Apologizing

[wolfnara]

This thread made me realize that I realize apologize. I remember adults asking me when I was younger why won't you say sorry?. It was simply because I was not. I do occasionally say it for the sake of being polite towards strangers/acquaintances but even then it sounds forced. All my manners do. I have always thought they were fake and shallow, even though I understand that is not always true. But it makes me feel less motivated to say these things. I am the very opposite of the person who apologizes too much. My family did not actually teach me these social courtesies, which resulted with people outside home disapproving of my lack of good manners.

 

[five sounds]

I try not to over apologize but it's definitely my tendency. I feel like there's different kinds though. The kind most people say you shouldn't do, I find is helpful in acknowledging feelings or experiences of others. "I'm sorry I'm not cooking something you like more" or "I'm sorry I had to stand up and say such harsh words to you just now". Do I regret my actions? No. But am I sympathetic? Absolutely. And that's what I mean to convey.

Sincere apologies for mistakes I've made I say a lot more than sorry. I usually go into the dynamics and try to explain how I was mistaken or guided by wrong forces (anger, insecurity, selfishness) and how I understand the wrong I did and want to not do it anymore.

After both kinds I probably kiss ass for a while cuz I feel bad.

 

[BrainySchmuck]

When you do something really wrong, like breaking your word, like letting down someone who was really counting on you, like making someone feel bad when they didn't deserve it, like doing anything really awful and realizing you want to take it back ...

I'm convinced apologizing after such bad things will not prove I'm genuinely feeling sorry. Moreover, anything I will do is very likey to seem pretentious.
Instead, I tend to withdraw from the situation and avoid facing that person directly, and then...then I wait.

 

[Frosty]

I feel like I need to refigure out my ideology on apologizing a bit.

I don't like to think my apologies are insincere- but the suggestion is potentially valid.

And so... I need to reexamine. It is an actual tricky, yet really important issue/thing to me.

 

[cascadeco]

I over-apologized much of my life, and now I consider things a lot before doing so, and only with sincerity.
If my feelings/thoughts/actions are in alignment, I wont apologize for them no matter how hard it is for someone else to swallow. But, a lot of this goes back to me believing that people are in control of their own feelings, the thoughts that inform them and perspectives they hold (as conscious or unconscious of it they may be). You could say I value authenticity over harmony. Which gets really tricky, because it goes back to what authenticity is, and how you can ever be what you are not.

With enough understanding, an apology becomes unnecessary, for me. It is in the understanding that all people are trying to achieve similar things, but going about it in different ways. That people do harmful things because they are pinched-off from their 'higher self'. That it is more important for people to freely be who they are, than to even remotely hinder it by others expectations, because it splits their energy and everything they touch in that state is affected. But I realize this goes against the grain, and against what many people feel are the glue to social relations.

I think I see things kind of similarly, though not sure to what extent. I relate a lot to the first paragraph, not sure re 2nd.

I don't think I was ever someone who over apologized, but I think when younger and in friendships or relationships I'd do the thing where I sometimes essentially apologized for being Me; this was usually in the context of being anxious about how I was perceived, or apologizing for being a certain way, when really.... one needs to ask why the need to do that. Probably tied to insecurity or mismatched friendships, if you're falling into feeling who you are is something to apologize for. Which is something I am careful about assessing these days, and I don't think this happens much anymore. I'm pretty sure this is what you're emphasizing.

I will though apologize if I make mistakes, overlook something, realize I hurt or misunderstood someone (though it's tricky, as other people completely own their own perceptions and feelings and responses; but I will acknowledge and communicate my part in things), if I realize belatedly I was on the wrong track. Everyday sorts of things, things that genuinely require

 

[Evo]

Apologizing too much just cheapens the apology when it's really needed. Most minor issues just need a "sorry" or "excuse me" or "my mistake" and nothing more. Most people accept these as sufficient.

When you do something really wrong, like breaking your word, like letting down someone who was really counting on you, like making someone feel bad when they didn't deserve it, like doing anything really awful and realizing you want to take it back ... when it's that bad, you own it, you say it's your fault, you do what you can to make it up to the other person, and you ask the person if there is anything else you can do.

Oh, and when it's that bad, and you've apologized, the apology wasn't real if you end up doing the same kinds of things again.

This

It's rather irritating when people constantly apologize

Yes, it is. One of my co-workers does this a lot. It became too much of a burden for me to say "it's ok" or any other type of feedback, so now I just ignore it because I can't be bothered.

 

[Santosha]

I think I see things kind of similarly, though not sure to what extent. I relate a lot to the first paragraph, not sure re 2nd.

I don't think I was ever someone who over apologized, but I think when younger and in friendships or relationships I'd do the thing where I sometimes essentially apologized for being Me; this was usually in the context of being anxious about how I was perceived, or apologizing for being a certain way, when really.... one needs to ask why the need to do that. Probably tied to insecurity or mismatched friendships, if you're falling into feeling who you are is something to apologize for. Which is something I am careful about assessing these days, and I don't think this happens much anymore. I'm pretty sure this is what you're emphasizing.

I will though apologize if I make mistakes, overlook something, realize I hurt or misunderstood someone (though it's tricky, as other people completely own their own perceptions and feelings and responses; but I will acknowledge and communicate my part in things), if I realize belatedly I was on the wrong track. Everyday sorts of things, things that genuinely require

Yes, it is exactly what I'm emphasizing. I will not apologize for who I am, nor do I believe anyone else should. And this is where it gets very tricky. I'm going to attempt to articulate it, but honestly, articulating my more complex conceptions has never been a strength...and is one of the primary reasons I enjoy hanging on what used to be (perhaps still is) a predominantly N site. Anyhow, this roots back to evil versus awareness.

I've mentioned before that I don't believe in what is widely understood as 'evil'. I think the term is used when someone hits a wall in their ability to understand the manifest of extremely disconnected (painful) states of being. But I don't want to go too far down that rabbit-hole, as I've considered and discussed it ad-naus over the years, finding that usually people who hold that belief continue to, and regardless the number of gruesome/reprehensible stories they bring up, I can never accept it.

I view it as a lack of awareness. For if anyone could have a full awareness of the ripple, their mind would be absolutely blown. It would be too much to take in and handle, to function. Our filters are necessary in a physical reality. So the question is, how are we not ourselves? In each moment, we are in fact, ourselves.. or at least the 'self' we have come to know, in this life, with this continuum. When I've done ignorant, hurtful, selfish things.. I was myself, operating in that particular state of being, with that knowledge and awareness, those defense mechanisms, etc. People attempt to distance themselves from their perceived 'transgressions' by saying "Oh, I wasn't myself" and then they will often give all kinds of rationalizations. In doing so, they suppress their shadow, opportunities for better integration and self-acceptance, and as we know... those with the darkest shadows walk through this world with a pitch-fork, seeing evil around every bend and condemning their fellow-man. Part of me thinks what a terrible way to live, and then I remember that this is only a reflection of ones awareness.

So many people hell-bent on 'punishing' others, yet those punishments rarely, if ever heal, unite, connect, increase-awareness, create optimal environments that allow room for introspection, safe places to explore shadows. And yes, some people do need to be removed from society. Their disconnect goes so deep, it may take a thousand life-times.

But people fail to see the greatest punisher of all - awareness.
Because when you look back on things you have done to others, even knowing you did so out of limited-awareness, the pain of that can almost be unbearable. To understand not only those specific moments in time, the impact of those words or actions, but how it shaped said person. How it may have caused them to turn inward, to doubt, to fear, to be angry or sad, and how they then went on to affect others in these states, and on. And then you'll have to take it to the next level, and work on forgiving yourself.

And sometimes people use punishment to form a boundary, draw a line in the sand. Which is understandable. And the 'offender' may comply, and not do that one particular thing again. But it's not going to show them the why, only a consequence. Their level of awareness will be the same, which will come out in various other ways. So when they get it, it's no longer a problem.. no need for apology. And until they get it, an apology is just a social nicety, or a power play.

Eh, it's too late for me to get into why I think we are all striving for similar states of being, at varying levels of awareness and different approaches, or what I think happens when we, as energy beings, split our energy from what we really want, and what we think we should want. SO I'll just leave it as this.

 

[cascadeco]

Yes, it is exactly what I'm emphasizing. I will not apologize for who I am, nor do I believe anyone else should. And this is where it gets very tricky. I'm going to attempt to articulate it, but honestly, articulating my more complex conceptions has never been a strength...and is one of the primary reasons I enjoy hanging on what used to be (perhaps still is) a predominantly N site. Anyhow, this roots back to evil versus awareness.

I've mentioned before that I don't believe in what is widely understood as 'evil'. I think the term is used when someone hits a wall in their ability to understand the manifest of extremely disconnected (painful) states of being. But I don't want to go too far down that rabbit-hole, as I've considered and discussed it ad-naus over the years, finding that usually people who hold that belief continue to, and regardless the number of gruesome/reprehensible stories they bring up, I can never accept it.

I view it as a lack of awareness. For if anyone could have a full awareness of the ripple, their mind would be absolutely blown. It would be too much to take in and handle, to function. Our filters are necessary in a physical reality. So the question is, how are we not ourselves? In each moment, we are in fact, ourselves.. or at least the 'self' we have come to know, in this life, with this continuum. When I've done ignorant, hurtful, selfish things.. I was myself, operating in that particular state of being, with that knowledge and awareness, those defense mechanisms, etc. People attempt to distance themselves from their perceived 'transgressions' by saying "Oh, I wasn't myself" and then they will often give all kinds of rationalizations. In doing so, they suppress their shadow, opportunities for better integration and self-acceptance, and as we know... those with the darkest shadows walk through this world with a pitch-fork, seeing evil around every bend and condemning their fellow-man. Part of me thinks what a terrible way to live, and then I remember that this is only a reflection of ones awareness.

So many people hell-bent on 'punishing' others, yet those punishments rarely, if ever heal, unite, connect, increase-awareness, create optimal environments that allow room for introspection, safe places to explore shadows. And yes, some people do need to be removed from society. Their disconnect goes so deep, it may take a thousand life-times.

But people fail to see the greatest punisher of all - awareness.
Because when you look back on things you have done to others, even knowing you did so out of limited-awareness, the pain of that can almost be unbearable. To understand not only those specific moments in time, the impact of those words or actions, but how it shaped said person. How it may have caused them to turn inward, to doubt, to fear, to be angry or sad, and how they then went on to affect others in these states, and on. And then you'll have to take it to the next level, and work on forgiving yourself.

And sometimes people use punishment to form a boundary, draw a line in the sand. Which is understandable. And the 'offender' may comply, and not do that one particular thing again. But it's not going to show them the why, only a consequence. Their level of awareness will be the same, which will come out in various other ways. So when they get it, it's no longer a problem.. no need for apology. And until they get it, an apology is just a social nicety, or a power play.

Eh, it's too late for me to get into why I think we are all striving for similar states of being, at varying levels of awareness and different approaches, or what I think happens when we, as energy beings, split our energy from what we really want, and what we think we should want. SO I'll just leave it as this.

Beautiful post. I think in essence I totally understand and agree with what you're saying. You're right, it is very complex; and tricky and nuanced in application and interaction/life. A big continuum of awareness and pain out there. But thanks for elaborating and articulating.

 

[Kheledon]

I value honesty and sincerity. Thus, I rarely apologize, but, when I do, it's sincere. Getting an apology from me means something.

I very much dislike it when people apologize out of habit. My mother-in-law does this. She'll say something like, "I'm sorry, but I really don't like Hillary Clinton." This bugs me because that statement demands no apology. My M-I-L will apologize for merely having opinions, and that's not apology-worthy in my book. On the other hand, when my mother-in-law does something that actually warrants an apology, it will never happen. She won't apologize when she's in the wrong--only when she's not. I find that irritating.

And then there's the person who apologizes all the time but who has actually done something apology-worthy. This behavior bugs me when the person in question has done the same, apology-worthy thing multiple times, but continues the same behavior followed by yet another apology for it. In such cases, I resent the apology because it feels deceptive and manipulative. I find myself thinking, "If you were truly sorry the first time, you wouldn't do the same thing over and over again." At this point, apologies become farce.

 

[Morpeko]

How do you view it?

How do you do it?

My views depend on how big the mistake was.

It doesn't happen very often. I noticed I write long-ass letters whenever I apologize for something, actually. I try my best to explain that I actually realize that what I did was wrong and what I have learned from the experience. I just like to explain myself as best I can. I think I perceived it to make my apology seem authentic... but it probably doesn't. I do try to fix my mistakes, though.

Do you do it? Do you do it often?

I'm a fucking oaf so I bump into people all the time in public (even during social distancing... my sense of space is bad). I apologize in all those instances, because as Coriolis said, it's a social courtesy. It doesn't take much time and people who don't say sorry in those instances just look like asses.

How do you value the act?

I don't value it at all. I don't believe any "Sorries" I hear. They better be backing up whatever they did with actions clearly showing they are attempting to fix their mistake or else an apology is worthless.

 

[J. Starke]

I think people should apologize more. But don't apologize for something that wasn't your fault.

 

[Saturnal Snowqueen]

How do you view it?

I don't really question it much. But maybe it's because I don't into fights much. I think there are certain circumstances where if you don't apologize it'll rub me the wrong way. If you bump into me at the store and don't apologize, I'll be like, "Ok lady", and it'll rub me the wrong way. If we have fought and then you apologize, I don't really think about the sincerity of it(well I might question it but it doesn't really play into my choices). I just say ok, and then we'll try this again.

How do you do it?

Funnily enough, I don't actually say the words "sorry" much-might say something like, "Oops!", instead of a straight up apology. It all depends on the seriousness of the situation. In situations where people are giving me the cold shoulder, I get more scared to actually say the word sorry because everything is just so tense. I usually just sulk about and try to show I'm sorry through my actions instead.

Do you do it? Do you do it often?

I do it pretty often, mostly when I make stupid mistakes or when I bump into people. The only time I don't really do it if I know it's something I know we can laugh about. But yeah, I try to do it because it's a polite thing to do, and so I don't look like a rude and careless person.

How do you value the act?

Meh, it's a nice thing to do, but at the same time part of me sees it as a shallow social courtesy. I don't like saying sorry if it's not authentic, I say sorry if what I did made me disappointed in myself.

 

[Red Memories]

How do you view it?: To me, an apology is a starting point. It is the opportunity to bridge an issue and open communication after a negative interaction.

How do you do it?: When I apologize, I try to be sincere, and to directly state what I did which I am apologizing for. This creates a line of action or an opportunity for the other person to find where we miscommunicated. Like... "I know I did x, and I thought in the moment I meant x, but it was wrong and I am sorry."

Do you do it? Do you do it often?: I will apologize any time that I feel the need. As some mentioned, I may also apologize as a courtesy if I bump into someone or such. I don't think I give genuine heartfelt apologies often because that sort of apology implies that I believe the bridge can be mended and also that I was to do so. There are often times I choose to burn that bridge and will never apologize merely because I don't see a point and perhaps I feel I have nothing to actually be sorry for.

How do you value the act?: I dislike insincere apologies made with passive aggression built into them. Do not apologize to me unless you intend to take responsibility and mend the situation. As a gesture of, I'm sorry you feel that way or etc. is different. But if your apology is ridden with "oh I'm sorry I did that but." or "I'm sorry *goes on continuing to do the exact thing that left us fighting*" or "I cannot handle conflict so I'm sorry." as if you just apologize JUST thinking that'll make things okay with me I'd rather you not apologize at all. If you do not sincerely want to change the situation do not apologize to me.

 

[theablekingedgar]

How do you view it?

How do you do it?

Do you do it? Do you do it often?

How do you value the act?

Id post more but I dont want to. I talked about it just 5 minutes ago, but I want this thread to be as unbiased as possible really. Not based off of my sentimentality. I am curious.

For me, it's a necessary part of fixing relationships or maintaining them. It takes two to tango, no matter the relationship. So I always apologise if thre is cause to.

I tell the person straight that I fucked up, or if they confront me with something I did wrong.

Yes, I do it often. I don't see why it I shouldn't.

I think it's a required part of maintaining relationships. If I don't apologise, then people will distance from me, not trust me, and that fucks me up ultimately. It's also part projection on my part. I don't like it when others arrogantly don't accept their conduct, so I try not to be way.,

 

[Coriolis]

How do you do it? Different ways. But the root of it is I break away from my "justified" mindset and suffer the scalding empathy of the opponent's perspective. Taking off the armor of pride, and laying down arms in the midst of a fight, is not easy, and the consequences are not guaranteed, your opponent might simply decide to strike the killing blow.

Are you always able to understand the other person's perspective? What happens when you cannot? Does that make it difficult to give a genuine apology? Do you always view the other person as an opponent?

Do you do it? Do you do it often? Growing up I was forced to apologize for things that werent my fault, just to make the cycle of suffering end. As I've grown up, I've found myself having to do it, because the way I was raised it turns out is pretty far from "normal" and to socialize with humans out side of that environment, apologies sometimes are necessary. whether they are "deserved" or not.

So in those situations, someone else told you something was your fault but you disagreed? Was it always clear that you were not at fault? Did apologizing in these cases really end the circle of suffering, or just shift it to you?

I value it the way that only someone who had to spend a good chunk of their life being made to feel like I didn't deserve any, but I was obligated to take the heat for both sides of a conflict. Because that's ultimately what an apology is: an acknowledgement. A white flag of peace waved in the midst of a conflict. I value it like one values any scarce resource like potable water. from a social sense.

I would find that hard to take. There are two sides to any interaction, and each person must take responsibility for their side/part. To do otherwise just looks like a denial of reality. It's fine to be the one that waves the peace flag, but it has to be accepted and aknowledged as such by the other person. You can't make peace alone.

How do you view it?: To me, an apology is a starting point. It is the opportunity to bridge an issue and open communication after a negative interaction.

How do you do it?: When I apologize, I try to be sincere, and to directly state what I did which I am apologizing for. This creates a line of action or an opportunity for the other person to find where we miscommunicated. Like... "I know I did x, and I thought in the moment I meant x, but it was wrong and I am sorry."

I like that description: a starting point. Too often, people seem to treat it as an ending, apologizing or asking for an apology to put something behind them. If there is no further discussion to address the issue, the apology itself becomes meaningless. What do you do when someone expects you to apologize, but you honestly have no idea what you did wrong? When the other person doesn't take up that opportunity to find where the miscommunication was?

Do you do it? Do you do it often?: I will apologize any time that I feel the need. As some mentioned, I may also apologize as a courtesy if I bump into someone or such. I don't think I give genuine heartfelt apologies often because that sort of apology implies that I believe the bridge can be mended and also that I was to do so. There are often times I choose to burn that bridge and will never apologize merely because I don't see a point and perhaps I feel I have nothing to actually be sorry for.

As The Cat describes above, have you ever apologized just to make peace or smooth things over, even if you feel you haven't done anything wrong?

How do you value the act?: I dislike insincere apologies made with passive aggression built into them. Do not apologize to me unless you intend to take responsibility and mend the situation. As a gesture of, I'm sorry you feel that way or etc. is different. But if your apology is ridden with "oh I'm sorry I did that but." or "I'm sorry *goes on continuing to do the exact thing that left us fighting*" or "I cannot handle conflict so I'm sorry." as if you just apologize JUST thinking that'll make things okay with me I'd rather you not apologize at all. If you do not sincerely want to change the situation do not apologize to me.

I agree. As I posted earlier in the thread, for me an apology is at best an acknowlegment that you did something wrong or hurtful, and a commitment to do better in future. That is why apologizing when I don't see how I am at fault is so frustrating. Even if I am somehow at fault and just don't realize it, if I don't understand what I did to begin with, I cannot even begin to fix it or improve.

For me, it's a necessary part of fixing relationships or maintaining them. It takes two to tango, no matter the relationship. So I always apologise if thre is cause to.

I tell the person straight that I fucked up, or if they confront me with something I did wrong.

Do they usually return the courtesy? Are you ever in situations, like The Cat mentioned, where you are blamed for both sides of things and the other person won't take responsiblity for their words and actions?

 

[RadicalDoubt]

How do you view it?
For the most part, an apology should be a genuine acknowledgement for fault or inconvenience/harm towards someone else, intentional or not. Often times, it can be used as a bridge for communication, but sometimes an insecure persons means of expressing insecurity/embarrassment.

How do you do it?
In frantic and nervous tangents and flits of anxiety. By saying sorry? If I'm in the wrong or trying to placate, I usually push a form of acknowledgement of the persons feelings or what action caused issue (ie. I'm sorry I ____, this was probably highly inconveniencing/I can see why that might've come across offensive. This won't happen again). If I see means to do so, I usually try to provide retribution in some form by doing something to mitigate the action or verbally expressing that I understand the persons emotions.

Do you do it? Do you do it often?
It's really more of a nervous tick than genuine at this point. Of course I also apologize genuinely as well, but it's really just an automatic response to basic things like getting in other people's space or even sneezing. As someone who grew up in a pretty emotionally reactive environment, I'm pretty quick to apologize and placate at any sign of irrational behavior that can be solved with my placation or accommodation. I sometimes apologize so that others will be more willing to hear my opinion of things.

How do you value the act?
I think apologies and expression of guilt/understanding are good when you are actually in fault. I tend to be a bit less sincere than most with it though, as sorry has become somewhat of a habituated anxious tick and something used to diffuse aggression towards me or others or even get them to consider my thoughts. I wouldn't say I'm proud of the latter. It's a tool in both sincere and non-sincere instances.

 

[theablekingedgar]

Do they usually return the courtesy? Are you ever in situations, like The Cat mentioned, where you are blamed for both sides of things and the other person won't take responsiblity for their words and actions?

Yes, it can happen. Usually, it depends on the circumstance and relationship on how I proceed.

 

[Abcdenfp]

How do you view it?

Painful!!


How do you do it?

I used to say "i am sorry if i hurt your feelings" but then i learned that it really is passive aggressive. so i say " I apologize, i shouldn't have done/ said that, i will do xyz better next time"

Do you do it? Do you do it often?

Rarely , My family never apologized they would get mad and stay mad for long bouts of time and then eventually get over things like nothing happened without addressing it. It has taken years of me unlearning this behavior and im not always good at it but if i know it will mean a lot to someone i will do it. feel very vulnerable to me though.

How do you value the act?

I have a lot of respect for persons who can apologize for something when they are truly in the wrong. I have also seen people who apologize for everything (i think this is trauma based) and i feel bad for them.

 

[LillyRoar]

Apologizing is not a big deal for me. I apologize when I need to effortlessly. But if I’m told to apologize or forced to, I just can’t for the sake of it.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I'm sorry I apologize too much.

I do apologize for things I do wrong in a focused and sincere manner, but I also use the apology phrases to also mean the situation is unfortunate regardless of fault. "I'm so sorry to hear this" if someone is sad. "I'm sorry. What happened?" if someone is upset.