Islamism and the Regressive Left

[Avocado]

Why is it that the Regressive Left allows criticism of all religions except Islam?

 

[Null]

Considering that Islam is currently the most criticized religion globally, I think that it's just way more comfortable ethically when you're defending minorities, than when you're defending groups in power. Don't know if that's the case with regressive lefts, but definitely for the general public.

 

[geedoenfj]

What religion did they allow criticism of and didn't allow it for Islam? I think no religion should be criticized or made fun of, no Christianity, no Judaism, no Islam..

 

[ceecee]

Why is it that the Regressive Left allows criticism of all religions except Islam?

It would be helpful if you expound some on the topic, not just leave an open ended question that really isn't.

This is a term popularized by Maajid Nawaz. Read his book, I have and he explains why he feels this way. In a nutshell, it's out of fear of offending. I should add that Nawaz doesn't support regressive liberalism, he is very vocal but he has a fascinating story.

Radical: My Journey Out Of Islamist Extremism: Maajid Nawaz, Tom Bromley: 9780762791361: Amazon.com: Books

 

[Riva]

What religion did they allow criticism of and didn't allow it for Islam? I think no religion should be criticized or made fun of, no Christianity, no Judaism, no Islam..

If we have no right to criticize anything and everything we'll still be living in the dark ages. One main reason for human progress is the ability and the right of humans to criticize anything, especially the norm. Add to it, religion has seldom it not ever been a reason for human progress.

A pre Christian quote which shares the sentiment above -

Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing
nor upon tradition
nor upon rumor
nor upon what is in a scripture
nor upon surmise
nor upon an axiom
nor upon specious reasoning
nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over
nor upon another's seeming ability
nor upon the consideration, he is our teacher

When you yourselves know: "These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness," enter on and abide in them.'

 

[Amargith]

Criticising is an art - it's a skill that requires mastering. It might be wise to only have competent critics critique those things that are of great importance to others while others might want to try holding their tongue until they learn how to actually communicate constructively. Similarly, some people may need some help in learning how to critique constructively instead of being afraid of offending


I definitely agree though that it is essential to improving oneself and growing as a person and a culture.

 

[Rasofy]

Their real war is against privilege

Not against bigotry, or fundamentalism

It's originated in envy, and then rationalized

Unlike Christians, Muslims are valuable political assets to the Left

 

[Cellmold]

 

[geedoenfj]

If we have no right to criticize anything and everything we'll still be living in the dark ages. One main reason for human progress is the ability and the right of humans to criticize anything, especially the norm. Add to it, religion has seldom it not ever been a reason for human progress.

A pre Christian quote which shares the sentiment above -

I would agree with you only if Judaism is allowed to be criticized just as much as Islam and Christianity, but of course I'm against any kind of making fun of others beliefs..

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I would agree with you only if Judaism is allowed to be criticized just as much as Islam and Christianity, but of course I'm against any kind of making fun of others beliefs..

I feel you may be missing the point.

If Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc had millions upon millions of adherents advocating mass murder, enslavement, and imposing their religious laws unto foreign societies, they would be criticized too.

However there seems to be a odd fondness among some Leftist for Islam, something that doesn't mess with their normally secular and progressive world views.

They just believe that if they only got into Western society, they would be happy and nice. We have posters here that express that belief.

It seems a part of the worship of multiculturalism. Which often becomes a blindness, like in the massive statutory rape ring in England, where officials knew it was taking place and did nothing. Of course if a bunch of Christians were accused of statutory rape, they would attack...oh, Bill Clinton did do that, causing many deaths among the Branch Davidians 22 years ago.

On a similar note, I have read reports of American judges giving Hmong men a pass on rape because it was alleged rape is considered part of their culture.

Ultimately, Christians are up to mockery constantly. You could even make musical making fun of a sect with gross distortions of beliefs and win lots of awards.

But cartoons of Mohammed? Hmmmmmm.

 

[geedoenfj]

I feel you may be missing the point.

If Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc had millions upon millions of adherents advocating mass murder, enslavement, and imposing their religious laws unto foreign societies, they would be criticized too.

However there seems to be a odd fondness among some Leftist for Islam, something that doesn't mess with their normally secular and progressive world views.

They just believe that if they only got into Western society, they would be happy and nice. We have posters here that express that belief.

It seems a part of the worship of multiculturalism. Which often becomes a blindness, like in the massive statutory rape ring in England, where officials knew it was taking place and did nothing. Of course if a bunch of Christians were accused of statutory rape, they would attack...oh, Bill Clinton did do that, causing many deaths among the Branch Davidians 22 years ago.

On a similar note, I have read reports of American judges giving Hmong men a pass on rape because it was alleged rape is considered part of their culture.

Ultimately, Christians are up to mockery constantly. You could even make musical making fun of a sect with gross distortions of beliefs and win lots of awards.

But cartoons of Mohammed? Hmmmmmm.

Obviously you are MIXING political ideologies which is taking a religion as cover to do all these crimes, ISIS, (which Muslims themselves are the main victims of them) WITH the religion it self..
You have to differentiate between 1 billion Muslims and hardly few thousands of retarded people which was never to be created if USA do not keep invading and mass distract countries in the name of freedom and democracy..
Islam has nothing to do with ISIS, yes there's teachings in Islam that a man should take his right if he was ever abused, but there's a strict forbiddenness of revenge and violating people's property and lives, and that's are proven more than a thousand of years ago if you read from the right sources and right translation, does media tell you that?
Does media tell you that as good as 99.99% of these ISIS people did not actually study Sharia and they're just taking some verses from here and there mixing it in a blender machine and telling you that this is Islam and you believe them but yet you do not believe the rest 1 billion amongst whom are actual Sharia scholars who spend most of their life studying it properly telling you that these are not what Islamic teachings are and that they can tell you what Islam is if you're just curious enough to know and not taking the shortcut of prejudice to jump to conclusions?
Does media tell you that if United States just give up the crap of granting freedom and joy to the world the world would be a much better place? Afghanistan and Iraq and Vietnam and many many other examples are a live evidence of that..
Does media tell you that ISIS and other extremist groups were not an issue some decades ago, and did not even exist because the nation was too busy with the Soviet Union and that even Middle East was not AT ALL involved in any religion discussions of any kind?
Does media tell you that the United States is a big war machine, if there's no enemy they create it so they can sell weapons to all the teams of the battle and gain some money in their pocket?
Imagine you are being discriminated against and called names and bullied and isolated and blamed for what other people do in your name and yet we make cartoons of your face which is not your face, just ugly monster and tell you to show this ugly ID of yourself wherever you go, because whenever you say you are that person it's like making a statement and trying to justify yourself for something you don't believe and actions you did not do, and you can never escape from it, how would you or any regular human being react? Now imagine that happening to you every single day how does that make you feel? That's how being a Muslim seeing a cartoon feels like, I hope it's clear to you why Muslims are so angry..
Jews and Africans and many people of color has been through that before, and now it's the Muslims turn, there always should be a victim in this world..

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Obviously you are MIXING political ideologies which is taking a religion as cover to do all these crimes, ISIS, (which Muslims themselves are the main victims of them) WITH the religion it self..

Actually, no. ISIS is religious. The Muslim Brotherhood is religious. Hezbollah is religious. Islam is broad. And like Christianity, not unified.

ISIS is explicitly religious, wanting to set up a Caliphate. I read a nice article on this last week.

Prior to the Iranian Revolution, the Islamic countries were secular. Only in the last 36 years have these governments gone religious.

You have to differentiate between 1 billion Muslims and hardly few thousands of retarded people which was never to be created if USA do not keep invading and mass distract countries in the name of freedom and democracy..

It isn't a few people. It is wide spread, especially since the Saudis have been pushing Wahabism.

The US role is important, but so is the British, French, and Russian role. I abhor the neocon/neoliberal aggressive interventionist internationalism.

Independent of that, there is an aggressive, expansionist, ideological part of Islam that is very real and very much at the core of the religion.

Islam has nothing to do with ISIS, yes there's teachings in Islam that a man should take his right if he was ever abused, but there's a strict forbiddenness of revenge and violating people's property and lives, and that's are proven more than a thousand of years ago if you read from the right sources and right translation, does media tell you that?
Does media tell you that as good as 100% of these ISIS people did not actually study Sharia and they're just taking some verses from her and there mixing it in a blender machine and telling you that this is Islam and you believe them but yet you do not believe the rest 1 billion which amongst them are actual Sharia scholars who spend most of their life studying it properly?

I have studied Islam and Arab culture, including with an Eqyptian native. I am well aware of the diversity of Islam and the difference historically, not just between Sunni and Shia.

But just like an Anglican can't say that a Lutheran isn't Christian, you exclude ISIS from Islam. No matter how much anyone wants to say "Islam is a religion of peace", it isn't true. It is a religion that has aspects of war and peace.

Does media tell you that if United State just give up the crap of granting freedom and joy to the world the world would be a much better place? Afghanistan and Iraq and Vietnam and many many other examples are a live evidence of that..

Partially true but irrelevant. Even without Western involvement, Islamic societies would be fighting and such. Maybe you recall the Iran-Iraq War.

Does media tell you that ISIS and other extremist groups were not an issue some decades ago, and did not even exist because the nation was too busy with the Soviet Union and that even Middle East was not AT ALL involved in any religion discussions of any kind?

Who the fuck cares about the "media"? Lol, why harp on it? I don't need "media" to tell me anything.

And the only reason there was limited religious discord pre 1979 was because all the region was heavily involved in the Cold War and dominated by dictatorships.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a hundred or so years old. Sure the PLO was secular. Saddam had a multi religion society, but like all those dictators, forcefully kept any subversion under control.

But the Saudis used Wahabism as a tool for control. It is a rather recent Muslim sect, too, less than 200 years old. Yet they have pushed this militancy to maintain power.

Does media tell you that the United States is a big war machine, if there's no enemy they create it so they can sell weapons to all the teams of the battle and gain some money in their pocket?

Lol. Really off topic. Really silly. Sure, the US makes money selling weapons, just like the Russians, the Germans, the French, the British, the Chinese, the South Africans, the Belgians, the Swedes, etc.

Imagine you are being discriminated against and called names and bullied and blamed for what other people do in your name and yet we make cartoons of your face which is not your face, just ugly monster and tell you to show this ugly ID of yourself whenever you go, because whenever you say you are that person it's like making a statement and trying to justify yourself for something you don't believe and actions you did not do, and you can never escape from it, how would you or any regular human being react? Now imagine that happening to you every single day how does that make you feel? That's how being a Muslim seeing a cartoon feels like, I hope it's clear to you why are they so angry..

Lol. Rotfl. Yeah, that is the reason for that statutory rape ring there in England, right???????

And why the terror couple in California killed the nice people who threw them a baby shower, right?????

And those brothers blew up the Boston Marathon?

And the Blind Sheik planned the first WTC bombing, right????

And the mostly Saudi crew did 9/11, right??????

And why they killed those cartoonists, right???????

And the recent Paris attack, right???????

And every other terrorists attack against the West, right?????

So, I guess the millions of Mormons should kill anyone who watched the "Book of Mormon" musical, right????? It is much worse than a cartoon in a foreign land, lol....

I have known many, many Muslims in the USA and not one had a negative experience.... of course, if they want to maintain their culture, they don't need to immigrate to the West.....

Jews and Africans and many people of color has been through that before, and now it's the Muslims turn, there always should be a victim in this world..

Lol........ They are not the victims of the world....boo hoo, poor Muslims. Silly....

Not sure why you make this so personal to you.... There are better causes and more important issues. Your overall understanding of the historical issues at play here needs improvement.

But the stark reality is that a large portion of the world's Muslims support terrorism. Many adhere to sects that are inimical to Western values and culture.

And it appears to me Western leftists support Muslims because they dislike their own culture so much. It appears to be an issue of self-hate.....

 

[geedoenfj]

Actually, no. ISIS is religious. The Muslim Brotherhood is religious. Hezbollah is religious. Islam is broad. And like Christianity, not unified.

ISIS is explicitly religious, wanting to set up a Caliphate. I read a nice article on this last week.

Prior to the Iranian Revolution, the Islamic countries were secular. Only in the last 36 years have these governments gone religious.


It isn't a few people. It is wide spread, especially since the Saudis have been pushing Wahabism.

The US role is important, but so is the British, French, and Russian role. I abhor the neocon/neoliberal aggressive interventionist internationalism.

Independent of that, there is an aggressive, expansionist, ideological part of Islam that is very real and very much at the core of the religion.



I have studied Islam and Arab culture, including with an Eqyptian native. I am well aware of the diversity of Islam and the difference historically, not just between Sunni and Shia.

But just like an Anglican can't say that a Lutheran isn't Christian, you exclude ISIS from Islam. No matter how much anyone wants to say "Islam is a religion of peace", it isn't true. It is a religion that has aspects of war and peace.



Partially true but irrelevant. Even without Western involvement, Islamic societies would be fighting and such. Maybe you recall the Iran-Iraq War.


Who the fuck cares about the "media"? Lol, why harp on it? I don't need "media" to tell me anything.

And the only reason there was limited religious discord pre 1979 was because all the region was heavily involved in the Cold War and dominated by dictatorships.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a hundred or so years old. Sure the PLO was secular. Saddam had a multi religion society, but like all those dictators, forcefully kept any subversion under control.

But the Saudis used Wahabism as a tool for control. It is a rather recent Muslim sect, too, less than 200 years old. Yet they have pushed this militancy to maintain power.


Lol. Really off topic. Really silly. Sure, the US makes money selling weapons, just like the Russians, the Germans, the French, the British, the Chinese, the South Africans, the Belgians, the Swedes, etc.


Lol. Rotfl. Yeah, that is the reason for that statutory rape ring there in England, right???????

And why the terror couple in California killed the nice people who threw them a baby shower, right?????

And those brothers blew up the Boston Marathon?

And the Blind Sheik planned the first WTC bombing, right????

And the mostly Saudi crew did 9/11, right??????

And why they killed those cartoonists, right???????

And the recent Paris attack, right???????

And every other terrorists attack against the West, right?????

So, I guess the millions of Mormons should kill anyone who watched the "Book of Mormon" musical, right????? It is much worse than a cartoon in a foreign land, lol....

I have known many, many Muslims in the USA and not one had a negative experience.... of course, if they want to maintain their culture, they don't need to immigrate to the West.....



Lol........ They are not the victims of the world....boo hoo, poor Muslims. Silly....

Not sure why you make this so personal to you.... There are better causes and more important issues. Your overall understanding of the historical issues at play here needs improvement.

But the stark reality is that a large portion of the world's Muslims support terrorism. Many adhere to sects that are inimical to Western values and culture.

And it appears to me Western leftists support Muslims because they dislike their own culture so much. It appears to be an issue of self-hate.....

What's with all that oh ho bo ho lol thing?! I never expect a discussion with you would go down that road..
And as for the crimes, you're still doing it, you're still building judgements based on crimes that some members of the society do, not on the actual legislation, that's not acceptable it's wrong..
Apparently you and I have different sources of Islam, I also studied Islamic history and civilIzation and culture, and read a little bit about Sharia, I chose to look for the sources that most stable Muslims believe in, and what was acceptable by the biggest Islamic scholars ( not Wahabis because Wahabi is a political movement and doesn't represent the majority of Muslims, and even Wahabi is not supporting the idea of ISIS) and you chose the sources that actually feeds some of the pre assumptions that you got in your mind, and you're pretty solid and sure about them even though they're all invalid, with all respect to you..
It would be nice to look for the other point of view of majority of Muslims other than the idea of 1 billion people are all brain washed with that ideology that you're talking about, but since you're apparently not willing to accept any additional sources and closed the bet on that, then I'll leave it here..

 

[Amargith]

Isn't the Islam thing a red herring though?

I mean, don't get me wrong; ISIS is very much by the Book - aka the Quoran. And in that respect, it makes it easier to understand where they're coming from and what they want. And it does seem that what they want is war with infidels.

But, in the larger sense, we've had elements in Western Society (such as Hitler, on a large scale, and Cult extremists on a smaller scale, to even individuals in jails on the smallest scale) that do this shit as well. In the end it comes down to this:

Do they impose their own will and are they willing to harm others in order to get what they believe in?

If so, what can we do to stop them from harming our society and our citizens?


That means that it's not Islam that's the defining factor - it's the way it's been practised. It's a wonderful tool for seeing how those people's minds work, but that's it. The same is true for those West-borough baptists (is that what they're called again?) who are incredibly hateful christians, or even the big catholic church regarding the sheltering of pedophiles, imho.

Whatever their reasons - and as much as I am for understanding them so we can understand where they're coming from and find some common ground to edge them away from harming others - people who harm others are usually isolated and kept away from those they would harm for a reason. This is no different - though, I'd love to see the system grow past judgement and punishment already and onto actual rehabilitation and psychological guidance and healing, and this is btw, where the reasoning, the understanding and the cultural influences *should* matter to help them untangle the reasons for their own behaviour and to see if we can in fact reintegrate them into society by finding common ground and addressing some of those beliefs that are harmful, but then that's a whole other discussion.

The article that was posted here on the motives of ISIS also mentioned the same thing - though not without its problems, the actual isolation of the caliphate may be our best bet in dealing with them as they have a prophesy to live up to. If we can stop that prophesy from progressing, disillusionment will set in. Meanwhile, the caliph is required to show his people this progress in order to remain caliph. Hopefully, the caliphate will implode on itself. Unfortunately, it will cost time, lives and resources to accomplish this.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

What's with all that oh ho bo ho lol thing?! I never expect a discussion with you would go down that road..
Apparently you and I have different sources of Islam, I chose to look for the ones that most stable Muslims believe in, and what was acceptable by the biggest Islamic scholars ( not Wahabis because Wahabi is a political movement and doesn't represent the majority of Muslims, and even Wahabi is not supporting the idea of ISIS) and you chose the sources that actually feeds some of the pre assumptions that you got in your mind, it would be nice to look for the other point of view of majority of Muslims other than 1 billion people are all brain washed with that bs that you're talking about, but since you're apparently not willing to listen, then I'll leave it here..

Hey, you went down the road trying to Fe me, I just used Fe back ... I am well studied in this field and have discussed it many times.

The problem you might be having us that Islam is diverse. Many adherents are good, humble, loving people. I have greatly enjoyed every individual Muslim I have met.

However, the religion isn't monolithic. And Wahabism isn't a political movement, but a political tool, and the source of much of the discord. The Saudis have always been in a precarious position. The royal family isn't part of the larger population, so needed a tool for control. They knew having Mecca that needed to present the veneer of religiosity. Wahabism was the tool, but it is a religious tool being used for a secular purpose.

However, the Saudis have exported radicalism in an effort for domestic stability.

The Iranians have also aggressively used religion to expand political control. They use it extensively since they are not Arabs and so can't use Arab nationalism.

Again, historical Islam is very bloody and aggressive through most v of its history. They were periods of enlightenment, but those were exceptions, not the rule. But it isn't unified. There is no one official Islam.

ISIS claims to be religious. They have proclaimed a Caliph, a religious office. Just because some Muslims object doesn't change the religious nature of the movement.

Again, why do you feel so tied into Islam that you can't see the truth about the entirety of the culture, bad with the good? Why defend it so? It appears to be an emotional issue for you. And many on the Left. I have no idea where you sit on the political spectrum, so I am not assuming you are a Leftist.

It appears to be Orientalism for many.

Yes, most Muslims are nice good people, but the line between good Muslim and good Muslim terrorist is very small. Radicalization is very easy. And wide spread. Mosques are recruiting grounds. And sympathy is huge for the various groups.

Again, it shocks me that people who are generally against everything in modern Western society are defended and honored by Leftists.

 

[geedoenfj]

Hey, you went down the road trying to Fe me, I just used Fe back ... I am well studied in this field and have discussed it many times.

The problem you might be having us that Islam is diverse. Many adherents are good, humble, loving people. I have greatly enjoyed every individual Muslim I have met.

However, the religion isn't monolithic. And Wahabism isn't a political movement, but a political tool, and the source of much of the discord. The Saudis have always been in a precarious position. The royal family isn't part of the larger population, so needed a tool for control. They knew having Mecca that needed to present the veneer of religiosity. Wahabism was the tool, but it is a religious tool being used for a secular purpose.

However, the Saudis have exported radicalism in an effort for domestic stability.

The Iranians have also aggressively used religion to expand political control. They use it extensively since they are not Arabs and so can't use Arab nationalism.

Again, historical Islam is very bloody and aggressive through most v of its history. They were periods of enlightenment, but those were exceptions, not the rule. But it isn't unified. There is no one official Islam.

ISIS claims to be religious. They have proclaimed a Caliph, a religious office. Just because some Muslims object doesn't change the religious nature of the movement.

Again, why do you feel so tied into Islam that you can't see the truth about the entirety of the culture, bad with the good? Why defend it so? It appears to be an emotional issue for you. And many on the Left. I have no idea where you sit on the political spectrum, so I am not assuming you are a Leftist.

It appears to be Orientalism for many.

Yes, most Muslims are nice good people, but the line between good Muslim and good Muslim terrorist is very small. Radicalization is very easy. And wide spread. Mosques are recruiting grounds. And sympathy is huge for the various groups.

Again, it shocks me that people who are generally against everything in modern Western society are defended and honored by Leftists.

I also studied Islamic history, culture, civilization and the life of Mohammed, and a little bit of Sharia and know all about Wahabism and Iran and so, but I don't think it's a bloody history, yes there were wars just like any nation in the world, I guess it's a human nature but this does not make Islamic history specifically bloody, I know it's under microscope because of terrorism, but that does not identify the religion or the history..

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I also studied Islamic history, culture, civilization and the life of Mohammed, and a little bit of Sharia and know all about Wahabism and Iran and so, but I don't think it's a bloody history, yes there were wars just like any nation in the world, I guess it's a human nature but this does not make Islamic history specifically bloody, I know it's under microscope because of terrorism, but that does not identify the religion or the history..

Islam expanded due to war mostly, not peaceful conversion, except in few locations. The various sects are violently opposed to each other. I don't see Catholics killing Baptists today, but Sunnis and Shias are very violent and bloody today

I oppose all wars and conflicts done in the name of religion. Yet today only adherents of one religion seem determined to kill others, enslave others, and claim a religious purpose in doing so. Perhaps it is a cultural thing, not a religious thing. But the very groups conducting terrorism are doing so explicitly in the name of their religion.

Does not the only major religion currently leading to mass terrorism bare some responsibility for the culture that encourages such behavior?

If the mosques are such great recruiting grounds, isn't there a reason to be considered?

I have studied this matter for more than 30 years. And I can't say Islam as a whole is free of responsibility here for the culture.

Now, I am very opposed to much of the US foreign policy in the Middle East for my lifetime. I feel Westerns have intervened disastrously. I am not afraid to admit the errors.

I believe many in the West can only see the positive aspects of Islam and only the negative aspects of their own culture.

 

[Coriolis]

What religion did they allow criticism of and didn't allow it for Islam? I think no religion should be criticized or made fun of, no Christianity, no Judaism, no Islam..

I think every religion should be criticised, which is a quite different matter from making fun of it.

If Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc had millions upon millions of adherents advocating mass murder, enslavement, and imposing their religious laws unto foreign societies, they would be criticized too.

However there seems to be a odd fondness among some Leftist for Islam, something that doesn't mess with their normally secular and progressive world views.

Islam right now is the proverbial canary in the mineshaft. If we allow governments to use the reality of violence by groups calling themselves Muslim to justify prejudice toward all Muslims, we set a precedent for allowing religious discrimination that we will regret later.

Actually, no. ISIS is religious. The Muslim Brotherhood is religious. Hezbollah is religious. Islam is broad. And like Christianity, not unified.

ISIS is explicitly religious, wanting to set up a Caliphate. I read a nice article on this last week.

Prior to the Iranian Revolution, the Islamic countries were secular. Only in the last 36 years have these governments gone religious.

ISIS is religious in the same manner that the Spanish Inquisition was religious. It certainly didn't represent "What would Jesus do?".

It isn't a few people. It is wide spread, especially since the Saudis have been pushing Wahabism.

This is a much bigger issue than trying to keep out refugees at home. The consistent US support the Saudi government is hypocritical. Still, the Saudi government does not commit violent acts against the US, and our policy seems to be that autocratic governments can do what they like, as long as they keep it within their own borders.

But just like an Anglican can't say that a Lutheran isn't Christian, you exclude ISIS from Islam. No matter how much anyone wants to say "Islam is a religion of peace", it isn't true. It is a religion that has aspects of war and peace.

Same with Christianity and Judaism.

And every other terrorists attack against the West, right?????

So, I guess the millions of Mormons should kill anyone who watched the "Book of Mormon" musical, right????? It is much worse than a cartoon in a foreign land, lol....

I can come up with a list of Christians who have committed large-scale acts of violence. We just didn't use the word "terrorism" for them until recently, and now for some reason, we want to reserve that word for violence committed by Muslims. No double standards.

I have known many, many Muslims in the USA and not one had a negative experience.... of course, if they want to maintain their culture, they don't need to immigrate to the West.....

Do you want to tell the Italians to stop eating pasta, and the Chinese to stop celebrating lunar new year, and the Indians to stop opening restaurants featuring Indian cuisine, and the Greeks to stop using Greek in their orthodox worship? No immigrant group has been told to check their culture at the door as a precondition of entering the US. American culture is richer for the many cultural elements brought here from other parts of the world. We expect immigrants to add to their toolbox when they come here, learning English, and how our system of government works so they can be contributing members of society. The things they need to give up are relatively few, and confined to actions, not thoughts and beliefs.

 

[ceecee]

I can come up with a list of Christians who have committed large-scale acts of violence. We just didn't use the word "terrorism" for them until recently, and now for some reason, we want to reserve that word for violence committed by Muslims. No double standards.

The KKK has existed for 150 years and is certainly a terrorist group. So are the Phineas Priesthood, Aryan Nations, The Army Of God, Jewish Defense League...none of them Muslim. I have no idea why they are not looked upon as terrorists by the general American public, they are to every US law enforcement organization. Every one of these pieces of shit should be dealt with exactly the same way we would treat any ISIS/Al Qaeda/AQAP./al-Shabaab.... terrorist anywhere. There is no difference.

 

[geedoenfj]

Islam expanded due to war mostly, not peaceful conversion, except in few locations. The various sects are violently opposed to each other. I don't see Catholics killing Baptists today, but Sunnis and Shias are very violent and bloody today

I oppose all wars and conflicts done in the name of religion. Yet today only adherents of one religion seem determined to kill others, enslave others, and claim a religious purpose in doing so. Perhaps it is a cultural thing, not a religious thing. But the very groups conducting terrorism are doing so explicitly in the name of their religion.

.

There were wars but no one was forced to join the religion, and in fact most of these people joined without wars at all, only by relationships with Arab traders..
And terrorism has only a political aspect, and was created by western countries and Iran, if they determine to make a Christianity terrorism believe me they can make it, there are some things in Bible about fighting and some dark middle ages history that they can utilize in that matter, there are in fact some terrorism committed by non Muslim groups in this world but only Muslims are getting under the microscope..

Does not the only major religion currently leading to mass terrorism bare some responsibility for the culture that encourages such behavior?

If the mosques are such great recruiting grounds, isn't there a reason to be considered?

How much do you know about the culture and the religion?
No it's not to be blamed, there are other factors that created that kind of terrorism which if has ever existed in Islamic history, they are exactly the ones that Mohammed warned people about them that they would come after his death, and their ideology and was fought by the most trusted people Mohammed had, and in fact they lost their lives as cost of fighting those terrorists.. They were called "Khawarej" means "out laws"..
And they were actually a result of conspiracy that some other powers in the region at that time tried to attack Islam from the inside by political disagreements using those people, but when they found out that even in their wars and fighting each other, they did not lose the respect and the feeling of unity as one nation, that's why they then turned it to a belief disagreement, and that's how Shia appeared in the region..

I have studied this matter for more than 30 years. And I can't say Islam as a whole is free of responsibility here for the culture.

What did you study? Did you read Quraan, Sunna, the sources of legislations?
I can't believe you read about it properly and yet come up with all these wrong ideas and aggressive attitude..

I believe many in the West can only see the positive aspects of Islam and only the negative aspects of their own culture.

Really? I didn't know that