A theory

[yeghor]

I behave very differently online than what I do in real life, still my motives are the same, online I am more what I'd like to be. But being on the internet is just a stupid waste of time... escapism! Everyone I meet on the internet, I'll never meet in real life, and no one here is really my friend.

Deep emotional connection cannot be found online. It's an astounding venue to share ideas though. Back in the days, intellectuals could only interact with each other thru letters and books and universities, and had limited access to ideas and thoughts that had the chance to spark new ideas in them.

 

[Ene]

I kind of agree. Damn, I've seen so many people on here saying things to me they wouldn't say IRL.

I hate to think that nearly everyone is just cowering behind the computer screen (although this happens), but it's also an artificial sort of socializing--quiet people can come off looking talkative and long-winded, etc. This isn't real socializing, so we are bound to "vibe" differently than we are.

Yeah, I've given up on typing people online exactly for the reasons we're both mentioning. It's NOT real interaction, and we can present ourselves as anything we want. You're absolutely right.

In my own case, I swear to God my mind works the same online as it does IRL, but you have to get to know me before you see that side of me. Plus, words sometimes come out of my mouth differently than they sound when I think them (I mean, I would never say "Oh my goodness", but I've typed it a few times), then different individuals will read an interpret my words slightly differently...of course our doppelgangers come out online.

Also,

FWIW, I've been told I come across as a 6, 7, 1, 9, or occasionally 8 online (though the 8 is disputable to many because I don't waste much time with online arguments). IRL, most people (my own family) seemed to think I was a 4 or 5 when I showed them years ago. They'd never figure me for a 9. Go figure out those discrepancies. Those who find me plain-spoken, interesting, and chatty online would be taken aback by how withdrawn, asocial, and non-participatory I am upon first meeting IRL.

I swear, though, I am still the same person inside my head.

I love how you say that it's NOT real interaction. A large part of true communication is nonverbal. In fact, for years now people have argued about just what percentage nonverbal cues play in communication How much of communication is really nonverbal? | Nonverbal The bottom line, or point that I'm making is, that ALL of us, no matter how authentic we hope to be, are but a shadow of our true selves online. That's why, in my own opinion, people are more connected than they've ever been, yet more lonely.

I also appreciate the reference you make to people hiding behind a computer. I feel often that people say things to me they would never say IRL. I try not to do that but I admit that online I have a better filter online than in real life, but I've pretty much always got a filter. Most things get processed before they get said or written.

Also, [MENTION=360]prplchknz[/MENTION] just out of curiosity, what is your type? I was under the impression you were an INFP.

 

[prplchknz]

Also, [MENTION=360]prplchknz[/MENTION] just out of curiosity, what is your type? I was under the impression you were an INFP.

no longer sure, when I typed INFP i was under a lot of shit, and very unhealthy. And reading up on it I don't really relate. But that being said I dunno my type.

 

[prplchknz]

I kind of agree. Damn, I've seen so many people on here saying things to me they wouldn't say IRL.

I hate to think that nearly everyone is just cowering behind the computer screen (although this happens), but it's also an artificial sort of socializing--quiet people can come off looking talkative and long-winded, etc. This isn't real socializing, so we are bound to "vibe" differently than we are.

Yeah, I've given up on typing people online exactly for the reasons we're both mentioning. It's NOT real interaction, and we can present ourselves as anything we want. You're absolutely right.

In my own case, I swear to God my mind works the same online as it does IRL, but you have to get to know me before you see that side of me. Plus, words sometimes come out of my mouth differently than they sound when I think them (I mean, I would never say "Oh my goodness", but I've typed it a few times), then different individuals will read an interpret my words slightly differently...of course our doppelgangers come out online.

FWIW, I've been told I come across as a 6, 7, 1, 9, or occasionally 8 online (though the 8 is disputable to many because I don't waste much time with online arguments). IRL, most people (my own family) seemed to think I was a 4 or 5 when I showed them years ago. They'd never figure me for a 9. Go figure out those discrepancies. Those who find me plain-spoken, interesting, and chatty online would be taken aback by how withdrawn, asocial, and non-participatory I am upon first meeting IRL.

I swear, though, I am still the same person inside my head.

yeah we're still all the same people in our heads no matter how we act. But the thing is people type people here off of their posts, and that's fine that is one part of the puzzle. But rarely have I had any one listen to me when I explain why I did something and how it doesn't align with their interpretation. Don't we use all functions just in varying degrees? some are more developed then others. It has a lot to do with bias.

 

[Galena]

I hate to think that nearly everyone is just cowering behind the computer screen (although this happens), but it's also an artificial sort of socializing--quiet people can come off looking talkative and long-winded, etc. This isn't real socializing, so we are bound to "vibe" differently than we are. .

Ick.

I think it is a sign of good health when the public/private, online/offline splits begin to close up. Not that I don't have them - they gross me out, in fact, because I know them very intimately.

Unlike a lot of posters say, online is part of the "public" behavioral sphere for me. It didn't used to be, but it became so as I got older. I won't be any more confrontational here than I'd be in real life. Perhaps I'm more self-disclosing here, but then, I disclose just as much if I am in a situation in the flesh that encourages and rewards it to the degree that places like this site do. There are just very few of those situations IRL, and seeking them is far more arduous.

The real split for me is public vs intimate, not online vs off. With those closest to me, I will confront freely, be angry, express emotionally. They could actually tell I'm a type 4 - wow, right? In public, I've had formative experiences that objectively proved a lack of strength in certain areas, so I don't give anything an opening. The only thing that could change this is new experiential evidence (I live and die by evidence) that I can do what I failed to before. I get stuck on preparing forever in private for the right moment - playing games with my endurance, reading, training my body, etc.

As far as type goes, I can't stomach the belief that who one is where they're comfortable is who they really are. The more pressure one is under, the more their true colors will show. I think the only thoughts or behaviors that are relevant to type at all are those that coincide: internal motivations and beliefs that are backed up by action in the time and place they are intended for (not vented at home when they are really about work, explored inside when one dreams of living them, etc). The bottled up is a fantasy as much as a mask is. No time for introspecting + no tolerance for masks = typing.

 

[Ene]

no longer sure, when I typed INFP i was under a lot of shit, and very unhealthy. And reading up on it I don't really relate. But that being said I dunno my type.

You know you better than anybody and that certainly carries more weight than online discussions with strangers. However, the online discussion with strangers does provide us a neutral and virtual place to explore. Nardi said in one post I that at any one time each of us are engaging a minimum of two functions. Here, I think I can find the exact quote...

"In complexity science, we might say your type is a strange attractor. In practice this means, while many combinations of function use or other qualities are possible, in practice there are "gravitational pulls" toward to certain spaces that are notably sustainable.

With regard to the functions, I believe a healthy adult needs at least two functions in play most of the time. Why? Because we're all pretty much tasked to do extraverting and introverting, perceiving and judging. We need a minimum of two functions to cover those bases. For example, Ni with Te. (Those happen to be my preferences, represented as INTJ).

After those two, my research suggests that the second most common pattern is our near-opposite personality type, say ISFP for INTJ. That's Fi + Se. As I look at the brain activity of midlife adults now in my lab, and not just college students, I see this more than ever. I've had two midlife INFJs. Could hardly tell if they are INFJ or ISTP.

Because personality is a pattern, and people are organic and messy, I think it's inevitable that we express aspects of all 8 functions, though not always consciously or effectively....." Dario Nardi

So, in a sense, his theory supports your own.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

yeah we're still all the same people in our heads no matter how we act. But the thing is people type people here off of their posts, and that's fine that is one part of the puzzle. But rarely have I had any one listen to me when I explain why I did something and how it doesn't align with their interpretation. Don't we use all functions just in varying degrees? some are more developed then others. It has a lot to do with bias.

Yeah, you're right about that. Most professional practitioners won't formally type people without an in-person meeting, which I think corroborates what you're saying. I feel your frustration about people who won't listen to your explanations as well--this has happened to me in other places, at other times.

Yeah, we use all the functions, too, in my mind. At least, I'm sure I'm an ENTP, yet I catch myself doing Se and Fi stuff all the time. I don't have those as part of my overall Ne + Ti process, but that doesn't mean I don't use the functions in some form. Silly internet.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

I love how you say that it's NOT real interaction. A large part of true communication is nonverbal. In fact, for years now people have argued about just what percentage nonverbal cues play in communication How much of communication is really nonverbal? | Nonverbal The bottom line, or point that I'm making is, that ALL of us, no matter how authentic we hope to be, are but a shadow of our true selves online. That's why, in my own opinion, people are more connected than they've ever been, yet more lonely.

I'm someone who is largely oblivious to body language, but I have to agree on this. There have been times online, for instance, where people don't know how to BACK THE FUCK DOWN from me. IRL, I could easily give them a warning look, but this presence is lost online. I find myself having to argue back interminably because folks can't read physical self-assertion online. I wind up in situations I don't normally get into IRL.

Not only that, but it's also slower. I can write out a full-fledged response without interruption, edit my words, look up sources, etc. before anyone else is privy to my thoughts.

I also appreciate the reference you make to people hiding behind a computer. I feel often that people say things to me they would never say IRL. I try not to do that but I admit that online I have a better filter online than in real life, but I've pretty much always got a filter. Most things get processed before they get said or written.

Yeah, I try not to do that myself (hide behind a computer screen). One of my points of "online honor" is not to say anything on the computer I wouldn't say IRL. Yet, I feel that (SOME) others do this. Some folks' online conduct simply wouldn't work in the real world. It's always like, do you wanna get offline and say that to my face? Because I am sure 90% of those people wouldn't dare.

Ick.

I think it is a sign of good health when the public/private, online/offline splits begin to close up. Not that I don't have them - they gross me out, in fact, because I know them very intimately.

Unlike a lot of posters say, online is part of the "public" behavioral sphere for me. It didn't used to be, but it became so as I got older. I won't be any more confrontational here than I'd be in real life. Perhaps I'm more self-disclosing here, but then, I disclose just as much if I am in a situation in the flesh that encourages and rewards it to the degree that places like this site do. There are just very few of those situations IRL, and seeking them is far more arduous.

That's interesting. You have a very different reaction to my post that Ene did above. Would you say that the majority of posters treat forums as other than public? I find that an interesting question because, in the subject of typology, we're discussing very intimate psychological phenomenon within a public sphere.

As far as type goes, I can't stomach the belief that who one is where they're comfortable is who they really are. The more pressure one is under, the more their true colors will show. I think the only thoughts or behaviors that are relevant to type at all are those that coincide: internal motivations and beliefs that are backed up by action in the time and place they are intended for (not vented at home when they are really about work, explored inside when one dreams of living them, etc). The bottled up is a fantasy as much as a mask is. No time for introspecting + no tolerance for masks = typing.

I agree. You don't really know who people are till the shit hits the fan. It is often through out unconscious, knee-jerk reactions that our types become apparent--generally moreso to others than to ourselves. Unfortunately, I think these things are harder to capture on forum commentary.

 

[small.wonder]

You could be 486 then. Don't know why but the closest is 468 tritype.

Work on that enneagram 3 charm. I already sense some type 3 playfulness

Erm, as far as I know, one does not "work on" characteristics of a type they have no line to. I've heard people say they are "working toward" integration by trying to develop the traits of their health point, but I think that's a little backwards too-- work on self, integration happens. Not visa versa. Plus, I'm sure you realize how insulting it is to a 4 to suggest they become something else-- especially something deceitful and fake.

468 is the other one I did consider (458, 468 and 451) even though I actually test pretty low in 6 (6, 2 and 3 are my bottom scores usually, 2 has definitely been higher the less healthy I am though). I do fancy myself a truth teller, but probably not to the firecracker extent of 468 if I'm honest. When I first started looking at tritype, I basically scoured the internet for credible info on the three I narrowed it down to and took notes. From there I could pretty clearly see which characteristics were truer of myself.

 

[small.wonder]

The real split for me is public vs intimate, not online vs off. With those closest to me, I will confront freely, be angry, express emotionally. They could actually tell I'm a type 4 - wow, right? In public, I've had formative experiences that objectively proved a lack of strength in certain areas, so I don't give anything an opening. The only thing that could change this is new experiential evidence (I live and die by evidence) that I can do what I failed to before. I get stuck on preparing forever in private for the right moment - playing games with my endurance, reading, training my body, etc.

Hey! Was just reading and had to comment: the bolded is very 5, have you contemplated a 5 wing (not that all 4's don't have some fragments of both sides in them)? I mean the mention of evidence is obvious, but that's not even really what I'm talking about. The preparing, reading, researching all with the intent of doing something well, but not wanting to until you are sure all the ducks are in a row-- that's 5. The Wisdom of the Enneagram describes it as "stepping back" until everything is right, or known or whatever the case by be, but often that turns into years of waiting it out. I digress, and surely you know your type better than anyone, just wanted to share the thought.

 

[prplchknz]

I'm someone who is largely oblivious to body language, but I have to agree on this. There have been times online, for instance, where people don't know how to BACK THE FUCK DOWN from me. IRL, I could easily give them a warning look, but this presence is lost online. I find myself having to argue back interminably because folks can't read physical self-assertion online. I wind up in situations I don't normally get into IRL.

Not only that, but it's also slower. I can write out a full-fledged response without interruption, edit my words, look up sources, etc. before anyone else is privy to my thoughts.


Yeah, I try not to do that myself (hide behind a computer screen). One of my points of "online honor" is not to say anything on the computer I wouldn't say IRL. Yet, I feel that (SOME) others do this. Some folks' online conduct simply wouldn't work in the real world. It's always like, do you wanna get offline and say that to my face? Because I am sure 90% of those people wouldn't dare.


That's interesting. You have a very different reaction to my post that Ene did above. Would you say that the majority of posters treat forums as other than public? I find that an interesting question because, in the subject of typology, we're discussing very intimate psychological phenomenon within a public sphere.


I agree. You don't really know who people are till the shit hits the fan. It is often through out unconscious, knee-jerk reactions that our types become apparent--generally moreso to others than to ourselves. Unfortunately, I think these things are harder to capture on forum commentary.

so when a crisis happens I fall apart, then I become very authortative and directive. and start directing people in what needs to be done, If i see a solution i will do everything in my power to make sure that gets done. I will call people. If someone gets emotional (and I get emotional) and not listening to reason I get more angry when i tell them that they're doing x and that's what's causing the problem to stop doing x and try y instead but they keep doing x. Or if their actions aren't aligning with there words. When I tell someone I'm gonna do something for them, I do it. If I can't get in done by the original time I've said I let them know. or if it turns out I'm not able to, but damnit I'm gonna try. I'll apologize, if I can pay for it to be fixed I'll pay it.Like I mean on stuff that has monetary value vs stuff that doesn't. And it's interesting when I get emotional it sometimes has to do with hurt pride or ego but a lot of times why my pride or ego is hurt is the other person is handling the situation in an irrational manner. I'm more likely to get angry over the fact that you're claiming you never leave dirty dishes out not admitting that you do then you actually leaving dirty dishes out. Or you accuse me of something and you do the same thing. If I'm doing something and you accuse me and it's true but you aren't doing the same thing I'll take care of it. I'll get angry for 30 seconds-minutes vs a hypocritical or false accusation will leave me mad for days at least.

 

[Kullervo]

I have been mistyped a lot on here by various well-wishers (sarcasm intended), mainly as an ISTJ. Much of this is due to the pervasive immature political stereotyping hereabout, and shows poor understanding of the ideological diversity that exists amongst non-liberals. I get that you find ideological differences abhorrent and are desperate to eliminate them so children cannot acquire "racist tendencies". Society must be cleansed of all injustice and discrimination! Revolution! Now finish your coffees and go back to school.

But I digress. I suspect the style of language I am learning to use in writing (direct, concrete and formal) probably aids the impression of SJ-ness. I also worship the ideas of heroism and leadership through physical and strategic superiority, of individuals showing that they are outstanding. Perhaps not so many INTJs are attracted to this, I really don't know - and neither do any of you.

In reality, I am pretty laid back ("relax" is my default response to my ESFJ mum), procrastinate constantly and tend to impiously use Ni as a tool to cut as many corners as possible. I am also a lot more sensitive and caring than I like to let out. I have a tendency to have outbursts, get emotional over all kinds of shit and moan about how I don't have a girlfriend and can't see any purpose for myself in life. These don't fit with my image very well. So why am I even saying this? Because I have a heart and need to vent, and as almost all of you hate me anyway how much worse can it get.

 

[Jaguar]

I have been typed a lot on here by various well-wishers (sarcasm intended), mainly as an ISTJ.

I almost said "add me to the list," until I realized you're not the so-called INTJ I was thinking of.

 

[yeghor]

Erm, as far as I know, one does not "work on" characteristics of a type they have no line to. I've heard people say they are "working toward" integration by trying to develop the traits of their health point, but I think that's a little backwards too-- work on self, integration happens. Not visa versa. Plus, I'm sure you realize how insulting it is to a 4 to suggest they become something else-- especially something deceitful and fake.

468 is the other one I did consider (458, 468 and 451) even though I actually test pretty low in 6 (6, 2 and 3 are my bottom scores usually, 2 has definitely been higher the less healthy I am though). I do fancy myself a truth teller, but probably not to the firecracker extent of 468 if I'm honest. When I first started looking at tritype, I basically scoured the internet for credible info on the three I narrowed it down to and took notes. From there I could pretty clearly see which characteristics were truer of myself.

I don't think it's insulting. I can understand that it might look like that from 4s' perspective though. I think it implies an unwillingness to consider what other people think about the 4, which brings me to the subject of developing 3ish traits for a more balanced personality.

4s need to develop their ability to give more consideration to other people's preferences, align themselves according to those preferences and give more weight to what others think about the 4. In other words 4s need to develop more Fe to offset their Fi thru developing more enneagram 2 and 3ish traits. Furthermore, there are shades to enneagram 3 and Fe, and fakeness and deceitfulness are just one aspect of it. Healthier aspects include genuine concern for other people. Enneagram 3s need to develop their enneagram 4 side as well so as to develop their authentic core identity. That, for instance, started happening for me in my late 20s.

As for the thing about integration requiring connection between two enneagram types, I do not adhere to those systems. My comment was based on my own understanding of enneagram types.

 

[ygolo]

The version I am on here is more emotional and negative. My more upbeat version doesn't feel like posting here. Today, for instance, I have been exceedingly sleepy and tired for no apparent reason...maybe I just needed the rest.

 

[prplchknz]

The version I am on here is more emotional and negative. My more upbeat version doesn't feel like posting here. Today, for instance, I have been exceedingly sleepy and tired for no apparent reason...maybe I just needed the rest.

that's how I am. irl i have a hard time expressing emotions and i try not be negative. so you people get all that shit.

 

[Bush]

I bite my tongue and sugarcoat just a little bit more in real life.
[MENTION=18576]Sanjuro[/MENTION]'s on the money with the idea that the true self comes out in stressful situations. Between that true self, the 'normal self,' and the online self, I'd wager that the first and third are similar.

 

[EJCC]

I only realized recently that people don't get a good glimpse of my Te here. I'm very, very obviously Te-dominant in real life. You can see it pretty clearly in my videos. I think it's something about this medium, and this type of conversation, that doesn't allow for Te/Si to show itself. Probably because what happens on the forum isn't really task/goal-oriented, in a direct sense.

On the other hand, I'm pretty damn ESTJ in the modbox.

Unlike a lot of posters say, online is part of the "public" behavioral sphere for me. It didn't used to be, but it became so as I got older. I won't be any more confrontational here than I'd be in real life. Perhaps I'm more self-disclosing here, but then, I disclose just as much if I am in a situation in the flesh that encourages and rewards it to the degree that places like this site do. There are just very few of those situations IRL, and seeking them is far more arduous.

...As far as type goes, I can't stomach the belief that who one is where they're comfortable is who they really are. The more pressure one is under, the more their true colors will show. I think the only thoughts or behaviors that are relevant to type at all are those that coincide: internal motivations and beliefs that are backed up by action in the time and place they are intended for (not vented at home when they are really about work, explored inside when one dreams of living them, etc). The bottled up is a fantasy as much as a mask is. No time for introspecting + no tolerance for masks = typing.

Interesting. I agree on all of this. A big part of why I'm more Te in real life, is because the forum is a place of introspection for me, which necessitates that I think a lot before I post. Whereas in real life I don't give myself time for that, and am more likely to leap into things / less likely to pick my battles when someone is being ignorant.

Which isn't to say that my "true self" is a jerk. Just that I am not terribly level-headed in heated discussions, where I don't have the luxury of taking a few minutes to calm down before I reply. On the forum, I have that luxury -- but in real life, I don't.

I'm someone who is largely oblivious to body language, but I have to agree on this. There have been times online, for instance, where people don't know how to BACK THE FUCK DOWN from me. IRL, I could easily give them a warning look, but this presence is lost online. I find myself having to argue back interminably because folks can't read physical self-assertion online. I wind up in situations I don't normally get into IRL.

This is interesting. Seems pretty common on internet forums, but I've never been able to relate. What keeps you from stepping back and letting it go?

Edit: I think that the reason why I can't relate, is that I don't usually give off very strong emotional signals one way or another. And if I end up giving off angry signals during a discussion, that usually doesn't mean that I want the discussion to end.

Yeah, I try not to do that myself (hide behind a computer screen). One of my points of "online honor" is not to say anything on the computer I wouldn't say IRL. Yet, I feel that (SOME) others do this. Some folks' online conduct simply wouldn't work in the real world. It's always like, do you wanna get offline and say that to my face? Because I am sure 90% of those people wouldn't dare.

Totally -- I'm the same way.

 

[prplchknz]

ok I've thought more about the conflict avoidant thing and I am more so irl. Like if I know the person is a stubborn asshole, or that I could get royally screwed over I'll avoid it. But if there's a chance to make things better in the long run I'm not. I guess I choose my battles more wisely irl.

 

[EJCC]

ok I've thought more about the conflict avoidant thing and I am more so irl. Like if I know the person is a stubborn asshole, or that I could get royally screwed over I'll avoid it. But if there's a chance to make things better in the long run I'm not. I guess I choose my battles more wisely irl.

Why do you think you behave differently irl, in that regard?