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NF vs. NT Debate! (Fun and Educational)

entropie

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i have come to think about those T and F things

What if you think about mankind like aeons of time back. Their perception towards reality has to has developed somehow.

If you think about T being the ultimate function to understand nature and the physical world, due to it being inherently logical.

Then it could be that F is the function that understands the human, who are the only thing in nature that is inherently illogical.

That would it make a perception style of the world that has developed through aeons of years by perceiving how humans are best to behave with each other. In terms of self-preservation. And that counts for the T and the F.

The only differences would be:

T = understanding of thw world (for example the hunt, to feed the family)

F = understanding of human development (for example caring and nurturing the family)

In addition this would explain why woman are more prone to F and men to T. Because in the long run of mankind's history woman have been incapacitated to become hunters, cause they were in the business of conceiving. Gosh my english is bad, I hope you do understand me.
 

Little Linguist

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i have come to think about those T and F things

What if you think about mankind like aeons of time back. Their perception towards reality has to has developed somehow.

If you think about T being the ultimate function to understand nature and the physical world, due to it being inherently logical.

Then it could be that F is the function that understands the human, who are the only thing in nature that is inherently illogical.

That would it make a perception style of the world that has developed through aeons of years by perceiving how humans are best to behave with each other. In terms of self-preservation. And that counts for the T and the F.

The only differences would be:

T = understanding of thw world (for example the hunt, to feed the family)

F = understanding of human development (for example caring and nurturing the family)

In addition this would explain why woman are more prone to F and men to T. Because in the long run of mankind's history woman have been incapacitated to become hunters and care for the family, cause they were in the business of conceiving. Gosh my english is bad, I hope you do understand me.

Sure :) But that still does not address my question of an F being able to do both. By both, I mean I can think logically and in a humanistic manner. *shrugs* Maybe that's not logical, but I can.
 

entropie

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In modern world they surely are becoming to be.

In my opinion this is the next stept of evolution. The thinking style of thinking rational or irrational is adversary.

But to pinpoint out the best traits of both of them and to apply them, would be the next step of a combined field theory... ohh I am drifitng off xD
 

Little Linguist

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In modern world they surely are becoming to be.

In my opinion this is the next stept of evolution. The thinking style of thinking rational or irrational is adversary.

But to pinpoint out the best traits of both of them and to apply them, would be the next step of a combined field theory... ohh I am drifitng off xD

I never really saw them as diametrically opposed. I definitely think there are people capable of both. Okay, maybe not equally capable, sure. But for me, it depends on the environment. In an academic environment, I am a die-hard rational - scare the crap out of people sometimes and often drive people away from me (to get back to the point about people who are 'bad' with people, if that is your characterization). I'm ambitious, driven and basically couldn't give a crap about other people when I have a goal and try to accomplish it.

On the other hand, as a teacher, I can do both. I can be rational and humanistic.

In my human relationships, I am almost entirely feeling with enough rationalism to prevent myself from getting hurt very much.

So there. Analyze that.

Result: Multiple Personality Disorder (Oh crap, hope not).
 

entropie

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Yes I was talking about the functions singled out.

When you talk about people, you always have T and F working at both times, there is just the specialty they picked out that intrests them.

If I longtime am intrested in how the world works, through logical interpretation, I will have a hard time understanding humans, what I have. Because humans act on impulses and tend to be genuinely irrational. What I like, but what I can not predict or understand from a psychological point of view. (not yet tho, here to learn :))

And the other thing about a F type being a hard time logical person. The F's often confuse that. You are absolutely logical, for that is what we all are (except some religious fundamentalists). But like you said, you can scare people off with your logic. If I would try to do so, I wouldnt not succeed, because I am not that in touch with my F-function and does not understand, how I need to frighten someone in certain situations, because I do not understand what would make him feel that way.

Feeler's tend to confuse that. No F Type is in no point less rational than a T-type. They tend to be not that intrested into hard mathematics, because it is not their field of intrest. My head starts aching aswell, when I get to deep into social and interpersonal things, cause I firstly dont understand it deep enough and most of the time dont care (I admit).

But when it comes to implying happiness or fear in a person, you F's win all the time, cause you are just more in touch with the human being.
 

Delphyne

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I´m wondering because Feelers get equated with emotional people and Thinkers with people who always react with cold professionalism. Hasn´t anyone met an emotional reactive Thinker yet?
 

entropie

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*winks* xD

provoke me and I show you reactivism xD *was no invitation to do so* xD
 

Little Linguist

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Yes I was talking about the functions singled out.

When you talk about people, you always have T and F working at both times, there is just the specialty they picked out that intrests them.

If I longtime am intrested in how the world works, through logical interpretation, I will have a hard time understanding humans, what I have. Because humans act on impulses and tend to be genuinely irrational. What I like, but what I can not predict or understand from a psychological point of view. (not yet tho, here to learn :))

And the other thing about a F type being a hard time logical person. The F's often confuse that. You are absolutely logical, for that is what we all are (except some religious fundamentalists). But like you said, you can scare people off with your logic. If I would try to do so, I wouldnt not succeed, because I am not that in touch with my F-function and does not understand, how I need to frighten someone in certain situations, because I do not understand what would make him feel that way.

Feeler's tend to confuse that. No F Type is in no point less rational than a T-type. They tend to be not that intrested into hard mathematics, because it is not their field of intrest. My head starts aching aswell, when I get to deep into social and interpersonal things, cause I firstly dont understand it deep enough and most of the time dont care (I admit).

But when it comes to implying happiness or fear in a person, you F's win all the time, cause you are just more in touch with the human being.

Wow, is that accurate??? I have never really thought about that aspect before now. Hmmm...you could be onto something!!!

Okay, sometimes *I* don't flipping understand people either. Just look at my blog sometimes when I rant and rave about people who are just <beeeeep>. But I have to admit, my husband always asks my opinion when it is about people. He also asks me what I think about certain situations, too. Okay, on the one hand one could argue he's just trying to be 'nice' and 'include' me because we are married. But I think he also respects my interesting, different, and sometimes unique perspective regarding different things.

Really, I can be a genius regarding getting the exact reaction I want. And the scary thing is: I do not even TRY. It just - like - happens. And so I have to be VERY careful and center myself and be rational because that can be really good and also really crappy. :blush:

However, I also have innate curiosity about how things work. I'm literally interested in ALMOST every subject except housecleaning and math. Everything else - including hard sciences - is up for grabs. I may not be knowledgeable, but I love to soak up information like a sponge and ask lots of annoying as shit questions to understand stuff.
 

entropie

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I´m wondering because Feelers get equated with emotional people and Thinkers with people who always react with cold professionalism. Hasn´t anyone met an emotional reactive Thinker yet?

You could think about this another way too.

A T, who is not so in touch with his emotions, cause his F-Function is not so good.

Such a person is frustrating and you despair, cause he never gets you right, when you are F. That is a problem in communication then. But it is not his intention, to be cold and professional.
 

Little Linguist

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You could think about this another way too.

A T, who is not so in touch with his emotions, cause his F-Function is not so good.

Such a person is frustrating and you despair, cause he never gets you right, when you are F. That is a problem in communication then. But it is not his intention, to be cold and professional.

Okay, Entropie - serious question now because I am really trying to understand, not bust your britches - how can a person not be in touch with emotions? I mean they are there - you just - well - know - you feel!!! How can you not feel, or not know? I mean, is it just unclear? Do you sit there and think, "Shit, I wish I knew how I felt about this thing/person, but I do not know." Or do you think, "Shit I wish I didn't feel anything but I do" Or rather "I don't feel anything HA!" but you do even though you think you don't? Or something else?

That's not snarky. I'm really curious.
 

entropie

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Well emotions are within us all, they manifest in different ways.

I was in love with that girl for like 3 years, everytime I saw her, I felt it and I reacted on impulses in her vicinity. I became shy, dumb, clownlike. I did all what my emotions laied out for me.

But my F-Function never gave me the answers, in those times, why she does not see my emotions, why she does not see the same way like I do, what I have to do, to show her what I feel and not to completly make a fool out of me.

What maybe comes natural to you, still is a mystery to me.

Like when my girlfriend starts yelling at me, because I have not called her for 5 days. She then thinks I do not love her anymore, for me it is I "paused" my emotions and was intrested into a thinking matter. Every nite I go asleep I think of her and my emotions towards her are constantly active.

But I just forgot about the good manner to express that, what is a F-Type thing and what is needed to make other people understand how you feel about them, cause they dont see transparent into your heart (what I indirectly expected for a longtime from people).
 

Little Linguist

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Well emotions are within us all, they manifest in different ways.

I was in love with that girl for like 3 years, everytime I saw her, I felt it and I reacted on impulses in her vicinity. I became shy, dumb, clownlike. I did all what my emotions laied out for me.

But my F-Function never gave me the answers, in those times, why she does not see my emotions, why she does not see the same way like I do, what I have to do, to show her what I feel and not to completly make a fool out of me.

What maybe comes natural to you, still is a mystery to me.

Like when my girlfriend starts yelling at me, because I have not called her for 5 days. She then thinks I do not love her anymore, for me it is I "paused" my emotions and was intrested into a thinking matter. Every nite I go asleep I think of her and my emotions towards her are constantly active.

But I just forgot about the good manner to express that, what is a F-Type thing and what is needed to make other people understand how you feel about them, cause they dont see transparent into your heart (what I indirectly expected for a longtime from people).

Ahhhhhh...okay! Now I think I am starting to understand. This is very interesting.

I wish I could objectively analyze if feelers 'take a break' with thinking tasks for days sort of like thinkers 'take a break' with feeling tasks. But, alas, I am too much of a feeler to be objective, so I probably would not even recognize it. Or is that the problem you thinkers have with us?
 

Delphyne

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*winks* xD

provoke me and I show you reactivism xD *was no invitation to do so* xD

We´ll see. :devil:

But I´m half serious. ;) If you look at the enneagram you have the reactive group (4,6, and 8), the competency group (1,3, and 5) and the positive group (2, 7, and 9). The cold, objective style, which some associate with T, really fits best with the competency types. These types put there feelings away to get things done. (I´m not saying they don´t have feelings). But T Eights and Sixes will react quite emotional and they need an emotional reaction , too.
 

entropie

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Yes that is very good to about the enneagram.

What I think in the long run, what every thinker needs from a feeler, is help to gain hold on his F-ness. My F-ness is Fe so I am talking about good manners, with others thinkers it is Fi and more romantic.

I guess it is pretty hard to help someone developing that, who has an aura of definiteness but trust me. Deep down they need it all.
 

Little Linguist

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Yes that is very good to about the enneagram.

What I think in the long run, what every thinker needs from a feeler, is help to gain hold on his F-ness. My F-ness is Fe so I am talking about good manners, with others thinkers it is Fi and more romantic.

I guess it is pretty hard to help someone developing that, who has an aura of definiteness but trust me. Deep down they need it all.

yes, this is so true. My husband tells me all the time that I help him to develop things in himself that were hidden for so long. I think this is what he means.

Interestingly enough - I am a 3 regarding the enneagram. I guess I'm a heathen ENFP. Though, granted, my 2 is also high and my results are very balanced:

Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||| 51%
Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||||| 52%
Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||||| 54%
Type 4 Hypersensitivity |||||||||||| 44%
Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||| 44%
Type 6 Anxiety |||||||||||| 50%
Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||||| 50%
Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||||| 51%
Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||| 45%
 

Little Linguist

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You are a 10 on my scale xD

:D You are too kind.

<Oops, did you mean me or delphyne?>

See, I gotta say - I think I really have the ability to do multiple things because my functions are not so haywire like many people's, regardless of what test I take.

Extroverted (E) 53.57% Introverted (I) 46.43%
Intuitive (N) 57.58% Sensing (S) 42.42%
Feeling (F) 55.88% Thinking (T) 44.12%
Perceiving (P) 53.13% Judging (J) 46.88%

These are very balanced, too.

*shrugs* I guess I'm balanced enough to be rather sane, but just aggressive and adventurous enough to be interesting. ;)
 

entropie

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:D You are too kind.

<Oops, did you mean me or delphyne?>

See, I gotta say - I think I really have the ability to do multiple things because my functions are not so haywire like many people's, regardless of what test I take.

Extroverted (E) 53.57% Introverted (I) 46.43%
Intuitive (N) 57.58% Sensing (S) 42.42%
Feeling (F) 55.88% Thinking (T) 44.12%
Perceiving (P) 53.13% Judging (J) 46.88%

These are very balanced, too.

*shrugs* I guess I'm balanced enough to be rather sane, but just aggressive and adventurous enough to be interesting. ;)


Nono I mean exactly you xD

I am just watching scrubs right now and I can not stop laughing lol xDD

This is the best show on television, even it is old already xDD

YouTube - Scrubs - The Best Of Dr. Cox Volume One
 
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