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23 signs you are secretly a narcissist masquerading as a sensitive introvert

uumlau

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My rider is starting to believe that there is no such thing as an intellectual exercise. The elephant is always involved.

Both my rider and my elephant are starting to believe that sometimes a metaphor can be overused. ;)

Not that I should complain - it means that it's served it's purpose and people have learned from it.
 

Eilonwy

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Both my rider and my elephant are starting to believe that sometimes a metaphor can be overused. ;)

Not that I should complain - it means that it's served it's purpose and people have learned from it.

Well, I could use the metaphor of lizard brain, monkey brain, and human brain from another book I read. Basically the same concept used in a different context. Monkey brain pretty much equals elephant and monkey brain is in charge. :devil:
 

Firebird 8118

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Scored 46 on that one - I suppose a little narcissism is healthy enough. :alttongue:
 
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I scored a 78. I guess that would make me borderline? Deep down I was worried that I could be a narcissist just because I am so self-absorbed and can be really selfish at times. I can be really irritable towards other people, mainly family members, but immediately realize how much of an a** I came off across because I have a tendency to be really blunt and say things without thinking about what I say beforehand. I would afterwards feel really bad and beat myself up on it, because I don't generally feel as bitter towards that person. I was just at the moment in a bad mood or extremely focused on something that i tend to get angry if interrupted.

I have always been extremely sensitive and self-critical of myself ever since I was a child. I wish I wouldn't take things to heart and not rely on my feelings too much, but it's something I can't really help. When criticized, I do try to analyze why I was criticized and try not to take it to heart, but again I get sentimental feelings about it regardless. I think that makes me a HSP? However, I think what makes me differ from a typical narcissist is that I can empathize with people, so much so that I can envision what it would feel like if I was in their shoes. I also acknowledge that I have faults and many things to work on in order to better myself. I used to just see the worst in myself, but am just now realizing that I do have good qualities too. In fact, I see the good and the bad in everyone because I know that not everyone is a perfect human. I also try not to see the glass as half empty, because I know that nothing good can come from that.

I honestly wouldn't consider myself a narcissist. I do think the test is a bit flawed, because I can empathize with people and I don't expect others to do things for me. I am not a special snowflake and understand that other people have it much worse than I do. I am thankful for what I have. I guess I do have tendencies, but it mainly stems from being so self-critical. I am not as critical towards other people at all. The high score I got could be because I am just extremely sensitive and have very low self-esteem. But I would assume that would be the opposite of a narcissist? I can be a d*ck at times, but who isn't? Anyways I'm rambling way too much...
 

Forever

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[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION],

My take is...the INFJ section of that article you linked to feels like a writing problem mostly. The author goes "Enter the INFJ", right in an early heading like they're setting up the subject of the article, but next section, drops that type focus abruptly never to mention it again. Even if they did, the typology bit would still stick out as awkwardly narrow and inessential to the main point when compared to the advice that follows, which targets anybody who can relate (like, so can I to more points than I'd like).

It reads like they changed their mind about their audience halfway through and forgot to edit the beginning. I agree with that change of mind, though:

:notype:

Stay. :)

Can I say and (excuse me for the long-time to respond) thank you Alaska. When you responded I felt a light shining in my heart. What you saw was very true and yet you told me that there was something still a worthwhile there to read. Even if I am not a covert narcissist, the advice there is something to look and appreciate.

And thank you for the note of concern. :) :yes:

And [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] I too was grateful you replied to say that.

[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION], I wouldn't take online narcissism test results too seriously. It's just a quick online test *and* narcissists on the extreme end aren't likely to begin to admit they have a problem, or even entertain the possibility for very long. Paragraph from the book I mentioned to describe what I'm talking about:

When feeling special becomes an addiction, there's no room to acknowledge any flaws, no matter how obvious they are to everyone else. People like Gary are notoriously bad partners and friends. The lack of empathy hobbles them relationally, leading them to frequent lies and infidelity. But people who live around 9 don't see it. In fact, ask them if they're comfortable with deeper intimacy, capable of sharing sadness and loneliness with those they care about, and they'll often say they're good at that, too. They have such little self-awareness they can't even recognize the limits of their own ability to love.


[When he says "9", he's talking about on a scale of one to ten. So, really narcissistic.]

I'll only add to the above that sometimes they actually do acknowledge flaws, but not the flaws they actually have- they'll concede to having other flaws that have little or nothing to do with their worst flaws. I'm not sure I can remember the explanation for that enough right now to do it justice- something about it being 'safer' to get rejected for flaws that aren't real than to get rejected for flaws they truly have, and conceding to having some flaws is all part of perfecting the 'false self' because it adds a veneer of humility.

It's one thing to be needy, it's another to be narcissistic. Both are needy, but narcissists won't admit it. Especially to themselves. They suck the life of out of people because they're needy, but it's like they see giving someone an opportunity to interact with them as some kind of gift instead of the energy-suck that it is. When their needs don't feel met, they get angry at others for not seeing what a gift their presence bestows on the world. I haven't interacted a whole lot with you, but from a few recent posts- in which you pretty much admit you feel very needy- I'd say this is just a case of feeling needy instead (and there's nothing wrong with that: it sucks to experience, I've certainly been there, I'll certainly be there again, and ultimately it's actually an experience to be grateful for because it can strengthen compassion). I don't think someone who is truly on the far side of narcissism would admit to feeling needy (unless they admit to feeling needy in a confabulated way, for the reason I described in previous paragraph).

****

I also just want to point out that narcissists (in whatever degree) can empathize- as pointed out in the description of the communal narcissist, they can actually have an identity based on being empathetic, and have quite a few people seeing them as being genuinely empathetic because they can genuinely empathize- it's just that they empathize when it's easy. It's easy to empathize with people who make us feel good. Narcissists can be very good at getting others to idealize them (in large part because they idealize themselves, and overconfident people are likely to be overrated), and it's VERY easy to empathize with people who idealize us. But it becomes a challenge when there's something threatening about a person. <- This is true about everyone, more or less- but narcissists have an exceptionally low threshold for external threats (fragile ego) and this tendency for empathy to shut off when threatened is amplified for them. [Not to mention, they're so preoccupied with getting their needs met that they have very few internal resources to give- but they see the empathy they do dole out as being more 'special'/important than it actually is/than that of others.]

Even extreme narcissists empathize- but it's the cold empathy, where they use it to figure out how to elicit the reaction they want, it's not actually about caring in any unconditional capacity.

Hey thanks for the additional information Z Buck McFate, I don't think I need to worry so much about being a narcissist than just worrying about how people perceive me, I do accept help more than the usual person but I am being better at not being babied either. I understand there are some things I cannot do alone (and definitely healthy to recognize that) and other things I may just have to untangle the web itself whether it be in the real world or my own thoughts and emotions.

And I did take a class on abnormal psychology, it is indeed that narcissist will not admit that they are narcissists at all. When it comes to my enemies online and outside, I always try to consider the opposing view, if I can try to assess how my personal feelings would come into play if someone were to do my action or something similar to it. I really do try to make sure what I'm saying holds some ground and I'm usually willing to submit if the person has a valid or very rational way of telling me something. I don't really appeal to emotional arguments unless I can see that the individual is truly being personally hurt in a way will undermine their well-being.

Plus I think it may be safe to say that if I were displaying quite narcissistic things, would it be fair to say to all YouTubers/Musicians/Actors/anyone in the entertainment industry to be narcissistic, now I think this forum would definitely disagree. :laugh:
 

Thalassa

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I suspected one of my clients as possibly being a covert narcissist, but there was no way to prove this, he could have just been a socially awkward asshole...except one day when he paid me, he gave me a copy of the book he self published as a "gift." Thinking at worst it was probably average fantasy sci-fI dragon crap I'm not interested in anyway, I sat it aside.

Then the day came when I decided to pick it up.

Not only was the prose torturously amateur and adolescent (he's got to be near or slightly past 40) ...but...the main character was obviously him, in physical detail...except he repeatedly pointed out this "character" was better looking than other guys at the office, not one of those computer nerds, a better class of fellow (yes, you read correctly he's pushing 40 not 14) ...with striking angular features, unlike those round faced guys, and was popular with the ladies.

Wait, there's more.

Within the first fifty pages, a full figured beautiful coworker throws a party with the intention of just getting to know him, because he's so aloof and handsome and mysterious, and abruptly reschedules the party after a one night stand with him, because screw her friends, the party was only to hook up with him. Also, after dating for less than 24 hours, the characters I've described tell each other they love each other.

Bear in mind, this is all deadpan serious, not in the least bit tongue in cheek or sarcastic, nor written with the self conscious charm of a gum shoe detective novel. No, apparently this was to be the character development that led up to slaying dragons or something, I don't know, I could not bring myself to continue reading.

I laughed to myself for about an hour and donated the book to Goodwill. I probably should have burned his self published narcissistic fantasy, but who am I to deprive the general public of a laugh? It certainly won't be picked up by a major publishing house anytime in this century.
 

Eilonwy

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I suspected one of my clients as possibly being a covert narcissist, but there was no way to prove this, he could have just been a socially awkward asshole...except one day when he paid me, he gave me a copy of the book he self published as a "gift." Thinking at worst it was probably average fantasy sci-fI dragon crap I'm not interested in anyway, I sat it aside.

Then the day came when I decided to pick it up.

Not only was the prose torturously amateur and adolescent (he's got to be near or slightly past 40) ...but...the main character was obviously him, in physical detail...except he repeatedly pointed out this "character" was better looking than other guys at the office, not one of those computer nerds, a better class of fellow (yes, you read correctly he's pushing 40 not 14) ...with striking angular features, unlike those round faced guys, and was popular with the ladies.

Wait, there's more.

Within the first fifty pages, a full figured beautiful coworker throws a party with the intention of just getting to know him, because he's so aloof and handsome and mysterious, and abruptly reschedules the party after a one night stand with him, because screw her friends, the party was only to hook up with him. Also, after dating for less than 24 hours, the characters I've described tell each other they love each other.

Bear in mind, this is all deadpan serious, not in the least bit tongue in cheek or sarcastic, nor written with the self conscious charm of a gum shoe detective novel. No, apparently this was to be the character development that led up to slaying dragons or something, I don't know, I could not bring myself to continue reading.

I laughed to myself for about an hour and donated the book to Goodwill. I probably should have burned his self published narcissistic fantasy, but who am I to deprive the general public of a laugh? It certainly won't be picked up by a major publishing house anytime in this century.

What problem does labeling this guy a narcissist solve? From my pov, it looks like the problem solved is that now he can be dismissed and no more energy has to be put into him. If, instead, he was labeled as a human being who lacked the social tools and experiences that he needed to relate well with real-life women, so that he could meet his needs for companionship and connection, well, then, compassion might require that some energy be put into helping him. Yes, there are the possibilities that he can't be helped, or that he needs professional help and there's not much any one individual can do to help him. In that case, labeling him as a human with human failings rather than as a narcissist is more helpful to the person doing the labeling. It's an opportunity to examine some "negative" feelings of disgust, or dislike, or fear. It's much more socially acceptable to say he disgusts you because he is a narcissist than to simply say that he disgusts you. It's still judgment, but simply saying that he disgusts you makes it about about the person labeling instead of the person being labeled.
 

Reborn Relic

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The last time I took this test, I scored like a 70 or so. I could see it, but at the same time I've gotten a bit of a handle on some of my younger hangups, so that'd affect it.

Maybe I'll take it again later. XD
 

Thalassa

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What problem does labeling this guy a narcissist solve? From my pov, it looks like the problem solved is that now he can be dismissed and no more energy has to be put into him. If, instead, he was labeled as a human being who lacked the social tools and experiences that he needed to relate well with real-life women, so that he could meet his needs for companionship and connection, well, then, compassion might require that some energy be put into helping him. Yes, there are the possibilities that he can't be helped, or that he needs professional help and there's not much any one individual can do to help him. In that case, labeling him as a human with human failings rather than as a narcissist is more helpful to the person doing the labeling. It's an opportunity to examine some "negative" feelings of disgust, or dislike, or fear. It's much more socially acceptable to say he disgusts you because he is a narcissist than to simply say that he disgusts you. It's still judgment, but simply saying that he disgusts you makes it about about the person labeling instead of the person being labeled.

NPD is a dangerous disorder because people who have it don't have normal levels of adult human empathy. That's not to say that they're murderers, but they tend to destroy their loved ones emotionally. He clearly seeks out an insecure woman with poor boundaries who will make him the center of the universe, putting him before friends or even personal dignity. Some symptoms of NPD include grandiose fantasies of an impossible perfect love (which is why it's weird a 40 year old would attempt to portray a serious romance in which people say I love you after dating for one day - these are normal fantasies for teens, they become unhealthy the older the person becomes, as an adult especially in middle age one should understand the difference between love and infatuation, NPD sufferers tend to firm shallow unstable relationships)...they also have warped views of their strengths and weaknesses, I would never put thus guy down to his face, but he's average, he's actually obese and balding, he's certainly not the hottest guy on the planet...but even if he was Jared Leto, by age 40 one should have more character developed than to elevate themselves above others over petty things like appearance, it's sort of like Donald Trump always talking about what a winner he is...it's like..if you were really a winner, why do you keep telling us, and what is your proof? Similar thing here.

In person he's just got a very arrogant, obstinate and selfish vibe, though he's not openly brazen like an extrovert who has NPD. My best guess is that he was an only child, unduly spoiled and over indulged, used to always getting his way, but angry at the world because his peers didn't treat him like the little prince his parents convinced him he was.

The point of labeling is to avoid such people in close relationships, or deal with them accordingly knowing their disorder, to ensure less hurt by their behavior. One hopes they'll get help but NPD are one of the hit and miss disorders. Many or most convince themselves everyone else is the problem or just jealous of them, but a few will make a serious effort to learn cognitive empathy in order to preserve family or marriage types of relationships.
 

Cellmold

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by age 40 one should have more character developed than to elevate themselves above others over petty things like appearance.

A common misconception. People are rarely more developed or mature just because they have lived longer.

I'd even go so far as to say that most people (including myself) aren't really more mature than when they were children, they just have more efficient filters and a more settled brain.
The call to age as a gauge of either superiority, or wisdom or experience, is most likely to be used when the person themself feels like they haven't achieved what they wanted or what status desired.

Ironically I base this off years of interacting with the general public, so my evidence base is skewed towards that majority.

Not saying this about you by the way, just a jumping off point. Sorry for the off topic.
 

Thalassa

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A common misconception. People are rarely more developed or mature just because they have lived longer.

I'd even go so far as to say that most people (including myself) aren't really more mature than when they were children, they just have more efficient filters and a more settled brain.
The call to age as a gauge of either superiority, or wisdom or experience, is most likely to be used when the person themself feels like they haven't achieved what they wanted or what status desired.

Ironically I base this off years of interacting with the general public, so my evidence base is skewed towards that majority.

Not saying this about you by the way, just a jumping off point. Sorry for the off topic.

I disagree with this view. Yes it's off topic, but I've long disagreed with the argument that age doesn't matter at all, that people don't change, that twelve year olds should be legally allowed to consent to sex with adults...while there is some truth that people mature at different rates, and some things really aren't a matter of age past a certain point....one of the gauges of personality disorders is the inherent lack of emotional maturity or wisdom in people old enough to know better. It's called being stunted, like they are frozen at a particular emotional age, often adolescence, but in severe cases, childhood.

There's a problem with American culture in general being emotionally immature, it's been observed not only in comparison to some other cultures but even to American culture as it was prior to WWII. We've been said to actually be suffering a narcissism epidemic, and it's common knowledge that the mean American maturity level about sex hovers around high school. If that's what you mean by "the general public" particularly those who have never questioned their steady diet of television, I invite you to survey a much larger sample size of humanity.
 

Haven

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I got 57, I think it's a similar score to what I got in a similar test. No surprises here. One weird thing is that I usually find failure to be quite relaxing and I don't know why.
 

Cellmold

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I disagree with this view. Yes it's off topic, but I've long disagreed with the argument that age doesn't matter at all, that people don't change, that twelve year olds should be legally allowed to consent to sex with adults...while there is some truth that people mature at different rates, and some things really aren't a matter of age past a certain point....one of the gauges of personality disorders is the inherent lack of emotional maturity or wisdom in people old enough to know better. It's called being stunted, like they are frozen at a particular emotional age, often adolescence, but in severe cases, childhood.

I'm not sure if you do disagree since I never made any of the arguments you just listed.

I was making a generalised assessment of psychological states, not to the extension of physical development or ages of consent.

There's a problem with American culture in general being emotionally immature, it's been observed not only in comparison to some other cultures but even to American culture as it was prior to WWII. We've been said to actually be suffering a narcissism epidemic, and it's common knowledge that the mean American maturity level about sex hovers around high school. If that's what you mean by "the general public" particularly those who have never questioned their steady diet of television, I invite you to survey a much larger sample size of humanity.

I'm not necessarily talking about American culture and I accept that my sample is heuristic.
 

Jeremy8419

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[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION]

I glanced over it. Looks to correlate to INFP and INFp. INFp towards the end of that spectrum (so, into deep minority of INFp) are described as basically amorous narcissists. Their dual, ESTp, towards the end of that spectrum, as well, are described as basically psychopaths. The two meet in the formation-of-groups phase that is Beta Quadra, so it's basically the meeting of two similar extremes as inclusion of the two and the exclusion of others to form a couple.

Not that learned on Enneagram, but it would most likely correlate with disintegrating 4, as INFp is a Negative Social Progress type. This would place them with an 8 ESTp.
 

Z Buck McFate

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The point of labeling is to avoid such people in close relationships, or deal with them accordingly knowing their disorder, to ensure less hurt by their behavior. One hopes they'll get help but NPD are one of the hit and miss disorders. Many or most convince themselves everyone else is the problem or just jealous of them, but a few will make a serious effort to learn cognitive empathy in order to preserve family or marriage types of relationships.


Yeah, I think there's actually more 'danger' in empathizing with a narcissist and not making oneself fully aware of how one-sided that relationship is going to be, or not identifying the imbalance is there. Even where it isn't quite NPD caliber, strong narcissistic tendencies can do a lot of damage. They are excellent at manipulating the inner resources out of people. I can remember one article I read in which the author wrote (something like) "they're like chocolate cake- always the more appealing choice in the moment, but you pay for it later." But even when they lack the charisma to start acquaintanceship on a good note (which is probably true about many covert types), they still (unconsciously) manipulate the truth in a self serving direction. They are adept at exploiting the empathy of other people to serve their own needs, quite often without even realizing they're doing it, and often wholly believing they 'love' the person they are using.

If someone labels another person a narcissist to externalize their shame or so that they can stop empathizing with their situation (which is what I'd personally call the colloquial use of the term)- without being careful of whether or not that person is truly parasitic in a narcissistic way- that speaks more about the person doing it than it does about the label of "narcissist". We all have to sleep with ourselves at night, and we only really ever need to police the extent to which we are doing this ourselves. If we are throwing the word "narcissist" around to simply justify not caring about how we effect people, then we have to be 'that person' who would do that. 'That person' generally has to live with the consequence of discrediting their own judgment.

When it's applied correctly though- it can provide some very helpful guidelines for people who must deal those who are narcissists. Because narcissists can (however inadvertently) play some really heinous mind games. Anyone who has actually had to deal with it knows. They feel entitled to use people to serve their own needs- more often than not, having no idea they're using people. They might even have an identity based on being empathetic and loving- and it's very easy to have more mindless empathy* for someone in that situation than is good for anyone involved (because it'll drain you of inner resources to constantly accommodate them and it merely enables the narcissist to keep believing the delusions that drain others in the first place).

*I actually should clarify what I mean by mindless empathy here. I personally don't think there's such a thing as "too much empathy", but I do think mindless empathy can lead people to do whatever it takes to alleviate someone else's suffering. There are certain kinds of suffering in life that aren't really avoidable, there are many aspects of life that are disappointing, and we're not doing anyone any favors when we step in alleviate the necessary kinds of suffering simply because we can't bear to see any suffering in another person.

 

Jeremy8419

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Yeah, I think there's actually more 'danger' in empathizing with a narcissist and not making oneself fully aware of how one-sided that relationship is going to be, or not identifying the imbalance is there. Even where it isn't quite NPD caliber, strong narcissistic tendencies can do a lot of damage. They are excellent at manipulating the inner resources out of people. I can remember one article I read in which the author wrote (something like) "they're like chocolate cake- always the more appealing choice in the moment, but you pay for it later." But even when they lack the charisma to start acquaintanceship on a good note (which is probably true about many covert types), they still (unconsciously) manipulate the truth in a self serving direction. They are adept at exploiting the empathy of other people to serve their own needs, quite often without even realizing they're doing it, and often wholly believing they 'love' the person they are using.

If someone labels another person a narcissist to externalize their shame or so that they can stop empathizing with their situation (which is what I'd personally call the colloquial use of the term)- without being careful of whether or not that person is truly parasitic in a narcissistic way- that speaks more about the person doing it than it does about the label of "narcissist". We all have to sleep with ourselves at night, and we only really ever need to police the extent to which we are doing this ourselves. If we are throwing the word "narcissist" around to simply justify not caring about how we effect people, then we have to be 'that person' who would do that. 'That person' generally has to live with the consequence of discrediting their own judgment.

When it's applied correctly though- it can provide some very helpful guidelines for people who must deal those who are narcissists. Because narcissists can (however inadvertently) play some really heinous mind games. Anyone who has actually had to deal with it knows. They feel entitled to use people to serve their own needs- more often than not, having no idea they're using people. They might even have an identity based on being empathetic and loving- and it's very easy to have more mindless empathy* for someone in that situation than is good for anyone involved (because it'll drain you of inner resources to constantly accommodate them and it merely enables the narcissist to keep believing the delusions that drain others in the first place).

*I actually should clarify what I mean by mindless empathy here. I personally don't think there's such a thing as "too much empathy", but I do think mindless empathy can lead people to do whatever it takes to alleviate someone else's suffering. There are certain kinds of suffering in life that aren't really avoidable, there are many aspects of life that are disappointing, and we're not doing anyone any favors when we step in alleviate the necessary kinds of suffering simply because we can't bear to see any suffering in another person.


In my experiences, you can curb a narcissist's behavior, but it's like they maintain no memory of it for future occurrences. You have to repeatedly go through the motions of behaviors. I don't have any known direct experience with autism, but curbing narcissistic behavior reminds me of what I read about babysitting and teaching kids with autism. Seems like it would really take a long time to teach a narcissistic person to be otherwise, since the reality that their behaviors actually hurt them in the long run, not benefit them, is itself dependent upon comparisons of the unfolding of events over time. Not to mention, the thought processes that go on are like them undoing a jigsaw puzzle you managed to put together and replacing it with a new unsolved jigsaw puzzle every time. What questioning and curbing opened their eyes one time, is faced with them re-writing reality to be immune to that same questioning and curbing the next time. There's also the issue of the person responsible for helping them is usually a loved one who the person seems incapable of being cognizant to this help.

Brain hurts now. Dang jigsaw puzzles.
 

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Seems like it would really take a long time to teach a narcissistic person to be otherwise, since the reality that their behaviors actually hurt them in the long run, not benefit them, is itself dependent upon comparisons of the unfolding of events over time.

The most recent book I read on this (mentioned above somewhere) actually does a decent job of delving into this- if you point out how confabulating reality in a way that serves everyone (iow: taking the feelings of others into account) actually works in their best interest in the long run, they can be swayed in that direction. It might have the best advice I've seen thus far in this regard, this book. But yeah, honestly, it takes a whole lot of exhaustive effort. I aspire to someday have that much compassion, but I'm not there yet.
 

Jeremy8419

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The most recent book I read on this (mentioned above somewhere) actually does a decent job of delving into this- if you point out how confabulating reality in a way that serves everyone (iow: taking the feelings of others into account) actually works in their best interest in the long run, they can be swayed in that direction. It might have the best advice I've seen thus far in this regard, this book. But yeah, honestly, it takes a whole lot of exhaustive effort. I aspire to someday have that much compassion, but I'm not there yet.

Looked very briefly into neurodiversity, and I tested on some test thingy as being neurotypical but having high perception of neurodiverse relationships or something; i.e., normal other than being attuned to people with odd thoughts of relationships. Taken at face-value, narcissism is definitely odd thoughts of relationships.

Stuff works, but I really swear... It's like dealing with someone with the memory of a goldfish that has to be explained and re-explained to about their relationships and mentally/verbally draw out multiple possible cause-and-effect chains for pathways of various scenarios for long time frames.

It's like the defensive mechanism rationalization taken to extreme levels, so the core defense must be tended to as well.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Stuff works, but I really swear... It's like dealing with someone with the memory of a goldfish that has to be explained and re-explained to about their relationships and mentally/verbally draw out multiple possible cause-and-effect chains for pathways of various scenarios for long time frames.

Admittedly I'm speaking only about past experience of one person when I say this, but this is my experience as well. That experience is probably exactly why my compassion for it runs so low. At least on the extreme 'dark triad' end of the spectrum, it just doesn't take root as a pattern and spread to new confabulations.
 

Jeremy8419

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Admittedly I'm speaking only about past experience of one person when I say this, but this is my experience as well. That experience is probably exactly why my compassion for it runs so low. At least on the extreme 'dark triad' end of the spectrum, it just doesn't take root as a pattern and spread to new confabulations.

Helps to think of them as children. We're all children at some point in some respects. Heck, if I had someone to cook and clean for me, I'd be about 100% just peachy every day. Terribad understanding of relationships and how things play out are the two weakest elements of an ESTj, after all.
 
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