Why Darth Vader doesn't have borderline personality disorder

[Olm the Water King]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201006/putting-darth-vader-the-couch

Putting Darth Vader On The Couch

Randi Krege

Darth Vader is no more a borderline than he is a ballerina

Did Star Wars (link is external) supervillian and deadbeat dad Darth Vader (link is external) have borderline personality disorder? (link is external) Dr. Eric Bui and his colleagues at Toulouse University Hospital in France claim that he does But it's not true: Vader is no more a borderline than he is a ballerina.

Bui and his colleagues have used Vader/Anakin as a case study to teach BPD to their medical students for the past few years. Realizing that a famous fictional example could spread awareness, they wrote a letter to the professional journal Psychiatry Research titled, "Is Anakin Skywalker [Vader's birth name] (link is external)Suffering From Borderline Personality Disorder (link is external)?" that is slated to appear in an upcoming issue. (While the letter itself isn't available, a Google search will lead to dozens more articles from both major and minor news sources.)

Bui says that as Vader/Anakin moved from childhood to adolescence, he showed problems with impulsivity, rage, and identity crisis--all of which are consistent with borderline personality disorder diagnosis. Media outlets have seized on the story as if Vader/Anakin were a real celebrity.

While the publicity is great, the example is wrong. BPD is a complex mental illness that's hard to understand and easy to misdiagnose. While Vader/Anakin seems to fit some of the criteria, a closer look shows the traits don't add up to provide a cohesive portrait of a person with the disorder.

At first glance, you might not think this is a vital topic--after all, it's just a movie. But I find it bothersome because Bui and others are using this false example to teach their psychiatric medical studients, for gosh sakes. And do we really want a mass murderer to become the newest face of those who suffer from this disorder? There are many others to use, Princess Diana (link is external) being the best one.

...

 

[prplchknz]

i didn't know darth vader's mental health was even up for question

 

[Olm the Water King]

i didn't know darth vader's mental health was even up for question

Well, apparently it was to Doctor Eric Bui.

 

[prplchknz]

Well, apparently it was to Doctor Eric Bui.

huh, goood for him i guess

 

[Snoopy22]

Darth Vader is the classic drama queen, I’m sure he would have been a big fan of Glee if it was playing in his universe.

 

[Qlip]

So, now the prequel trilogy is now the cause for psychiatric misdiagnosis as well as childhood trauma, epic scale plastic off-gassing, and middle aged cultural stockholm syndrome.

 

[Seymour]

So, now the prequel trilogy is now the cause for psychiatric misdiagnosis as well as childhood trauma, epic scale plastic off-gassing, and middle aged cultural stockholm syndrome.

Episodes 1-3 are certainly traumatic to watch. Does that count?

It's hard to blame teachers for wanting famous examples of various disorders. It's hard to get a feel for a disorder unless without being able to observe the patterns and one's own emotional reactions to them. While your neighbor/friend/spouse/whoever may be a better example, that's not helpful unless your target audience knowns them. And even discussing why someone does NOT appear to have a disorder can be helpful.

However, the characters in Episodes 1-3 hardly have enough personality to qualify as human, much less be good examples of personality disorders that run deep.

 

[magpie]

No personality disorder exists. Personality isn't a medical concept.

 

[EcK]

Occam's Razor: Darth Vador is simply an INFP

/thread

Good thread though, it's a bit unprofessional to 'seriously' diagnose DV with BPD. It would be fine if they used it as a case study. "list BPD traits in these movie characters" etc.

 

[magpie]

Occam's Razor: Darth Vador is simply an INFP

/thread

Good thread though, it's a bit unprofessional to 'seriously' diagnose DV with BPD. It would be fine if they used it as a case study. "list BPD traits in these movie characters" etc.

Yeah, but the diagnosis of BPD is based on just a list of traits.

 

[EcK]

Yeah, but the diagnosis of BPD is based on just a list of traits.

Yeah exactly, but you can't be diagnosed because you show weak signs of SOME of these signs. So it would turn this exercise into something useful, they'd still get the benefits of added appeal to their course (though less than with flashy categorical statements - i doubt it would have gone outside of that particular uni) but it would have more educational value. It's ATTRACTIVE to want to diagnose a movie character with some mental illness. So teaching kids not to fall for that (which sadly they did, because they're morons) would make for a good class.

 

[magpie]

Yeah exactly, but you can't be diagnosed because you show weak signs of SOME of these signs. So it would turn this exercise into something useful, they'd still get the benefits of added appeal to their course (though less than with flashy categorical statements - i doubt it would have gone outside of that particular uni) but it would have more educational value. It's ATTRACTIVE to want to diagnose a movie character with some mental illness. So teaching kids not to fall for that (which sadly they did, because they're morons) would make for a good class.

I agree with you, but I think it's worth pointing out that, since diagnosis is an entirely subjective process and is based off someone else's understanding of you, you can be diagnosed with BPD if you show weak signs of some of the listed traits. I'm not saying it's right though.

 

[EcK]

I agree with you, but I think it's worth pointing out that, since diagnosis is an entirely subjective process and is based off someone else's understanding of you, you can be diagnosed with BPD if you show weak signs of some of the listed traits. I'm not saying it's right though.

Indeed, Good point. But that's why soft sciences are not to be taken completely seriously. Some waaaay more than others. At the bottom of the pile of what can still be constituted as somewhat serious : 'classical' psychology(by which i mean psychology that doesn't feel it needs to be backed up by neurology t make its claims and see brain sciences as 'added benefits' rather than the basis you need to make predictable assumptions). I think of them alot of these fields as 'human studies' rather than 'science'
[MENTION=22178]hel[/MENTION]

 

[magpie]

Indeed, Good point. But that's why soft sciences are not to be taken completely seriously. Some waaaay more than others. At the bottom of the pile of what can still be constituted as somewhat serious : 'classical' psychology(by which i mean psychology that doesn't feel it needs to be backed up by neurology t make its claims and see brain sciences as 'added benefits' rather than the basis you need to make predictable assumptions). I think of them alot of these fields as 'human studies' rather than 'science'
[MENTION=22178]hel[/MENTION]

This is probably because if one adds science to the picture, the majority of psychological diagnoses would be scientifically fraudulent.

 

[EcK]

This is probably because if one adds science to the picture, the majority of psychological diagnoses would be scientifically fraudulent.

yes exactly. Nothing exists in a vacuum. So far the scientific method is, i'm pretty sure it's safe to say, our best way to know things about our environment and ourselves (well we're all part of the environment but I digress)
Alot of 'soft sciences' have leading theories wich live on their own with no regard for having strong claims of predictability or need to explain any underlying mechanism.
Though it's not all black and white, you could say that people diagnoses as psychopaths are more likely to a and b and c.
My point is there is no 'if a then b' (if psychopath= he will kill) and the claims are a bit hazzy (it's not as simple as 'if psychopath has no empathy what so ever'. These systems are too complex to be understood right now. Real psychological science will begin when we can simulate a brain and we're still at least a decade away from that.

 

[Olm the Water King]

I agree with you, but I think it's worth pointing out that, since diagnosis is an entirely subjective process and is based off someone else's understanding of you, you can be diagnosed with BPD if you show weak signs of some of the listed traits. I'm not saying it's right though.

That would mean that the therapist isn't good at their job.

Also, it's not just a matter of 'weak' vs 'strong', there's a qualitative dimension to the symptoms (or lack thereof) as well.

 

[Olm the Water King]

Oh and as the article says, if you're looking for an actual example of someone with BPD, one of them is Princess Diana:

AAPEL - Borderline celebrity Princess Diana.

Biography of Princess Diana (lady di) Reveals Her Borderline Personality Disorder, a Misunderstood Mental Illness.

Issue: Sept 2, 1999

NEW YORK, Sept. 2 /PRNewswire/ -- Sally Bedell Smith's biography, Diana in Search of Herself, brings Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) into sharp focus as the mental illness that shaped her life.

According to Valerie Porr, President, Treatment & Research Advancements Association for Personality Disorder (TARA APD), "the public is unaware of the extent and seriousness of this mental illness afflicting two to three percent of the general population."

TARA APD, a non-profit organization, increases public awareness of this chronic, often fatal, disease with a suicide rate three times higher than schizophrenia and bipolar disorder combined.

...

We Bruise Easily: Princess Diana had Borderline Personality Disorder

Princess Diana had Borderline Personality Disorder

I’ve been meaning to write this blog for a while, as there are so many sceptics regarding Diana’s BPD. Whenever someone raises doubt that Diana was in fact Borderline, I automatically assume that they know very little about Borderline Personality Disorder.
Born in the year of the Royal Wedding, I grew up loving Princess Diana. There isn’t a biography of hers that I haven’t read. Of course I pay particular attention to Her True Story, by Andrew Morton because we now know that she contributed directly to its contents, even down to its editing which she did by hand. It’s the closest we have to her autobiography.

Not being rude or meaning to sound arrogant, but is seems clear to me that anyone who know basic facts about Diana’s life, and basic diagnostic criteria for BPD would come to the same conclusion I have - slam dunk diagnosis. Diana was Borderline.

But before we even look at the evidence, first we must wipe the slate clean of the idea that attributing this personality disorder to Princess Diana is in any way derogatory. Stigma 101 associates shame with all types of mental illness and BPD is one of the most maligned conditions in the field of mental health so it’s important to spell this out.

...

 

[magpie]

That would mean that the therapist isn't good at their job.

Also, it's not just a matter of 'weak' vs 'strong', there's a qualitative dimension to the symptoms (or lack thereof) as well.

I think, in that case, there is no way for a therapist to do a good job. You don't diagnose any other illness by equating the illness itself with the symptoms and then talking with that person to see if you can find the list of symptoms. This is a surefire way for the doctor to be blinded by his own confirmation bias. It is also inherently unscientific. Instead, the doctor performs a test. As in, a medical test. There is no medical test to prove someone has BPD. Surveys aren't medical tests. That's like asking someone with potentially broken ribs to fill out a survey instead of giving them an x-ray.

 

[chubber]

Occam's Razor: Darth Vador is simply an INFP

/thread

Good thread though, it's a bit unprofessional to 'seriously' diagnose DV with BPD. It would be fine if they used it as a case study. "list BPD traits in these movie characters" etc.

Are you saying he has Histrionic tendencies?

I would have thought it was more Idiosyncratic if anything else. If he had BPD, perhaps the writers forgot to write about the rampant sex parties he would have had on the side.

Yes I exaggerated the sex parties, but to get the point across

 

[EcK]

Are you saying he has Histrionic tendencies?

I would have thought it was more Idiosyncratic if anything else. If he had BPD, perhaps the writers forgot to write about the rampant sex parties he would have had on the side.

[SPOILER ]Yes I exaggerated the sex parties, but to get the point across[ /SPOILER]

CHUBBER. WTF MAN

it's NOT OK to exagerate sex parties