Gender Fluidity

[Frosty]

Just how much do you identify with your own gender? Do you think gender is innate? Do you think that it is important to have set gender roles, even loose ones? Has the divide between how certain genders are viewed, including predjudicial aspects really changed or improved?

How do you view gender in any regard?

 

[thoughtlost]

I do identify with my gender. idk why. I am comfortable with my body, but I am not sure if that means that I have to be a particular way (psychology) because of my body. I don't think I do have to be a certain way if I have X set of organs/dna/physical traits.

Gender is not innate, but physical things are ...like having a higher pitched voice and certain organs. And the shape of the different sexes are different, physically. Of course that lies on a spectrum and it depends on if your genes/biochemistry is working as "expected". And when things do not work as expected ...that's not a bad thing because things like that are normal.

Gender roles are here because humans use short cuts in general to organize the world. Not always a bad thing ...until it gets bad/limits people/prevents them from just being human.

Things are definitely changing ...but things will stay the same, at the same time. There will be those who are okay with gender roles/don't feel the need to question it. And there will be those that really want a voice to express themselves the way they need to.

How do I view gender? I think there are different styles of being ...in general. If you're a scientist then you might think different than a social scientist. Both have its benefits and both have its disadvantages. And you can be both at the same time. You don't have to limit yourself. So maybe that's what the difference between gender means? different styles of being independent of sex? Kind of like personality theory. You can be more "womanly" without having vagina. or you can have a vagina (or have whatever your DNA/nature gives you) and be a little bit manliness and womenness. Or whatever. At the same time.... I don't like relying on gender (meaning the binary) to say that this is how you'll be. Even in one category ...there are many differences, so I am fine with things being looser, so no, roles aren't necessary for me. Sex ...that's understandable for medical reasons, but that is it.

...I don't like that female clothes are made so cheaply and that we have to spend so much time looking nice, but that's just me. I am lazy.

 

[five sounds]

I'm happiest when I think of it as fluid. I like to be able to move around.

 

[BadOctopus]

I'm far too lazy to reiterate what I said in a similar thread, so I'm just going to copy-paste it.

I'm a straight woman, and I guess a moderately feminine one. When I was a kid, though, I was very much a tomboy. I hated dresses, and dolls, and anything girly. Even when I was a teen, I carried all my things in my pockets, because I loathed purses. My mom was convinced that I'd turn out to be a lesbian. But although I appreciate beauty in women, I have never felt sexually attracted to one. I like men. They're good.

Now that I am a grown adult, I enjoy certain things about being a woman. I like makeup, and shoes, and dresses (although I still hate frills and lace, and there's not a trace of pink in my wardrobe.) But that's kind of where my femininity ends. Otherwise, I am pretty indifferent about my gender. I don't enjoy stereotypically "womanly" activities. I would rather play video games than go shopping. And I prefer sci-fi or action films over romance. Most chick flicks make me want to hurl. And I read nautical fiction, for God's sake.

In many ways, I feel like I sort of fail as a woman. I'm not particularly affectionate, or good at comforting people. I'm not very good with kids; I don't think I have a single nurturing bone in my body. I've been told that I "think like a guy", by my ex-boyfriend, no less. In any case, I generally lead with my head, not my heart. Which, according to society, is a more masculine trait than a feminine one. (Although I know plenty of men who defy that stereotype.)

Anyway, I guess I think of myself as a person first. The whole "woman" thing is kind of an afterthought.

 

[prplchknz]

um i guess so i have the parts of a female and i don't see just because i don't fit perfectly into the sterotype i can't be a girl, because i don't fit with male sterotypes either. my body is just my vessel for my soul and as long as i'm not physically deformed to the point of people throwing up than what gender i am doesn't matter.

 

[Forever]

I'm far too lazy to reiterate what I said in a similar thread, so I'm just going to copy-paste it.

Self-plagiarism.

 

[BadOctopus]

Self-plagiarism.

I don't hear me complaining about it.

 

[Forever]

I don't hear me complaining about it.

Haha Idc about it, my English teacher for psychology writing makes that a rule for us, which is silly but I understand why too.

...and I know I wanted to use those emoticons for something.

 

[Totenkindly]

Self-plagiarism.

She referenced it.

I call it "efficiency."
Besides, if she rewrites it, she's admitting her first post was imperfect.

 

[Forever]

She referenced it.

I call it "efficiency."
Besides, if she rewrites it, she's admitting her first post was imperfect.

Truth has came out of your lips this day.

(Lol, I understand you said true things before too, I'm just feeling poetic today.)

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Just how much do you identify with your own gender?

Very little. I am physiologically male by scientific standards, and I have no problem with that, but when it comes to gender, I have always been estranged.

Do you think gender is innate?

Nope. Socially constructed.

Do you think that it is important to have set gender roles, even loose ones?

No. I think they emerged, with little thought, from long-since irrelevant circumstances. We not only don't need them, we'd be better off without them.

Has the divide between how certain genders are viewed, including predjudicial aspects really changed or improved?

In what time frame? In what area? There have always been changes from time to time and place to place in how gender is understood. So let's say, for my purposes, that we narrow it down to the USA in the past 100 years. In that case, there has definitely been an improvement. However, the problem is not eliminated, and the extent that it has been addressed remains unsatisfactory. There are some other places that have done better than the USA, and unfortunately there are far more places that have done worse that the USA and have further to go.

How do you view gender in any regard?

That's such a vague question. The key details are already in my answers above, I think.

 

[ceecee]

Just how much do you identify with your own gender? Do you think gender is innate? Do you think that it is important to have set gender roles, even loose ones? Has the divide between how certain genders are viewed, including predjudicial aspects really changed or improved?

How do you view gender in any regard?

I'm feel that gender is somewhat fluid in everyone. Even in small degrees - at least when it comes to society and roles. Have things improved in regards to gender? Yes but it really depends on where you're standing as to how much it's improved. Some places will race ahead, some places will remain stagnant, just as people do. I'm a woman and there are womanly things I enjoy and I physically function as a woman but I've never been entirely "female". I never will be and I'm comfortable with that.

 

[Totenkindly]

It's funny because I spent much of my life thinking about it but don't feel much closer to "understanding it" and at this point also it's more a detail like eye color or skin hue. It has an impact on life because of social expectations and potential inequities in the system, but in general I just tend to think of people more as people.

i.e., "he's good at that because he's good at that" versus "he's good at that because he's a guy," or "she likes that because she likes it" and not because "she likes it because she's a girl."

As far as how I fall into the social system: I'm a blend and typically always have been. My interests fall into those from the 'geek' side of things whether male or female. I'm good at both spatial and verbal things. I'm not really into sports, unless I'm sharing the experience with friends. I think the idea of learning to shoot a gun or driving a car fast is fun; but I'm not typically geeking out over hardcore details of either (in terms of make and model and history, etc.) I'm more interested in blades, if I had to pick; but I also like decorating and making my home comfortable and artsy/bohemian. I dunno. My interests are just very eclectic and veer back and forth over the line. I like horror, action, scifi/fantasy, drama, and animation as far as movies go... I think most romance flicks directed at women are crap, but it doesn't mean I don't occasionally run across one that hits me positively. I'll read science magazines / consumer reports AND Glamour... ha.

I like both dressing down AND dressing up; I like makeup but refuse to spend more than 10-15 minutes on it.

I could relate to BadOctopus' description of herself as an adult.

Interestingly, I see both male and female-assigned patterns of behavior in myself, in the relationships I've been in... but some of that I think is personality rather than just gender. I feel I become more feminine (in terms of what you see socially) when I relate to a guy. Parenting-wise, I'm rather a blend as well.

 

[Coriolis]

Self-plagiarism.

Well, when someone starts a thread that is quite similar to other recent threads, this is simply efficient. In that spirit, I will quote myself as well:

When I was a kid, I sometimes wished I were a boy, but mainly because the boys around me generally did things that were more fun, and didn't seem to be held to the same standards of appearance and manner. By the time I was a teenager, though, I realized I didn't have to follow those standards, and I could do pretty much whatever I put my mind to. Since then, I haven't really cared.

So, I am a straight female, but mostly I think of myself simply as me. I identify as female primarily for medical and physiological matters; for deciding which restroom or locker room to use; and for filling out forms that ask for gender. In general, though, I identify much more strongly with my profession, talents, abilities, interests, spirituality, culture, and personality than with gender.

I wear almost exclusively women's clothing because it fits my figure best. I don't mind the occasional dress or skirt in the right style and colors, but find much of women's clothing hopelessly impractical, uncomfortable, gaudy, or flimsy. I tend therefore to wear fairly androgynous styles, but tailored for women. I wasn't really a tomboy, but still hated girly things as a kid. I think I liked dresses much better when I could buy the ones I liked rather than the silly things my mother had for me when I was very small.

I was lucky in a way as a kid, especially in my generation. I was an only child, so my mother did typical girl things with me like cooking, sewing, shopping, visiting; my father did typical boy things, like home repairs, woodworking, fishing, etc. (He wasn't into sports or cars himself.) I've followed suit into adulthood, doing what is interesting or needful regardless of which box it is usually assigned. I cook and build computers; sew clothes and cut wood; garden and do martial arts; have science as a vocation and music as an avocation.

And I'll quote Jennifer as well, or at least this part that encapsulates my general perspective:

I. . . at this point also it's more a detail like eye color or skin hue. It has an impact on life because of social expectations and potential inequities in the system, but in general I just tend to think of people more as people.

I also agree with [MENTION=1449]Magic Poriferan[/MENTION] that gender is a social construct derived from conditions no longer relevant (and even when relevant, extrapolated to affect much more of life than was warranted). We don't need gender roles, any more than we need racial roles or other expectations about broad categories of people based on what demographic they belong to. This is just another form of profiling, of putting people into boxes based on stereotypes and assumptions. Better to let people order their lives in the way that works out best for them, and judge them (if we must judge) based on who they are inside and how they act.

 

[Forever]

I love the fact that you all took my emoticons seriously. They will surely live on by vote of the people.

 

[Derpravity]

I've gone through various stages of fighting and not fighting my lack of femininity as a girl. There are a lot of feminine aesthetics I really like, but none of them really fit me. When I get dolled up and wear a dress it's kind of fun, but I don't feel like myself. However much I like the look in the mirror, it doesn't feel right.

I'm most comfortable in jeans and a T-shirt, preferably both from the men's section or unisex. But I think I'm a lot more androgynous in expression than masculine.

And I'm not interested in "feminine" roles, either. Around little kids I take on kind of a teacher or buddy persona, but not so much maternal. I don't want to care for others or be dependent, although emotionally those feelings are going to come out sometimes. In the sense of, for example, 50's stereotypes, I think my values and attitudes are more "masculine".

And I'm usually uncomfortable around people who are completely defined by either "femininity" or "masculinity" - all makeup and high heels, or all macho swagger - I like people who contain a nice yin-yang in themselves, in their presentation and attitudes.

 

[Hawthorne]

I was under the impression that there's a difference between gender identity and gender roles. Are the two being distinguished here or nah?

 

[Coriolis]

I was under the impression that there's a difference between gender identity and gender roles. Are the two being distinguished here or nah?

There is a distinction in theory, though for some people not in practice. It is possible, for instance, to identify with one gender but to willingly assume a different gender role for whatever reason. For many people, the two match up fairly closely, even if that is some combination of the standard male/female, or something else even.

I love the fact that you all took my emoticons seriously. They will surely live on by vote of the people.

Whatever gave you that idea? They are simply quoted for documentary purposes.

 

[Forever]

Whatever gave you that idea? They are simply quoted for documentary purposes.

 

[á´…eparted]

Just how much do you identify with your own gender?

A lot. I have always identified as a man. Do I completely externally fit it? No, but that doesn't mean I identify with it any less.


Do you think gender is innate?

Yes. A lot of people seem to think so, but I that to me just reeks of people being allergic to categories and labels. Society has an influence, but it's more that society fits the scale. Depending on where and when you are born, is going to determine the area on that particular scale you fall on.


Do you think that it is important to have set gender roles, even loose ones?

I think it's important to be able to differentiate between genders. In particular I do not think people should be condemned for wanting to fit to any particular gender role. I have a difficult time understanding gender fludity, and I don't particularly care for it. If people feel that way though, then have at it.

We should know what is typical male, and what is typical female. Whether or not people like it, there are connections between sex and gender. They are independent, but connected. Men and women look and act a particular way biologically for a reason. I think it's foolish to try and intentionally blur that. Gender roles will never go away.


Has the divide between how certain genders are viewed, including predjudicial aspects really changed or improved?

It's changed and improved. Meaning, people can more freely do what they want as it pertains to gender with little backlash. I think some people are trying to take it too far by trying to remove gender all together. I put it this way: I identify as male, I like looking like a male, I like being a male, don't you tell me that's bad and not do that. Just as I am not going to tell you what to do and be. There's so much irony within the gender fight, and it's one of the biggest reasons I get so ticked off by it.


How do you view gender in any regard?

I think it's a thing that naturally evolved because of biology. Sexes are different for a reason, and it effects our behavior. We have society and culture so it gets modified quite a bit by that. Simply put, let people be who they hell they want. We don't need to get rid of the concept of gender to do that.

As I said before, people seem to get so butthurt these days over labels merely existing, and it fucking pisses me off. Grow up.