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Women, "Play Nice" and the Danger Instinct

Jae Rae

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Yes, this is a very interesting discussion.

Thanks for sharing your stories.
 

Totenkindly

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...My point here is that everybody in this thread have only been on one side and I am probably the only one on this forum which was on the other. And what is sure is that I am the only who is willing to share the experiance and insight of the other side..

What happened to me that night wasn't done by my choice or it was planned. It just happened that she run into me in the place where she did not expect somebody.

Oh. So essentially she reacted to you as if you were a threat and/or stalker type, because of the context of the situation, even if your intentions were positive?
 

INA

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OT, I felt the same way about John Edwards watching him in the Democratic debates. There's just something about that man that feels "wrong" to me. I'm not comparing him to incidents 1-3, but definitely something about him brings about those atavistic instincts within myself in which tells you not to trust that individual.

You're not alone on this; he repulsed me straight away. To be fair, he does seem sleazy in a way I'd think even the intuition-deficient could pick up.

Oh. So essentially she reacted to you as if you were a threat and/or stalker type, because of the context of the situation, even if your intentions were positive?
And this without reading his posts on MBTIc. Hmm . . . She's good. :D
 
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You're not alone on this; he repulsed me straight away. To be fair, he does seem sleazy in a way I'd think even the intuition-deficient could pick up.

Can you always trust your intuition? I mean... I felt similarly... he looked too polished... too smooth... reminded me of Kennedy... but then I felt like I wasn't giving him the benefit of the doubt...

Though I realize you're not one for giving people the benefit of the doubt... at least not easily... ;)
 

INA

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Can you always trust your intuition? I mean... I felt similarly... he looked too polished... too smooth... reminded me of Kennedy... but then I felt like I wasn't giving him the benefit of the doubt...

Though I realize you're not one for giving people the benefit of the doubt... at least not easily... ;)

No, you cannot trust it entirely. That's the rub. I have given people the benefit of the doubt based on intuition before and been wrong. Is that a failure of intuition? Perhaps.
 

Virtual ghost

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Oh. So essentially she reacted to you as if you were a threat and/or stalker type, because of the context of the situation, even if your intentions were positive?


If you take the context, I think that there is no sane women out there who would not done the same. My intentions were not good or bad it just happened.


The context was : night with some moonlight, graveyard ,Christmas, guy in black behind your back.

Now somebody could ask me what the hell I was doing in the graveyard at night?

I live near one graveyard and I am astronomy geek. So I always have problem with lights but at the graveyard there is no light so this is the atmosphere I need. But I would be telling lies if I would say that the combination of night, moon, silence and graves is not attractive to me.

But in the situation we are talking about I was visiting grandfathers grave.

Since it was really nice night I took a short walk around the graveyard.
But the graveyard is like one big labyrinth so it turned out that I appeared out of nowhere and behind her back.

I have posted my original post in this thread because I know that I can run 5 times faster than her. In the case that I was a maniac I could have done what ever I wanted because there was no one there, just us and graves.

When you are runing away from better runner it is important that you are not too slow. So if you have advantage of 15 meters there is a possibility that you can escape if you are running behind the corners all the time.
That is because that can make him stop for a moment to think where you have gone or to hear from which direction the sound of running is coming from.
Your advantage is that you direct direction and with some luck and running speed you have the chance to lose him.
So my point is that you don't have to be super runner to escape. But from what I have seen the woman was way too slow. (she was not fat).

Later she and I have meet each other once again at the graveyards door where she was catching her breath and have a little chat about what happened.
She said to me something like " The moment when I have realized that you are not running after me was one of the most wonderful moments in my life."
 

Jae Rae

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Another great story. This thread is A+.
 

Kasper

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^ agree.

It's something I've never really thought about. Sure in a situation where I'm walking down a dark street on my own I'm alert and reactive but in some of the situations described I may have let my social graces override my intuition. Got to go read that book. Thanks.
 

Domino

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I think as far as instincts go, it's important for women to remember that you do NOT owe it to the antagonist to "understand" his feelings or yours in a moment of perceived threat. Your job is to get away from that threat, and THEN when you're safely away, you can analyze the situation at leisure and fully understand what set your Fight-Flight instinct in motion.

You are NOT to psychoanalyze yourself, coach yourself, apply false reason, read motive into the aggressor's actions. You are to GET AWAY.

Analysis is for later.

I recall being confronted with some plastered punk-low lifes at a party for a friend. One of them was up in my business and touched my face, I smacked his hand, it got VERY dodgey for a split second before I made a joke that broke the tension and he laughed. An ISTJ friend of mine standing near me told me later that she had no idea how I managed to smack a drunk idiot and STILL get him to laugh/like me, but she was certain she was going to have start swinging unless a miracle of diplomacy occurred. Fortunately (and surprisingly) it did. I got myself (sis and friend included) out of there immediately.
 

Anja

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One incident when my intuition backfired, though was accurate, was a time I was alone sunbathing at an old haunt.

Eyes closed, I sensed that someone was in my presence and I looked up to see a man very nearby holding a pair of binoculars which he had trained on me. I closed my eyes again briefly and when I reopened them he was still gawking.

Ok. My thought process: This is a voyeur. Voyeurs are very timid and easily shamed.

I sat up and told him to stop training his binoculars on me. Since he didn't immediately respond I said a few things about voyeurism being the habit of young boys and that maybe he needed to look at himself. That I didn't intend for him to use my body for his afternoon's entertainment.

To my surprise he spewed an intense tirade with considerable name-calling and agression involved.

Since we were essentially alone in that area of the pond. I arose, picked up my things and walked to my car where I began jotting his license number down to call and give the police a heads-up on this man. Something didn't add up.

Several other details of his appearance, the time of day, the way he was dressed and the type of vehicle began to help me realize that this man was not a voyeur. This man was a hunter - a predator in the physical sense of the word.

He followed me from the beach and asked me what I was doing and I calmly and firmly answered with my intention and received another tirade.

Needless to say I wasted no time in cutting off my verbal connection with this frightening human and get out of his space.

When I called the police the officer laughed and said the man had already called them to report my verbal "attack" on him and added that they had received several other phone calls that day from other women.

He was driving a delivery van with no windows in the compartment.. Several times in reflection I've shuddered and wondered if I may have found myself privy to the secrets he was carrying with him had I showed fear or lingered to engage him in any way.

There are many ways to "run away" from a man and none are a guarantee.
 

Domino

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When I called the police the officer laughed and said the man had already called them to report my verbal "attack" on him and added that they had received several other phone calls that day from other women.

Just hearing that makes me want to kick the snot out of him. Belligerent galling freak. Proud of you for taking charge, girl. You knew better and you weren't out off by his desperate maneuvers. You played it smart and cool.

Good job, Anja.

Did the police ever file charges against this man? Was he a predator?
 

Domino

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I was nearly kidnapped once on my own street. Granted, I lived in a VERY bad neighborhood, but nothing like that had happened to me before.

I, my sis and two girlfriends were walking to my house. I was up front with my ISTJ friend, Mae, and Sis was behind several paces with Mary. Suddenly a car - a Safety Cab, ironically named.... - came roaring up beside us, with three men in it. The doors to the front and back flew open, and I heard them shouting leeringly to get in. I was walking to the outside and the doors almost hit me. One of the guys started to make a grab for me. I was so stunned that I froze, but Mae shouted "No!", seized me and flung me behind her into a ditch.

The evil perverts sped off when my next door neighbors - a bunch of construction workers - came flying up behind them in a Torino. "Did they hurt you?? Did they say anything?? GIRLS, RUN HOME NOW...." and then they tore off after them. They didn't catch them.

I remember lying in the ditch with Mae standing over me. "You saved me!" I said.

"Nobody snatches MY friend!" she snapped. (haha, love that ISTJ "bring it, fool" attitude)
 

Anja

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It's good to be able to find a chuckle in the grimmest of stories and my INFP-ness shines through. You made me laugh, Pink.

I did go home and search the directory of phone numbers to find that he lived and worked in a town twenty miles away.

Edit: I wrote the Department of Motorized Vehicles.

Since then I have sometimes wondered what finally happened but haven't been willing to give that person any more of my time and energy than I can spare.

I'm in mind of how tremendous the power of that incident has been, though.

The pond was a place I had frequented for over twenty years. Sometimes with others, sometimes alone. It was a special place of rest and recuperation for me.

For several years thereafter I found myself avoidant of wanting to spend time alone there anymore.

Now I have overcome that man's influence on enjoyment of my leisure time and frequent the pond at my choice. Nonetheless there isn't ever a time I go when I don't have a flashback of what possible danger I was/could be in. I know other women here can relate to that.

A secondary thought is the remembrance of the policeman's laughter. Yes. There was ironic and predictable humor in a man blaming the woman. I got that part and laughed along. In retrospect, I can admit some sense of confusion about how seriously he was taking my observations.
 
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Domino

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Boys will be boys?

The cop's humor is both understandable AND inappropriate. Sounds like he needed sensitivity training. Most cops are hard people, mostly due to the unpleasantness of their jobs, but come on.

That was not the best reaction and while it may have derived from "this wackjob is too much, eh?" consternation, I wouldn't be laughing if "many other women" had called to report this same man. Why on earth was he allowed to continue this behavior when he'd been reported multiple times in ONE DAY? That to me is unforgivable. The police should have dispatched to your location well before you ever had to call and add your justifiable complaint to the other ones.

I called the police once because I was home alone at midnight and was being harassed by a drunk transient on my front porch. My neighborhood was atrocious. Lived there almost 20 years. Got desensitized to the violence and rot largely, but not entirely. Someone showed up on my doorstep when I was home alone again (avoided this home alone-ness like the plague or kept the dogs in the house to defend me) pounding and pounding on my door. I wound up down in the hallway away from the open windows (dead of summer....) until the cops showed. I got a belligerent officer who fussed ME out for calling. I still have no idea why. He just laid into me as if *I* were the perpetrator.
 

Anja

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Anja, thank you for sharing your story. I agree - it takes some men awhile to understand how a woman feels when she's being sexually harrassed. Parenthood often does it.

There are even judges who don't understand why a woman would want a restraining order against a guy. "Can't you just talk to him?"

Where were you a librarian?

Busy, busy mind here this afternoon. There are so many angles to approach this from.

I trust you Thinkers will help me stay focussed. . .

Your comment about judges is appreciated, Jae.

Once in a meeting of various public health care disciplines I heard a "prestigious" psychiatrist from the U of M go into a rant about why did people think that incest was necessarily an unpleasant experience for a child. Yes! I did witness that.

My colleagues and I sat in stony silence, cowed by his obvious superior position to ours and job security in mind, no doubt.

He ended his blathering with the comment that even addressing the issue just breaks up families.

I suddenly was aware of more information about this man's private life than I cared to know.

With "helpers" like these from where is our social direction to come? (Frood rears his ugly head once again.)
 

Domino

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Anja

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I've got a list of them. .

All similar examples of the shambles which our Social Services have become. Same old, same old. Used to nearly drive me to tears.

One of many reasons why this discussion is germane.

Others? Societal/sexual attitudes shared by males Inadequate parenting by fathers. Uneducated parenting by mothers. Our oblivion about how the language we use can reinforce harmful behaviors. Fear of lawsuits. The media. Testosterone. (Yeah. I know I know.)
 

Mole

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Once in a meeting of various public health care disciplines I heard a "prestigious" psychiatrist from the U of M go into a rant about why did people think that incest was necessarily an unpleasant experience for a child. Yes! I did witness that.

They used to talk like that here too, until we started putting them in jail.

And even more tragically, they excused Aboriginal men of child sexual abuse on the grounds of cultural difference. This destroyed the sense of self and the lives of many Aboriginal children.

But just recently we have awoken from this dream of the Noble Savage - we have awoken from this Romantic, anti-Enlightenment dream and sent in the Army, the Police, the Prosecutors and medical workers backed by both sides of Parliament and billions of dollars.

The Enlightenment has had three great successes - the Abolition of Institutionalised Slavery by the House of Commons in 1833, the Emancipation of Women in the Twentieth Century and the enforcing of the laws against child sexual abuse today.

Always remembering the Enlightenment has its enemies - the Romantic Movement and the myth of the Noble Savage, the New Age Movement and MBTI, and Islam.

The Enlightenment has given us everything we value in the Modern World but at the cost of some stress which we try to relieve by turning back to the irrational.

This is why we find it hard to resist the Romantic Movement, the New Age Movement, and why Islam is on the rise.

Each and everyone of them is irrational and anti-Enlightenment.
 

SillyGoose

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I'm so sorry to hear of these things that happen and am very encouraged by all of your strength.

A tip for getting in/out of your car when it is dark out:
-as you're walking up to your car, make sure to scan underneath the car. Also make sure to peek in the backseat before getting in. Those two places are the amongst the most common but least announced places for a predator to hide.

On a news program about a year ago there was a segment that showed the reactions of little girls vs. little boys drinking heavily salted lemonade. Not one little girl made a complaint about the lemonade, but kept on drinking when it was obvious on their little faces that it was horrid. Some little girls even accepted another glass when it was offered to them.

The boys for the most part, flat out said the lemonade was not good or even proclaimed loudly how gross it was.

I can't remember what channel or program it was on, but I was hoping to find it on youtube.
 
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