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Sociopathy

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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What is sociopathy? How would you define it? Would you describe it as calculation? Would you describe it as a lack of emotions? Would you consider it to be a lack of concern for others?
 

Riva

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Isn't it lack of empathy; which may be a biological issue or caused by external factors?
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Isn't it lack of empathy; which may be a biological issue or caused by external factors?

I think that's part of the definition, but I think people all too often make a mistake of assuming that a rationalistic temperament or mode of expression is the same thing as a lack of empathy. I don't empathize with everyone, but I clearly have empathy.

This article kind of nails this whole thing on the head for me:

Stop Calling Sherlock a Sociopath! Thanks, a Psychologist.
 

BadOctopus

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I have strong suspicions that a long-time acquaintance of mine might be a sociopath. I've known her most of my life, and although she's very charming and likeable, I get this feeling that there's something off about her. Her emotions seem superficial, even fake. When she smiles at you, there's nothing behind her eyes. It's very unsettling.

She's also impulsive and reckless, and is always causing drama and hurting people, but when she expresses remorse, it's clear that she doesn't mean it. It's like she can't understand the consequences of her actions, particularly how they affect the feelings of others.

I think that's one of the basic definitions of a sociopath: a lack of social awareness. They can emulate a semblance of it, but they don't really understand it.
 

BluRoses

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Sociopathy - extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience and empathy. (Was partly taken from google definitions)

I work in the mental health field and have some experience with teens who were diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder. Now days the mental health community doesn't want to call you a sociopath or a psychopath because of the stigma, so you have antisocial personality disorder instead, but anyways...

The individuals I have met/worked with that fit this description (only 2) really struck me with their lack of empathy. They both had "dead eyes," and that was disturbing, but it was so strange how they did not respond to punishment or most of the time, even from taking away positive things they liked. They responded very well to a system of rewards. In fact, it was my experience that both were very smart and (at ages 14 and 16) had figured out how to "pretend" to have empathy and to care for others, but they truly only cared about themselves and their rewards.

It was a disturbing experience both times. ::shivers::
 

TheCheeseBurgerKing

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It's like she can't understand the consequences of her actions, particularly how they affect the feelings of others.

I think that's one of the basic definitions of a sociopath: a lack of social awareness. They can emulate a semblance of it, but they don't really understand it.

This is a big part of why people get away with sociopathic behavior. People actually believe crap like what you just said.

I was sociopathic for a while, and let me tell you, the intent to harm is there. Sociopaths know exactly what their doing, they just don't give a shit.

If you have an atheist belief system and survival of the fittest mentality, why the hell would you give a damn if something "hurts anothers feelings"? From that point of view, its down right stupid to care. It's only beneficial to care about someone if it somehow helps you, every thing is a business situation.

The fact that people justify shit like being a sociopath and being bipolar really pisses me off because it's so f&*&ing moronic.

It's adaptive behavior that people learn that they can get away with.

Be real with yourself. The whole "Poor dear, you can't feel empathy!" crap is the literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Wake up.
 

BadOctopus

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This is a big part of why people get away with sociopathic behavior. People actually believe crap like what you just said.

I was sociopathic for a while, and let me tell you, the intent to harm is there. Sociopaths know exactly what their doing, they just don't give a shit.

If you have an atheist belief system and survival of the fittest mentality, why the hell would you give a damn if something "hurts anothers feelings"? From that point of view, its down right stupid to care. It's only beneficial to care about someone if it somehow helps you, every thing is a business situation.

The fact that people justify shit like being a sociopath and being bipolar really pisses me off because it's so f&*&ing moronic.

It's adaptive behavior that people learn that they can get away with.

Be real with yourself. The whole "Poor dear, you can't feel empathy!" crap is the literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Wake up.
Wow. If that is literally the dumbest thing you've ever heard, then you haven't lived very long.

I never said I felt sorry for sociopaths, and I would never try to excuse or justify their actions. If anything, I'm extremely wary of them. Their lack of any sense of guilt or accountability over their behavior make them potentially dangerous.

If they truly are aware that what they're doing is morally wrong, and just don't care, then wouldn't the cause ultimately be a lack of a conscience? After all, our conscience is what nags at us and makes us feel guilty when we've done something wrong. And yet, according to most definitions, sociopaths don't experience guilt. Is that why?
 

TheCheeseBurgerKing

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If they truly are aware that what they're doing is morally wrong, and just don't care, then wouldn't the cause ultimately be a lack of a conscience? After all, our conscience is what nags at us and makes us feel guilty when we've done something wrong. And yet, according to most definitions, sociopaths don't experience guilt. Is that why?

Yes, you could call it a lack of conscience.

They best way for me to explain it is to break it down to the personality of the person who is being "sociopathic".
I've noticed that Fi users really don't know what the hell is going on when they're being manipulated by a Ti user a lot of times.

If you're really good at using Ti, you're gonna judge everything you do as a benefit or a drawback. If you've created a belief system for yourself that says life is a game and everyone is nothing when they die, then you're genuinely not gonna give a shit how a person receives what you do unless it has a sizable impact on you. As soon as he/she enters a situation in their life, a good Ti user is going size it up, assessing what matters and what doesn't. If I have neighbor, and I want to sleep with his wife, and I see that her husband doesn't seem like he's gonna do something about, why in the heck would I not do it? Do I care if they get divorced? Not if there's no one there to look down on me for it. Hell, I might not even care if they do.
- A good example of how a sociopathic Ti user would see a situation.

Fi users are totally different because they act on how the perceive one's character. An INTJ is gonna do something "sociopathic" if they have no respect for the people in the situation.

That's why Ti users vs Fi users do sociopathic stuff. Ti users look at how things are gonna play out, Fi users look at if they respect the people they're dealing with.
 

Tippo

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I had one working for me. He slept with my then/wife, slept with others relations, no moral compass. He later attempted to lock me out of my server based company and alienate me from my core employees.
That would be my summary. He was so surprised by my dominant hand, it still makes me laugh. He couldn't grasp the control was beyond him. He later attacked me physically, this put him squarely with iq. My thought has been, calling a sociopath to the floor, makes them angry and ill witted. Just my opinion.
 

Luke O

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This is a big part of why people get away with sociopathic behavior. People actually believe crap like what you just said.

I was sociopathic for a while, and let me tell you, the intent to harm is there. Sociopaths know exactly what their doing, they just don't give a shit.

If you have an atheist belief system and survival of the fittest mentality, why the hell would you give a damn if something "hurts anothers feelings"? From that point of view, its down right stupid to care. It's only beneficial to care about someone if it somehow helps you, every thing is a business situation.

The fact that people justify shit like being a sociopath and being bipolar really pisses me off because it's so f&*&ing moronic.

It's adaptive behavior that people learn that they can get away with.

Be real with yourself. The whole "Poor dear, you can't feel empathy!" crap is the literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Wake up.

1) You are either sociopathic or not, and you can't cure it. You had some immature phase and you grew out of it.

2) We're talking about sociopathy, not atheism.

3) This "everyone is faking mental illness" crap is touted by people who have little or no understanding of what mental illness is. As evidenced by point 1 :D

4) Go do some research from a variety of sources on this subject. Maybe even get to know people who have mental illness. This may make you sound like you know what you're talking about, rather than a bit like an SJW.
 

TheCheeseBurgerKing

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1) You are either sociopathic or not, and you can't cure it. You had some immature phase and you grew out of it.

2) We're talking about sociopathy, not atheism.

3) This "everyone is faking mental illness" crap is touted by people who have little or no understanding of what mental illness is. As evidenced by point 1 :D

4) Go do some research from a variety of sources on this subject. Maybe even get to know people who have mental illness. This may make you sound like you know what you're talking about, rather than a bit like an SJW.


There are always people in between the spectrum of extreme and minor, those are the people that I'm talking about. I made that pretty clear in what I wrote, but I guess you have no idea how to make a common distinction. They're "bi-polar" because they act grumpy sometimes and then people say "oh they're just bipolar leave them alone". Then they learn that they can get away with it and keep doing it. They're are people who are assholes who never "grow out of it" which is what the person who [MENTION=23115]BadOctopus[/MENTION] sounds like. These people just need to be told to stop being assholes. That's what I'm talking about dude. I made that obvious.

Btw, [bleep], sociopath generally refers to the people that I'm talking about. The really messed up people are usually referred to as psychopaths. Be careful you try to sound clever to buddy, I actually have my facts straight.

I'm not talking about the jeffery dahmers of the world who, i believe, are the outcome of a life of extreme neglection, lack of social attention/social awareness, and maybe some other things which grows into what I myself would classify as mental illness. Those people, obviously, deserve help. I don't know who would say that they don't. But, if you had really paid attention to the point I was getting at, you'd realize that I'm not referring to people like that. Use your head.

If you actually read my entire post... then you would realize that I was addressing the fact that there are a ton of assholes out there who just don't give a fuck and its wrong to act like theres something "clinically" wrong with them. Some (I have to make sure that you realize the difference between some and everyone now) people are just assholes and deserve no sympathy or understanding for the fact that they're assholes. Let me be clear since you obviously have a problem making common distinctions, I'M NOT SAYING THAT PSYCHOPATH KILLERS DONT NEED HELP. I'm saying that people who are total assholes, but have there life together, don't deserve sympathy, they deserve a firm sit down and a fist in the face. Thats enough for a lot of people.

1) How do you know? Oh yeah, you don't.
2) [bleep] You're real clever behind your computer.
3) Again, never once did I say "everyone". It sucks that you don't know how to make a simple distinction. I think you have a mental disorder. You need to be treated, there's no other way you can be fixed.
4) Go [bleep] a [bleep] . I can't stand you know it alls on modern medicine and modern academia's nuts.
 
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Forever_Jung

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They have some wires cut emotionally, is all. I feel bad for them, actually.
 

BadOctopus

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[MENTION=17452]TheCheeseBurgerKing[/MENTION] Just a warning: Your rage and hostility are disproportionate to the subject matter. Try to calm down and use less hateful speech, or you might find yourself banned.
 

Forever_Jung

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I'm saying that people who are total assholes...don't deserve sympathy, they deserve a firm sit down and a fist in the face. Thats enough for a lot of people.

*firmly sits Cheeseburgerking down. Puts fist in his face*

Was that enough?
 

TheCheeseBurgerKing

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[MENTION=7040]Forever_Jung[/MENTION]


Lol, no. I'm not the one who needs to be cured, but thank you

I think the other kid needs to be cured of his know-it-all syndrome. Can you cure him?
 

Mane

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What is sociopathy? How would you define it?

An ill defined fallacy, in service of calming the observer more then understanding the observed.

How do I know that you are a human being capable of sentient experience, and not just a mechanism structured in a way that results in behaviors that mimic and claim sentience? A "P zombie"? We don't, We each know we are sentient but are incapable of proving it for others.

Sounds familiar? P zombie arguments are nothing new. Religions often attribute sentience to the soul, so it's common in religious wars to claim the other side doesn't have a real soul. During the early days of european trade in african slaves, it was a common argument that black people don't have real sentience and merely resemble self-awareness. When it comes to justifying a lack of empathy, P zombie arguments are an essential tool of the trade, they challenge the qualia, the core experience unique to you, and so can't be proven or disproven.

Now, there are people who do things we have a very hard time feeling empathy towards, a lot of us would deem them unthinkable, we don't want to feel empathy towards them because we can't really put ourselves in their shoes without having to see ourselves in ways we wouldn't want too.

To protect our own sensibilities, we've formed a specialized P zombie argument just for them: "Their emotions are not real, they only think they are real and claim they are to be perceived as normal people. Their attachments & relationships are not real, they've only convinced and deluded themselves otherwise. They fake emotional expression and caring and kindness because it serves them better in society".

While this might be useful to comfort us as the outside observers, it doesn't hold much merit as a well reasoned explanation. We don't really understand it well enough to define it by internal mechanisms. The best we know from neurological studies suggests that they can turn on and off emotional reactions, but as the slavery and crusades and wars and inquisitions and various examples of violent mob behavior have shown, under the right circumstances, so can the rest of us.

P.S.
Excellent topic btw.
 

Nicodemus

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He can go find a room full of academics and catch there dicks in his butt hole. That'd probably make him pretty happy.
giphy.gif
 

Luke O

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There are always people in between the spectrum of extreme and minor, those are the people that I'm talking about. I made that pretty clear in what I wrote, but I guess you have no idea how to make a common distinction. They're "bi-polar" because they act grumpy sometimes and then people say "oh they're just bipolar leave them alone". Then they learn that they can get away with it and keep doing it. They're are people who are assholes who never "grow out of it" which is what the person who [MENTION=23115]BadOctopus[/MENTION] sounds like. These people just need to be told to stop being assholes. That's what I'm talking about dude. I made that obvious.

Btw, [bleep], sociopath generally refers to the people that I'm talking about. The really messed up people are usually referred to as psychopaths. Be careful you try to sound clever to buddy, I actually have my facts straight.

I'm not talking about the jeffery dahmers of the world who, i believe, are the outcome of a life of extreme neglection, lack of social attention/social awareness, and maybe some other things which grows into what I myself would classify as mental illness. Those people, obviously, deserve help. I don't know who would say that they don't. But, if you had really paid attention to the point I was getting at, you'd realize that I'm not referring to people like that. Use your head.

If you actually read my entire post... then you would realize that I was addressing the fact that there are a ton of assholes out there who just don't give a fuck and its wrong to act like theres something "clinically" wrong with them. Some (I have to make sure that you realize the difference between some and everyone now) people are just assholes and deserve no sympathy or understanding for the fact that they're assholes. Let me be clear since you obviously have a problem making common distinctions, I'M NOT SAYING THAT PSYCHOPATH KILLERS DONT NEED HELP. I'm saying that people who are total assholes, but have there life together, don't deserve sympathy, they deserve a firm sit down and a fist in the face. Thats enough for a lot of people.

1) How do you know? Oh yeah, you don't.
2) [bleep] You're real clever behind your computer.
3) Again, never once did I say "everyone". It sucks that you don't know how to make a simple distinction. I think you have a mental disorder. You need to be treated, there's no other way you can be fixed.
4) Go [bleep] a [bleep] . I can't stand you know it alls on modern medicine and modern academia's nuts.

Wow. Talk about hitting a nerve here. Wow. Wowee. So much anger. I guess I shouldn't say I was (truthfully) right, and you got angry because you couldn't defend your position very well :D

I barely know her, but [MENTION=23115]BadOctopus[/MENTION] is so, so far from asshole status. She's smart, knows her stuff and knows how to talk to people. Apparently I'm an asshole too, but I'll leave that up to the good people of this forum to exonerate me (please?).

It is clear that you do have little knowledge of mental illness and judging by ypur childish response, you're still a freshman in the university of life. You have so much to learn, but I feel that getting well educated about people isn't beyond your abilities. Seriously, take advantage of this.

Also, read up on neurology, scientists have found differences in the brain structure of sociopaths/psychopaths. Assholes who were that way because of their upbringing are just assholes, there may be nothing wrong with their amygdalae whatsoever.

Anyway:

1) Yes, I do actually do because I read up about it, and also saw a TV programme about psychopathy.
2) I am clever, you know. Luke 1 - Cheese 0
3) Personal insults! Luke 2 - Cheese 0
4) Are you offering? No thank you. Knowing I'm a know-it-all makes me feel better, but then again I knew that anyway.
 
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Frosty

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I think sociopathy is kind of like a spectrum. Some people are farther down the line than others, and I feel that even as people age they lose a bit of empathy towards others. I have had friends say that anyone who is born without a concience deserves to be immediately locked up/killed, but in my opinion as long as someone is able to function in society and refrain from hurting others then it doesnt really matter if they are sociopathic or not.
 
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