"Slap her"

[Eska]

Thoughts?

If this organization is pro-gender equality, I find the message to be somewhat ironic, or, at the very least, poorly demonstrated.

It is suggestive of a multitude of sexist statements, or at least, it can be interpreted as such.

 

[gromit]

I was uncomfortable by the kids feeling okay to touch a female they don't know. They seemed to be more concerned with the filmmaker's permission about the girl's body than the girl's permission herself.

 

[kyuuei]

Italian culture is completely different than culture in other countries, to take a small piece of stance there. I mean.. It really isn't a big deal touching other people. Even here in Texas we touch people all the time, and the same touches are seen as creepy in another state. (To give an example, someone here in NC wanted to pet my faux-fur-lined coat with a large collar.. and I didn't see it as creepy, but the Northern girl that was hanging out with us thought it was a total invasion of my privacy.. to me he was just "ooh sweet sensory experience!") So the term 'caress' in the thing.. I don't really think that's the big thing everyone's talking about. On top of that, children are more likely to touch each other anyways... it isn't so much a matter of personal bubbles, and before and around puberty starting children are just not really so into personal spaces and things like that. They don't quite get it yet. At 9 years old I wouldn't expect anyone to be all, "Oh, hey, can I ask permission to touch your hair a bit after this adult told me it was okay?"

The slapping thing I think has more to do with parental moralities being mirrored in the children than the children themselves. I'm sure I could look up the studies I'm thinking of, but there's a significant portion especially in that age group that don't say things for their own ideas, but more to get the praise of their parents by mimicking their ideas and morals.

On top of ALL of that, there's an authority figure there. An adult, and probably the kids' parents because there's no way they can release a video about these kids without permission from the parents in the first place. So... I don't see it being anti-gender-equality, or ironic, or anything like that. It seems like kids being kids to me.

 

[gromit]

Yes Im sure there's a cultural component.

 

[Ivy]

That was weird. I'm still sorting out how I feel about it. Aside from what [MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION] said, which bothered me too, I found it a little bit patronizing. I'm not a huge fan of telling boys "you don't hit women," I'd much rather boys (and girls) be taught nonviolence in general. I liked some of the boys' responses to being told to slap her- "Jesus doesn't want us to hit others," or "Because I'm nonviolent." It seemed like some of them had been taught to infantilize women, though.

 

[robowolf]

If this organization is pro-gender equality, I find the message to be somewhat ironic, or, at the very least, poorly demonstrated.

It is suggestive of a multitude of sexist statements, or at least, it can be interpreted as such.

If they wanted this video to be pro gender equality, they would have showed a boy slapping a boy and then a boy slapping a girl (or a boy refusing to slap another boy and a girl and a girl refusing to slap another girl and a boy, something along these lines), because boys slap other boys and that's a fact, but according to this they don't slap girls, which means they think girls are physically weaker than men (which btw is true in most cases- ≈60%) or that boys deserve to be slapped more than girls.

The message of this video is that kids nowadays are taught that it's wrong to hit women, and are against domestic violence. I don't think this has anything to do with gender equality.

 

[Eska]

[...]

On top of ALL of that, there's an authority figure there. An adult, and probably the kids' parents because there's no way they can release a video about these kids without permission from the parents in the first place. So... I don't see it being anti-gender-equality, or ironic, or anything like that. It seems like kids being kids to me.

The message suggested by this video, is, not the boys' behaviors.

If they wanted this video to be pro gender equality, they would have showed a boy slapping a boy and then a boy slapping a girl (or a boy refusing to slap another boy and a girl and a girl refusing to slap another girl and a boy, something along these lines), because boys slap other boys and that's a fact, but according to this they don't slap girls, which means they think girls are physically weaker than men (which btw is true in most cases- ≈60%) or that boys deserve to be slapped more than girls.

The message of this video is that kids nowadays are taught that it's wrong to hit women, and are against domestic violence. I don't think this has anything to do with gender equality.

I think you've missed my point.

That's what I was implying, that this video would not be a good representation of gender equality.

It seems to promote the idea that boys should not girls for the sole reason that they're girls.

 

[gromit]

That was weird. I'm still sorting out how I feel about it. Aside from what [MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION] said, which bothered me too, I found it a little bit patronizing. I'm not a huge fan of telling boys "you don't hit women," I'd much rather boys (and girls) be taught nonviolence in general. I liked some of the boys' responses to being told to slap her- "Jesus doesn't want us to hit others," or "Because I'm nonviolent." It seemed like some of them had been taught to infantilize women, though.

I liked those two answers too

 

[Cellmold]

I'm amazed they all seemed to know what career they wanted.

 

[kyuuei]

The message suggested by this video, is, not the boys' behaviors.



I think you've missed my point.

That's what I was implying, that this video would not be a good representation of gender equality.

It seems to promote the idea that boys should not girls for the sole reason that they're girls.

But they're not trying to represent gender equality. They're trying to promote the idea that it is not right to hit women. And... Honestly, that's not an awful message. The reality of the situation is that while I'm all for both gender equality and non-violence in the household.. Overwhelmingly the statistics show that the ones abused in the homes are usually women. I don't think it's trying to imply anything about the genders.

The only part of the video that even remotely bothered me was when one of the kids said, "because she's pretty." But even then.. It's a kid. And those aren't really his true values being reflected. He heard that somewhere along the way, OR he was taught to say that all girls are pretty. Either way, I don't really care, he's like 10.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

It looks like a Just-Say-No public service announcement for pre-teen kids. It's like PSAs telling kids to Just Say "No" to smoking/alcohol/drugs/etc.

Those things tend to be pretty simplistic. They're aimed at kids, after all. There's not much subtlety in public service announcements like "Here's your brain on drugs."

I'm guessing the purpose of this particular PSA is to teach young Italians that the concept of "macho" shouldn't include slapping your girlfriend around.

 

[Ivy]

Yeah, it seems to be a well-meaning campaign about a valid issue facing modern Italy.

Femicide In Italy: Domestic Violence Persists Despite New Laws - Forbes

It's just that some of it still feels icky to me, like the "because she's pretty" part. What if the girl had been less conventionally attractive, or another ethnicity?

 

[Eska]

But they're not trying to represent gender equality. They're trying to promote the idea that it is not right to hit women. And... Honestly, that's not an awful message. The reality of the situation is that while I'm all for both gender equality and non-violence in the household.. Overwhelmingly the statistics show that the ones abused in the homes are usually women. I don't think it's trying to imply anything about the genders.

The only part of the video that even remotely bothered me was when one of the kids said, "because she's pretty." But even then.. It's a kid. And those aren't really his true values being reflected. He heard that somewhere along the way, OR he was taught to say that all girls are pretty. Either way, I don't really care, he's like 10.

Indeed.
That is why I've said, in my original post; "If this organization is pro-gender equality, I find the message to be somewhat ironic [...]".

The message is suggestive of a multitude of sexist statements.

My interpretation of this message is; "Don't hit girls because they're girls."

Rather, they could have targeted domestic violence as a whole, and portrayed both 'worlds'.

Apparently, 40% of domestic violence victims, are men, thus, it is somewhat odd to target women and send a message that women should not be hit for the sole reason that they are women.

One child answered; "Because I'm against violence".

That position, IMO, would have been the main concern if it was equitably presented, regardless of sex.

 

[Ivy]

Is that statistic accurate in Italy, where this PSA was made?

 

[chickpea]

this video really creeped me out the second they brought the girl out. the whole third party "what do you like about her?" and ordering the boys to caress her. it reminded me of porn

 

[á´…eparted]

No. I do not like this at all. The entire thing made me extremely uncomfortable. I had to skip through it due to it.

 

[HongDou]

this video really creeped me out the second they brought the girl out. the whole third party "what do you like about her?" and ordering the boys to caress her. it reminded me of porn

Yeah...I'm kind of worried about the girl now. I hope she's safe.

 

[BadOctopus]

I'll admit the creep factor was pretty high in this clip. Asking the boys what they liked about the girl, and telling them to touch her, was not exactly in the spirit of gender equality. If it was, the girl should have been asked the same questions about the boys.

To be fair, though, I've been to Italy, and I couldn't help noticing that a lot of the men I encountered were extremely flirtatious. It was almost like it was an unconscious, autonomic reflex to flirt with women. So it's not really surprising that the boys in the clip were saying things like "She's pretty" and "I want to be her boyfriend." It seems like a cultural thing that's ingrained in them from childhood.

Not slapping a girl simply because she is a girl isn't much of a reason not to hit someone, but I guess it's better than nothing.

 

[kyuuei]

Indeed.
That is why I've said, in my original post; "If this organization is pro-gender equality, I find the message to be somewhat ironic [...]".

The message is suggestive of a multitude of sexist statements.

My interpretation of this message is; "Don't hit girls because they're girls."

Rather, they could have targeted domestic violence as a whole, and portrayed both 'worlds'.

Apparently, 40% of domestic violence victims, are men, thus, it is somewhat odd to target women and send a message that women should not be hit for the sole reason that they are women.

One child answered; "Because I'm against violence".

That position, IMO, would have been the main concern if it was equitably presented, regardless of sex.

Being pro-gender equality, and respecting culture as it currently stands and not passing judgments are not mutually exclusive. You have to pick and choose your battles, and I argue they went for the bigger picture here.

It is okay to say, 'We are all for gender equality' and also recognize that men are primarily the culprits of violence. On top of that, it's simply showcasing WHY the children (which, like I said before, are mirroring adults they've grown up around) are not hitting the girl, rather than passing any judgments one way or the other. They aren't saying it's OKAY for the boys to think that.. only it's great that they made the right moral decision when it came down to social pressure. It's okay to show that a major deterrent in breaking those moralities or non-violence is simply because they are women and that the children are taught right from the start that women for whatever reason is something that is a serious, grave no-no.. So much so that even around an authority figure that tells them it's okay to do something, they veer against it and refuse. And while the reasons may be seated in positive sexism... I think the Bigger and arguably far more important picture is that it's a safer world for women if boys are taught for whatever reason that smacking and hitting a girl is seriously wrong because it is far less safe for women in this world violence-wise. The domestic violence far exceeds what, to me, is more of a first-world-problem on the motivations why. It isn't perfect, but I think the center of the video being on violence is still okay. It isn't ironic at all that they're pro-gender but highlighting a different, more specific issue, while showcasing the motivations why without passing judgments. And if you're just saying 'if' they were pro-gender because you actually don't know if they are or not... then.. why is it even an issue if they're not pro-gender? The thread wouldn't exist or need to exist at all. So I'm going on the assumption they are here..

There's a famous study where adults.. Full grown adults mind you. Functioning in society. Overwhelmingly shocked to the point of lethal doses people for the SOLE reason that they were told to by someone of authority and that it's 'okay'. For children to say no to that guy, with him having permission to talk from his parents, and him also saying it's okay, for those boys to still say no to me shows a swing in a positive direction. Even if those morals are not their own, and imperfect in their motivations, they've still internalized it. I don't see how that's showing hypocrisy in the filmmakers.

 

[ReadingRainbows]

There's a famous study where adults.. Full grown adults mind you. Functioning in society. Overwhelmingly shocked to the point of lethal doses people for the SOLE reason that they were told to by someone of authority and that it's 'okay'. For children to say no to that guy, with him having permission to talk from his parents, and him also saying it's okay, for those boys to still say no to me shows a swing in a positive direction. Even if those morals are not their own, and imperfect in their motivations, they've still internalized it. I don't see how that's showing hypocrisy in the filmmakers.

They recreate that study every so often for various reasons and the same results keep coming out.