• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Do you have to forget to truly forgive?

Frosty

Poking the poodle
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
12,667
Instinctual Variant
sp
If you forgive someone do you have to put aside their actions completely? If you do keep holding on to something someone did and judge their future actions against it have you truly forgiven them?
 

Showbread

climb on
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
2,298
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
3w2
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
No. I think with time it is possible to be at peace with things that have happened. It might not be easy or fast, but I do think it's possible. Once the pain of their actions subsides it can also be easier to see things from the other person's perspective, which makes forgiveness a lot easier.
 

LonestarCowgirl

New member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
482
If you forgive someone do you have to put aside their actions completely?
If one ever wants to truly love someone, then I think it's necessary to forgive and forget. If that's not possible because an offense is unforgettable (i.e., infidelity), or chronic (i.e., theft), I think one should do what's best for the both of them and create a safe distance or sever ties.
 

KitchenFly

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
864
From a F function perspective I figure to forgive is to give of the self as prior transgression perceived. Or maybe it is also a function of temperament and cognitive functions or perhaps it is a combination of all three and one more that is led by the Egoic Mind the selfs own personal Ethos.

Some times things work in fours and part of working in fours could require input from four perspectives from a universal view provided by the subtype level of minds operations.

Note that there are four uses of each of the nine numbers in the overall sequence that is a working template for or persons within there own inner enneagram:

9w1 , 1w9 , 1w2 , 2w1 , 2w3 , 3w2 , 3w4 , 4w3 , 4w5 ,
5w4 , 5w6 , 6w5 , 6w7 , 7w6 , 7w8 , 8w7 , 8w9 , 9w8 .

Within this sequence we can see each number is utilised four times.

Then thinking what is the Egoic Mind it maybe helpful to think of these Nine Functioning Components as be implicate to a definition for defining the basic boundaries of the question what defines an Egoic mind or the Egoic minds distinct caricaturists.


Attitude Behaviour Ethos
Mood Conches Agenda
Sense Think Feel

These nine components working in unison I believe constitute what is refers to as the Egoic Mind.

The complexity naturally will require a working structure larger that nine simple words but it is a start and it is how I see or define what is an Egoic minds primary base framework starting points as a structure.

I think all nine components work equally from for each of the eighteen subtypes but the story of type will most likely manifest various repeatable patters of both similarity difference and diversity and over all synergies.

Please forgive me if I have made some small errors in logic while providing explanation, I am an INFP and I tent to error in logic when explaining things in finite detail. I think I have explained things accurately enough to be correct within my explanation of a basic Egoic Minds Constructs as actions of will expressed and experienced.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
If you forgive someone do you have to put aside their actions completely? If you do keep holding on to something someone did and judge their future actions against it have you truly forgiven them?
Inasmuch as forgiveness is a conscious and deliberate action, I don't think you can forgive without remembering. If you truly forget - it is gone from your memory - so is that act of forgiveness. It's as if the incident never happened, which would imply you learned nothing from the experience.
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
No. I forgive people when the change from how they were previously that resulted in me shutting them out or labeling them as some form of bad.
 

LonestarCowgirl

New member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
482
Inasmuch as forgiveness is a conscious and deliberate action, I don't think you can forgive without remembering. If you truly forget - it is gone from your memory - so is that act of forgiveness. It's as if the incident never happened, which would imply you learned nothing from the experience.

Forgive and forget is an expression similar to the idiom bury the hatchet where forgive means to pardon and forget implies to have peace (to have no resentment), and to not bring up the fault again.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Forgive and forget is an expression similar to the idiom bury the hatchet where forgive means to pardon and forget implies to have peace (to have no resentment), and to not bring up the fault again.
That's not "forgive and forget"; that's "forgive and don't mention it".
 

Opal

New member
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
1,391
MBTI Type
ENTP
This is silly... you can move forward while bearing in mind the past, especially if you come to understand what motivated the action that bothered you.
 

Frosty

Poking the poodle
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
12,667
Instinctual Variant
sp
This is silly... you can move forward while bearing in mind the past, especially if you come to understand what motivated the action that bothered you.

But if you are keeping in mind the past, aren't you subconciously holding that against someone? You are more liable to judge them in the future against those actions, say if someone cheated on me, stole from me, lied to me, ect, I would try to try to forgive but if you do not forget that you were lied to, are you going to judge someone more harshly next time it happens? Obviously you could just end whatever relationship you had with someone, but what if these offenses were smaller. Someone wears your clothes without your permission and ruins it, later thy ask to borrow your car. Do you let them, or do you say no because they were irresponsible in the past? If you refuse, did you ever forgive them in the first place? Is forgiveness an absolute, or are there levels of black and white?
 

Opal

New member
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
1,391
MBTI Type
ENTP
But if you are keeping in mind the past, aren't you subconciously holding that against someone? You are more liable to judge them in the future against those actions, say if someone cheated on me, stole from me, lied to me, ect, I would try to try to forgive but if you do not forget that you were lied to, are you going to judge someone more harshly next time it happens? Obviously you could just end whatever relationship you had with someone, but what if these offenses were smaller. Someone wears your clothes without your permission and ruins it, later thy ask to borrow your car. Do you let them, or do you say no because they were irresponsible in the past? If you refuse, did you ever forgive them in the first place? Is forgiveness an absolute, or are there levels of black and white?

Should you not judge them more harshly for repeated transgressions? If you communicate the problem, help them understand why it is such, and come to understand their perspective, you can differentiate between past and present.
 

Oaky

Travelling mind
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
6,180
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I haven't forgotten that my older brother pulled my hair and making me cry for going to his train set he put together and tearing it apart when I was about 4 years old. Though indeed I forgive him for it. Though it might have been an eency bit my fault.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
There's a difference between holding a grudge and being prudent.

If someone does something terrible to me, I'm capable of evaluating the situation, working through my feelings, and allowing myself to interact with them after without trying to hurt them, undermine them, ruin them, etc. I can even give them future chances.

But it doesn't mean I immediately give them full access to my life or my heart just because I 'forgave' them-- not until I see signs that it is safe to do so and they have learned something enough to be trusted.

I'm not sure why people want to operate at the poles, of either never trusting someone again regardless or else feeling like they have to allow someone who has already abused them once to potentially abuse them again. If I leave the stove on once and burn myself, it doesn't mean I'll never use the stove again or I'll use the stove carelessly all the time; I'll just check the burner next time before I touch it, to make sure it's not on.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
If our minds were erased of the past, then we would hold no grudge, but we would also be incapable of forgiving. In order to actually forgive someone, you have to first comprehend what they have done to you. Denial and memory loss are ways to bypass forgiveness which is really difficult.

Understanding fully can be helpful in forgiveness because you typically discover that the pain someone caused you was never about you, but about their own internal suffering. When you understand that their ability to harm you came from their inability to see you in the first place. You see it was actually an expression of their own misery (which often results from internal constructs of entitlement). When you see why you would rather be you (hurt and all,) than them (entitlement-suffering and all), then it becomes easier to start to forgive.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I have never learned to forgive, don't really know what it is. I just move on, don't make it a habit or I just grow more and more distant each time.
 
Top