Why Do We Assume Ugly People Are Good?

[Thalassa]

There is no great equalizer in the sky who makes all ugly people nice and pitiable, and makes all beautiful people internal monsters...in fact in some cases outer neglect of the body reflects inner pathology just as surely as compulsive plastic surgery could. No one defends frat douches and party bros as just being "awkward" if they treat women like less than human, but it's totes ok for unattractive guys to do it because they get some free pass?

Neckbeard thread made me realize what we were actually mocking is not obesity or hairstyles but a modern day composite of a male cerebral narcissist (and the one female gamer chick). But some people presume ugly deserves automatic pity just as much as others automatically presume it deserves scorn.

I mean if you are going to pity cerebral narcissists it's not really fair to treat somatic narcissistic personality disorder with scorn. I think this bias is unhealthy, as some one who has loved someone who is a somatic narcissist, I think it's likely that they get all of the abuse, and cerebral narcissists get unwarranted pity because they don't come equipped with pretty faces or superficial charm. Cerebral narcissists are just as unempathetic and therefore emotionally dangerous, so really you need to be wary of both, and if you pity one, pity the other.

Looks don't mean this or that either way, you really have to know a person otherwise you go around thinking everyone is better or worse than they are. Some people have a bias towards beauty, but frankly other people have a bias towards ugly.

 

[Jaguar]

"We" do? I don't.

Is this guy ugly?

What do you think he did when he grew up?

 

[Bush]

Just world fallacy, all the way. Perception is that it isn't "fair" if someone has absolutely nothing going for them; so ugly people must be able to compensate for their ugliness in some other way.

I might have to skim through that other thread.

 

[á´…eparted]

I'm not so sure if the general population assumes that ugly individuals are inherently good. By my gut I'd actually guess the opposite. Depends on how you look at it. Generally speaking it seems like attractive individuals are treated better than unattractive individuals.

It could be though, I am not aware of any studies that were done on this, and at the moment I don't have the energy to look into it. If there has it would be interesting to see. I do know there have been tons of studies that equate looks and related things to behaviors, lifestyles, etc. and from this a meta study could effectively be done to determine what apperances equate to assumptions of who they are.

With me at least though, I don't assume ugly indivduals are good or bad. I haven't see a pattern with it anyway.

 

[Kullervo]

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] http://www.hofstra.edu/pdf/orsp_shahani-denning_spring03.pdf

Attractive people get hired more often, which shouldn't surprise anybody. This is only one example.

I am yet to meet anybody who has a bias towards physically unattractive individuals; it is counterintuitive. People instinctively want the best genetic makeup for their offspring and physical appearance is an indicator of health.

 

[Evee]

"We" do? I don't.

Is this guy ugly?

What do you think he did when he grew up?

That is Andrew Cunanan.

 

[Bullet]

There is no great equalizer in the sky who makes all ugly people nice and pitiable, and makes all beautiful people internal monsters...in fact in some cases outer neglect of the body reflects inner pathology just as surely as compulsive plastic surgery could. No one defends frat douches and party bros as just being "awkward" if they treat women like less than human, but it's totes ok for unattractive guys to do it because they get some free pass?

Neckbeard thread made me realize what we were actually mocking is not obesity or hairstyles but a modern day composite of a male cerebral narcissist (and the one female gamer chick). But some people presume ugly deserves automatic pity just as much as others automatically presume it deserves scorn.

I mean if you are going to pity cerebral narcissists it's not really fair to treat somatic narcissistic personality disorder with scorn. I think this bias is unhealthy, as some one who has loved someone who is a somatic narcissist, I think it's likely that they get all of the abuse, and cerebral narcissists get unwarranted pity because they don't come equipped with pretty faces or superficial charm. Cerebral narcissists are just as unempathetic and therefore emotionally dangerous, so really you need to be wary of both, and if you pity one, pity the other.

Looks don't mean this or that either way, you really have to know a person otherwise you go around thinking everyone is better or worse than they are. Some people have a bias towards beauty, but frankly other people have a bias towards ugly.

The thing is, regarding the neckbeard stereotype, if a guy is overweight, has a "neckbeard" or even just a beard, and wears a fedora, he's going to get labeled a neckbeard whether he has any narcissistic tendencies or not. Even if he's not overweight or has no beard, but wears a fedora, he'll probably get labeled the same.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume the guys in those memes are even necessarily narcissists. They could be...or they might just be jaded. In some cases, they were simply using cheesy poetic lines, but didn't even include any sort of misogynistic element. I think those individuals are symptomatic of the gender roles men are expected to fulfill. If women had the responsibility of initiating romantic or sexual advances in society, you would see a similar phenomenon emerge. It just wouldn't be so amusing to most of the female population in the forum. Double-standards abound aplenty.

 

[prplchknz]

I don't think that, but maybe I should. Actually I'm just gonna keep assuming people are people and until they're wanted for murder or i have proof they're not good people i'm just gonna assume they are

 

[Rasofy]

What if actually the opposite is true?

Though in a community full of liberals and hipsters it might work in a different way. Positive discrimination, if you will.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I think this is actually a reaction to the more commonly & even traditionally held view that beauty is tied to virtue.
We see this still in pop culture - villains are ugly, often even deformed, and the beautiful people are the heroes.
I think this is has obvious metaphorical purpose, but it also seems to be some offering for WHY these ugly people are bad. It's the idea that the world has been harsh to them merely for being ugly. That is what brings forth the compassion.
Then there is resentment towards the advantages the beautiful people have...

But the backlash created by this is that beautiful people are shallow, stupid, vain & selfish. That may be the comforting lie some tell themeless, or also the result of people who may not be beautiful by nature but chase beauty due to being shallow, vain, etc. They may also think beauty goes to the head of such people, and that it makes them arrogant.

I read somewhere that better looking people actually tend to be smarter too (blows the ugly nerd stereotype; turns out the may just be socially awkward AND ugly, not exceptionally smart ). I suppose the idea is that they are too focused on looks to read or pursue intellectual things, but again, I think it's really more of a comforting lie. People especially do this to rationalize their less-than-beautiful partner: "Well, hot girls are bitches anyway! Homely, er, cure girls tend to be sweeter."

I have seen many positive stereotypes about ugly people, ranging from being kinder to being smarter, so it does exist, but how much in practice people are influenced by it instead of just touting it is a different story.

In any case, I would rather be good-looking and bear the harsh prejudice .

 

[Honor]

No one defends frat douches and party bros as just being "awkward" if they treat women like less than human, but it's totes ok for unattractive guys to do it because they get some free pass?

I never noticed this until recently, but it is true. Why is it that when the less attractive, nerdy guys treat people badly, it's dismissed as them "having no social skills"?

 

[Kullervo]

I never noticed this until recently, but it is true. Why is it that when the less attractive, nerdy guys treat people badly, it's dismissed as them "having no social skills"?

Being told that you have no social skills is hardly complimentary.

 

[Thalassa]

I never noticed this until recently, but it is true. Why is it that when the less attractive, nerdy guys treat people badly, it's dismissed as them "having no social skills"?

I don't know but as far as I can tell internet culture is full of men who consider themselves intellectuals but don't have a lot of luck with women, so the pigs at parties are envied or hated because most of them at least have a concept of how to practically obtain sex, and the men who don't feel inherently wronged by their lack of sexual experience, as though it's something society owes them, meanwhile women who would actually sleep with these erstwhile nerds are rejected in favor of some imaginary ideal women they feel they are somehow entitled to. So we should feel sorry for them and pet them and say oh isn't that cute although there's absolutely nothing cute about it..I think off line somatic narcissism is more greatly merited because it often produces an attractive appearance and sometimes wealth, and on line cerebral narcissism is almost played off as being normal for mistyped INTJs et al...I just don't have patience for it all, I find it obnoxious.

 

[Mole]

[MENTION=20829]Attractive people get hired more often, which shouldn't surprise anybody. This is only one example.

I am yet to meet anybody who has a bias towards physically unattractive individuals; it is counterintuitive. People instinctively want the best genetic makeup for their offspring and physical appearance is an indicator of health.

We find those with symmetric features to be attractive. And interestingly symmetric features correlate with better health.

 

[prplchknz]

I don't know but as far as I can tell internet culture is full of men who consider themselves intellectuals but don't have a lot of luck with women, so the pigs at parties are envied or hated because most of them at least have a concept of how to practically obtain sex, and the men who don't feel inherently wronged by their lack of sexual experience, as though it's something society owes them, meanwhile women who would actually sleep with these erstwhile nerds are rejected in favor of some imaginary ideal women they feel they are somehow entitled to. So we should feel sorry for them and pet them and say oh isn't that cute although there's absolutely nothing cute about it..I think off line somatic narcissism is more greatly merited because it often produces an attractive appearance and sometimes wealth, and on line cerebral narcissism is almost played off as being normal for mistyped INTJs et al...I just don't have patience for it all, I find it obnoxious.

yeah but people think they're smarter and more clever than they are often times. so many times i've gotten into a pissing contest with an "INTJ" online and they idiot being a complete moron and no matter how much evidence i through at them that proved them wrong they refused to listen thinking they were geniuses. so my point is you can try to and tell them they're not cute and that's why they're not getting laid but it probably won't work. their fragile male egos couldn't handle it.

 

[Thalassa]

The thing is, regarding the neckbeard stereotype, if a guy is overweight, has a "neckbeard" or even just a beard, and wears a fedora, he's going to get labeled a neckbeard whether he has any narcissistic tendencies or not. Even if he's not overweight or has no beard, but wears a fedora, he'll probably get labeled the same.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume the guys in those memes are even necessarily narcissists. They could be...or they might just be jaded. In some cases, they were simply using cheesy poetic lines, but didn't even include any sort of misogynistic element. I think those individuals are symptomatic of the gender roles men are expected to fulfill. If women had the responsibility of initiating romantic or sexual advances in society, you would see a similar phenomenon emerge. It just wouldn't be so amusing to most of the female population in the forum. Double-standards abound aplenty.

It's the sense of entitlement. That's the whole problem. Obviously decent and attractive men can wear fedoras, and not all fat guys are misogynistic, but you know, it's an image that has emerged in society just like fat goth girl and hairy man hating extreme feminist. People communicate things socially through appearance and sometimes people intentionally align themselves with a certain world view by choosing a particular style, to send off those social cues. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some men who belong to MRA forums and so forth INTENTIONALLY embrace the fedora and neckbeard to show solidarity with their brothers, like urban hipsters wearing dark framed glasses and riding bikes or fans of certain styles of music adopting the aesthetic.

But stereotypes aren't nice, right, I get it. Ok.

 

[Thalassa]

yeah but people think they're smarter and more clever than they are often times. so many times i've gotten into a pissing contest with an "INTJ" online and they idiot being a complete moron and no matter how much evidence i through at them that proved them wrong they refused to listen thinking they were geniuses. so my point is you can try to and tell them they're not cute and that's why they're not getting laid but it probably won't work. their fragile male egos couldn't handle it.

That's totes who I am talking about prpl. Totally.

 

[prplchknz]

That's totes who I am talking about prpl. Totally.

hah yeah they frustrated me.

 

[Thalassa]

What if actually the opposite is true?

Though in a community full of liberals and hipsters it might work in a different way. Positive discrimination, if you will.

Get the fuck out of here. Hipsters love beautiful people.

It depends honestly on what you mean by hipster though really. There's the intentionally contrary angry loner who is possessive of his or her interests, usually they are quite young; then there are the movers and shakers that my ISTP friend labelled hipsters but I honestly wasn't clear on his definition because I think he's frankly confused...people defining the mainstream style before it's mainstream aren't necessarily hipsters, I didn't like his generic take on hipsters liking Britney but hating Lana I am so like wut by your definition Lana is one of the trendsetters and every trend being set isn't counterculture especially not Britney Spears; then there's my definition and that's simply a basic.movement of a.loose collection of the young and with it who are some times following trends but also questions the mainstream and are just basically counterculture people who pay attention to what the fuck is going on culturally.

But yeah I am not sure if you have ever seen an ad for American Apparel or Urban Outfitters: not ugly.

 

[Kierva]

We find those with symmetric features to be attractive. And interestingly symmetric features correlate with better health.

A circle is symmetrical.