Deception of unhealthier states?

[cascadeco]

So earlier this week I found myself, for a few days, in less healthy emotional levels. It came on through anxiety/stress, and not wanting to do something, but needing to because it was my job, and things along those lines. But then it spiraled into old worn patterns of thinking I didn't fit in at work, that I was being subtly cast out, which combined with my judging my coworkers, becoming unreasonably paranoid, but also recognizing it as such, and so on. I also knew, through experience, that I could stand aside from this and objectively 'know' that I wasn't necessarily able to assess anything reliably when I was feeling the way I was feeling. So, I just waited it out.

But while in that state, it was interesting to observe that there was a strong allure to believe these things - to believe I actually didn't fit in, to believe the others weren't including me / I was just on the sidelines, and so on. And, were I to believe these things, they would actually come true. I think this is maybe the allure -- the deception -- of what our minds tell us when we are in a less optimal state. What we believe *can* come true / we can actually make that happen - even if it's not a conscious process (and I think it probably usually wouldn't be). (This happened to me as a teenager -- I was in this state for a long while, so it became a more self-fulfulling thing - which is why, now in my older age (lol), I am better able to NOT get sucked down into it)

Thoughts? Your own experiences? I imagine there are more universal emotional aspects that most people can relate to, when it comes to unhealthier states, but too, enneagram/instincts/mbti could also play into variations.

(fwiw I know what I described above is very e4 -- I was in a quandary of whether to put it in the enneagram forum or this one, but I didn't want to only hear from e4's)

 

[Duffy]

You ever read the concept of law of attraction? It sounds similar to what you've written. Your thoughts influencing your fate type of thing. I think they actually tackle this in behavioral therapy as well -- changing negative thought patterns in hopes of changing circumstance. And there was a popular video of a speaker at a Ted talk that spoke of faking it to making it -- same central ideas.

 

[miss fortune]

I can sympathize a bit there... Saturday at work everything that could go wrong did and it did so to a cartoonishly ridiculous level and I was the one in charge (on top of that, we'd just implemented a new component to things that is very complicated and I'd never actually seen it done before and had to follow some very badly written instructions)... as the day went on further and further I got more and more angry at EVERYTHING to the point where approximately half of the words I ended up verbalizing in the last hour were probably variations of the word "fuck" and I got fairly obsessive about figuring things out and kicking it's ass and reminding it who the sentient being was around there... not to mention some sort of irrational paranoia that a coworker was definitely trying to take over and steal my power (which by that point I didn't even really want... so irrational is very much the correct word to describe ALL of that! )

I did, at least, put a huge amount of effort into not taking it out on anyone else and was complemented on that!

however, I pretty much disintegrated from normal/healthy to crazy, power hungry, paranoid and vicious in the course of a few hours... and that's really quite against anything that I believe is a good thing to do

so I might know what you're talking about, or I might be missing it by miles there

 

[á´…eparted]

While I can't relate to your experience, I have had parallel experiences. I have Bipolar II so I have run the gambit of moods, and my lows are frightfully low. Luckily I haven't had a full blown low for quite some time now. Though I think I have been in one for about a month now but life circumstance has kept me floating. Anyway I digress.

In some of my pits, I very often feeling like I am incompetent, a fraud, a failure, a charlatan, and completely unable to do what is required of me. I've had moments where I desparately tried to force past it, and because I was essentially unable to do so, I "broke" and ended up doing not so good things. I also did notice that I was in a strange way hoping all of these things were true about myself. Why? Because it would then justify me feeling this way, and some how be comforted by the fact that I was right with these assessments. It would explain and give reason to why I couldn't do something. Things can become a self-fulfilling prophecy if they are kept up for long enough, and I was nearing those points in some cases, which is quite bad. It's important to keep these things in check, and at least be aware of when our minds drift to "dark desires" like this.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I think there is human nature to control an outcome, even if that means controlling it negatively. I was once in a LTR with someone who warned me that he was cursed at the five year mark - that every partner leaves him after five years. At the five year mark he became very, very difficult to live with and I had to leave, even though we talked about how strange the 'coincidence' was.

I've had feelings like you describe at certain jobs, although not every job. I suppose I did believe it to be the case, so I quit. It is possible for some degree of ostracizing to be taking place, but if you are positive enough, and ignore it enough, you can also change the outcome? So it can be imagined and we reset our minds to fit with reality, or it can be real, but we focus on positivity and impose our will onto reality to change it for the better? It might be possible that most scenarios involve a combination of some negativity actually happening, but also using our minds to counteract it?

I do think most work environments are difficult and that people are often unhappy in their own lives. Many people feel criticized, depressed, have damaged egos, etc, so being positive can go a long way to help. In a work environment, I would tend to do my best to compliment people and be as positive as possible, but if the bad vibe continued, then to eventually quit. It is a delicate balance to both really listen to our inner voice, but to also not get trapped into negative, imagination thinking. What a difficult task to determine what is happening sometimes. I only know to try everything first, and if it is still there then make a change? Leave no stone unturned, but once they are all unturned, then evaluate the situation without blame on self or others, but on whether or not it feels like progress and peace can happen?

 

[cascadeco]

[MENTION=25411]Hijynx[/MENTION] - I am familiar with what you mention, though, I myself have never read up on it or been part of it. Though, it has occurred to me more than once that my process of 'growth' has in essence been CBT -- just a homespun version of it.
[MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION]- your experiences are exactly what I was interested in hearing -- I know all of us have crossover in the fact that we all experience deep lows/ stress triggers, we all for a time can enter dark places or basically be opposite who we really want to be, but we each have particular demons we face. And, what stories do we end up telling ourselves when that happens? Or, what do we do when that happens?

I also did notice that I was in a strange way hoping all of these things were true about myself. Why? Because it would then justify me feeling this way, and some how be comforted by the fact that I was right with these assessments. It would explain and give reason to why I couldn't do something. Things can become a self-fulfilling prophecy if they are kept up for long enough, and I was nearing those points in some cases, which is quite bad. It's important to keep these things in check, and at least be aware of when our minds drift to "dark desires" like this.

I think it's interesting you too had that tiny compulsion to want to believe it, and I agree from a psychological sense, it is probably due to the ease of it explaining it - like, an excuse, the justification element totally.

I think there is human nature to control an outcome, even if that means controlling it negatively. I was once in a LTR with someone who warned me that he was cursed at the five year mark - that every partner leaves him after five years. At the five year mark he became very, very difficult to live with and I had to leave, even though we talked about how strange the 'coincidence' was.

That is interesting. It does seem for him it became a self-fulfilling thing, I agree the 'coincidence' factor is suspect.

I've had feelings like you describe at certain jobs, although not every job. I suppose I did believe it to be the case, so I quit. It is possible for some degree of ostracizing to be taking place, but if you are positive enough, and ignore it enough, you can also change the outcome? So it can be imagined and we reset our minds to fit with reality, or it can be real, but we focus on positivity and impose our will onto reality to change it for the better? It might be possible that most scenarios involve a combination of some negativity actually happening, but also using our minds to counteract it?

Hmm, interesting thoughts.

For me, my desire isn't to pull the curtains over some aspect of reality and ignore it, ie if the reality is I were in a situation where everyone DID despise me, I wouldn't want to create some story in my head that my mind could overcome that with positivity. I guess though when I recognize I am in a less healthy emotional state, I also recognize my abilities to discern 'reality' are compromised. I also know that I can completely imagine things, like the paranoia aspect.

And I know that if I allowed myself to be overcome, to believe in those extreme things my mind is creating for that short instant in time, that if I allowed them to settle in, that it would become so, essentially - because then I'd have this preconceived notion in my head, already, that person X is doing such and such, and so I'll read everything from that skewed perception. Which will mean I treat X more as such, which X will then respond to, and so on. Distance begins to be established, self fulfilling. That sort of thing.

I do think most work environments are difficult and that people are often unhappy in their own lives. Many people feel criticized, depressed, have damaged egos, etc, so being positive can go a long way to help. In a work environment, I would tend to do my best to compliment people and be as positive as possible, but if the bad vibe continued, then to eventually quit. It is a delicate balance to both really listen to our inner voice, but to also not get trapped into negative, imagination thinking. What a difficult task to determine what is happening sometimes. I only know to try everything first, and if it is still there then make a change? Leave no stone unturned, but once they are all unturned, then evaluate the situation without blame on self or others, but on whether or not it feels like progress and peace can happen?

Interesting thoughts.

I do think situations like these have essences of truth in them - hence something is triggered in us. But what our minds can then do with that little bit of information is what I find interesting. It is usually a delicate balance, I agree, to figure out what exactly is going on.

 

[1487610420]

Cognition/Confirmation Bias. It can be a challenge, not just to discern but often IME the opposite is true,as Ne picks up on the smallest of change and ties together lots of data points, from where it arrives at the impression that something is off, without being exactly sure what/why.