emotion? No. But not worrying where food and shelter comes from? That's a lot of stress relieved by money.

Growing up we went from poverty to working class. Then my young adult years back to poverty. I never minded it. .... until something went wrong. Then it massively sucked. Lose a job. Lose the ability to work. Lose a home because you're not rich enough to hire a lawyer to help you. I've been through all of that.

Much of my ambition was born out of struggling to survive. I'm a pretty driven person. But I also have anxieties I never would have had if we were middle class. I wouldn't be helping care for my sick parents if they were retired properly from a good job.

I don't regret my life at all but I don't wish poverty on anyone either. A lot of my opportunities I have I made for myself, and also I was lucky and smart and healthy. Without those three who knows where I would be now.

 

[nonsequitur]

I saw mentions of poverty affecting people's views of economics and personal responsibility, and wanted to link this: Poverty linked to epigenetic changes and mental illness : Nature News & Comment

Speaking from a science perspective, it's been known for a long time that trauma, stress, poverty and malnutrition during development affects people permanently on a biological and behavioural level, and results in developmental and neurological deficits that impair their education. Further, biological changes during stress transcend generations so it goes beyond individual experience.

This information also shapes my view of economics and personal responsibility.

 

[Blackout]

I saw mentions of poverty affecting people's views of economics and personal responsibility, and wanted to link this: Poverty linked to epigenetic changes and mental illness : Nature News & Comment

Speaking from a science perspective, it's been known for a long time that trauma, stress, poverty and malnutrition during development affects people permanently on a biological and behavioural level, and results in developmental and neurological deficits that impair their education. Further, biological changes during stress transcend generations so it goes beyond individual experience.

This information also shapes my view of economics and personal responsibility.

Yes, but that also could be a very biased article trying to make those who have no been blessed financially to look bad.

 

[nonsequitur]

Yes, but that also could be a very biased article trying to make those who have no been blessed financially to look bad.

It's more than one study. Did you open the link to read the article?

 

[Blackout]

It's more than one study. Did you open the link to read the article?

Yes, but many times I can that researchers and writers can be just as biased or that theories and conclusions can be built on faulty premises or foundations.

I don't think it's altogether wrong, but when you start saying that things are "permanent" and changes the persons' "DNA" and biology, it sort to look really eugenic, or at least would make me wonder if there is that agenda, if ever so slightly.

I am not saying it's wrong, just saying.

 

[nonsequitur]

Yes, but many times I can that researchers and writers can be just as biased or that theories and conclusions can be built on faulty premises or foundations.

I don't think it's altogether wrong, but when you start saying that things are "permanent" and changes the persons' "DNA" and biology, it sort to look really eugenic, or at least would make me wonder if there is that agenda, if ever so slightly.

I am not saying it's wrong, just saying.

*sighs* I forgot that most laypeople haven't been exposed to the concept of epigenetics and might misunderstand the point there.

You've missed the point of the articles completely, probably because of a misunderstanding about genetics, DNA, behaviour and biochemistry. It's only recently been framed/discussed as such but what's being taught in the schools about the Mendelian form of inheritance and Darwinian evolution is only the tip of the iceberg with regards to the complexity in biology. Usually, when people are taught "Darwinian evolution" where evolution takes place in a selection process for certain forms (alleles) of genes, it's in a comparison to the much-mocked "Lamarckian evolution", where an aspirational/nurture-angle slant affects offspring, who inherit the benefits to acquire a competitive advantage (he didn't say how it happened, merely used the example of a giraffe's long neck - this is from the early 19th century). While Darwin himself didn't attack Lamarck, his acolytes did venomously, which gave rise to the paradigm that currently shapes pre-tertiary level education in biology - the idea that we cannot control our genes, and this was also hijacked by the Nazis to form their eugenics program.

What we've found relatively recently (this field only started taking off in about 2006-7?) is that while gene sequence - what is in our DNA - definitely plays a role in what we call the "phenotype" (displayed traits) of individuals, for complex, multi-faceted traits such as sexuality, body type, gender, intelligence, whether people get certain forms of cancer and the specific forms of cancer the get, outlook on life, etc, nurture and life circumstance affects how the genes that we inherit are "read". This field is known as "epigenetics", and is controlled through cell mechanisms that modify the structure of certain genes (this is known as "chromosomal marks"). This field is also the reason why people are going back to discuss Lamarck's ideas.

If I were to analogise our bodies to music, what we inherit from our parents might be the time/rhythm, which determines the speed at which our lives are gonna run at - there's always a form there that can't be changed. But how the song sounds - whether it's in a C major key or an E minor - a lot of that is determined by circumstances such as nutrition, whether the kid has been exposed to traumatic experiences or stresses, cultural expectations etc. during early life. Further evidence suggests that effects of early childhood experience on life expectancy and quality of life of a person are at least equal to the effect of intrinsic genetic differences.

This is the exact opposite of eugenics! It's also why I advocate for early intervention for disadvantaged kids - it could make a huge difference in their lives and the lives of their children (because these "environment-caused genetic changes" are inheritable). It's also what the papers I linked to are implying - that poverty and traumatic stress in early life can biologically change a person to the point where it is extremely difficult for them to see outside of their immediate environment and be anything but reactive and focused on the short-term. This forms part of the paradigm of why poverty is passed down through generations across different cultures. (There's also discussion of the maladaptive neurodevelopmental response but I don't really have time to explain neurobiology here so if anyone is interested please read Paul Tough's book on education of disadvantaged kids.)

I'm not sure how well I'm explaining this, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

 

[Numbly Aware]

*sighs* I forgot that most laypeople haven't been exposed to the concept of epigenetics and might misunderstand the point there.

You've missed the point of the articles completely, probably because of a misunderstanding about genetics, DNA, behaviour and biochemistry. It's only recently been framed/discussed as such but what's being taught in the schools about the Mendelian form of inheritance and Darwinian evolution is only the tip of the iceberg with regards to the complexity in biology. Usually, when people are taught "Darwinian evolution" where evolution takes place in a selection process for certain forms (alleles) of genes, it's in a comparison to the much-mocked "Lamarckian evolution", where an aspirational/nurture-angle slant affects offspring, who inherit the benefits to acquire a competitive advantage (he didn't say how it happened, merely used the example of a giraffe's long neck - this is from the early 19th century). While Darwin himself didn't attack Lamarck, his acolytes did venomously, which gave rise to the paradigm that currently shapes pre-tertiary level education in biology - the idea that we cannot control our genes, and this was also hijacked by the Nazis to form their eugenics program.

What we've found relatively recently (this field only started taking off in about 2006-7?) is that while gene sequence - what is in our DNA - definitely plays a role in what we call the "phenotype" (displayed traits) of individuals, for complex, multi-faceted traits such as sexuality, body type, gender, intelligence, whether people get certain forms of cancer and the specific forms of cancer the get, outlook on life, etc, nurture and life circumstance affects how the genes that we inherit are "read". This field is known as "epigenetics", and is controlled through cell mechanisms that modify the structure of certain genes (this is known as "chromosomal marks"). This field is also the reason why people are going back to discuss Lamarck's ideas.

If I were to analogise our bodies to music, what we inherit from our parents might be the time/rhythm, which determines the speed at which our lives are gonna run at - there's always a form there that can't be changed. But how the song sounds - whether it's in a C major key or an E minor - a lot of that is determined by circumstances such as nutrition, whether the kid has been exposed to traumatic experiences or stresses, cultural expectations etc. during early life. Further evidence suggests that effects of early childhood experience on life expectancy and quality of life of a person are at least equal to the effect of intrinsic genetic differences.

This is the exact opposite of eugenics! It's also why I advocate for early intervention for disadvantaged kids - it could make a huge difference in their lives and the lives of their children (because these "environment-caused genetic changes" are inheritable). It's also what the papers I linked to are implying - that poverty and traumatic stress in early life can biologically change a person to the point where it is extremely difficult for them to see outside of their immediate environment and be anything but reactive and focused on the short-term. This forms part of the paradigm of why poverty is passed down through generations across different cultures. (There's also discussion of the maladaptive neurodevelopmental response but I don't really have time to explain neurobiology here so if anyone is interested please read Paul Tough's book on education of disadvantaged kids.)

I'm not sure how well I'm explaining this, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

Much appreciated.

 

[Tazzie]

Alot of it I didn't realize it till after the school days. we were considered poor in my family when I was a kid. I remember we rarely ate out, no allowance. We were taught to make the best of the situaton and learned to have more than one skill to help you get a job. Lived (in my opinion) a bad neighborhood for awhile and had fear of getting on a school bus till i was 13 because of witnessing another child getting jumped and beat up on a bus infront of me and I was 6.

Positive: It helped me to be great at saving for things that I want buy or do. It help me compare and shape my values or what the products is worth. It helped me appreciate that you have to work hard, adapt, listen, forgive and be patient in life.

 

[entropie]

I have more sex, growing up poor. Not that I know how much sex rich people have, but judging from my position, it's a challenge !

 

[chubber]

My dad's side of the family, after WW2, could only rent a house, they had another family living in their garage, they had no money. my mom's side moved from the farm to town, lost their jobs because of companies pulling out, due to government changing and their policies. My parents were renting from what I remember when I was a kid, it was only until about I was 6 when my dad landed a good paying job that allowed him to build his own home. It is a big house, but the big house also meant, big debt. So we had this contradiction, live in a big house, but can't afford to buy clothes, or anything associated with it. So people will say, but everything seems fine, however... there wasn't really any money to go around. My dad usually always buy 2nd hand or we used to go to the scrap heap to see what we could find and then my dad would repair it. From a cooling fan, to scissors with a broken handle. I still use that particular scissors to remind me where I come from. They still work from 7am till 10pm at night, that's just how it is with them. Today they can travel, and retire relatively ok'ish. It's not my choice of life style.