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Men, Women, and Monkeys (split)

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
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4w5
I agree with this. I don't find gender based humor funny at all, and not even because I think it's 'harmful' or ideological. It just plain isn't funny.
I get a hunch that this might be due to your and MP not really identifying much with your gender.

And that's totally cool and legit.

I am one of those people who is mystified by her heterosexuality, and who views a distinct pattern amongst both men and women and when people speak about these differences, if their assessment happens to be accurate, I can and do find myself relating.

I know that there are exceptions to the rule, my sister being one. She is more masculine than most men, for real.

She works in production is competitive as hell and has zero tolerance for relationship intimacy and issues, she is *not* the girl you call when having problems with your SO or your best friend, etc.

I am always observing men, and more specifically men that I happen to get romantically involved with, obviously they were all individuals, but they too were all heterosexual males, and they all exhibited similar "male" qualities, bless their little hearts.

Yes, well, hmm, women and men, there is in fact a difference.

:)
 

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
Joined
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I hear women say things like this, but I always wonder if it is because they feel they ought to say it. I mean do many women in happy relationships really feel this way? Heck I don't feel this way even when my relationship with husband is getting me down and I'd like to fast track him to the moon.

When young and single, I had a lot more sexual thoughts and interest than I ever let on because it is just not "safe" to be that open. I tend to think women are just as sexual as men but it is not safe to always allow it come to surface. Then too I see a lot of women in vastly unhappy relationships who use sex as power leverage as something to withhold. I never understand how they are able to do that.

That bothers me on so many levels. Number one, way to let your partner know that sex with him is such a drag that you consider it currency. Number two, if you actually enjoy sex, why would you punish yourself?

As for the "sex = nice bath = ice cream = TV" sentiment? No, I don't feel that way in a general sense. Sex is way better and I'd rather do it. But there are times when I would choose one of the others over sex because I'm just not feeling sexy. I don't think that is true of my husband very often.

And I think you're dead-on about it not being safe to express that aspect of ourselves. Hell, I self-censor a lot of my sexual comments on this forum, even, because I get the impression people think of me as a maternal figure and the societal pressures not to mix madonna and whore are very strong. My usertitle on INTPC for a long time was "Sacred and Profane."

Romance novel heronines usually have a lot of sex. Even the Regency ones now have a lot of sex. ;)

But they're starry-eyed while they're getting it on!
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
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Oh, regarding the whole sex (as in coitus) thing.

I know that I really must be in the mood to really have sex, granted there were times when I would just give it a go to please my mate but he knew that, regarding sex, I was the ultimate gate keeper, if I didn't feel like it, he would have to either work hard at making me feel like it, ahem yes, a whole lot of foreplay on his behalf, or accept the fact that he wasn't going to get laid.

Should sex be more democratically allotted?

Perhaps, but I like the notion of having sex whenever *I* feel like it.

:D
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
Oh, regarding the whole sex (as in coitus) thing.

I know that I really must be in the mood to really have sex, granted there were times when I would just give it a go to please my mate but he knew that, regarding sex, I was the ultimate gate keeper, if I didn't feel like it, he would have to either work hard at making me feel like it, ahem yes, a whole lot of foreplay on his behalf, or accept the fact that he wasn't going to get laid.

Should sex be more democratically allotted?

Wanting to be wooed a bit or needing foreplay is different from what I am talking about. I just see that as part of the whole act.

Perhaps, but I like the notion of having sex whenever *I* feel like it.

:D

Oh I agree with the above.

I had an old friend who used to make her husband promise to buy her outfits (when their budget was really strained already) in exchange for sex and she would laugh later at how desperately he pleaded. It really sickened me, but I also didn't understand how she could do so long without sex. I mean from what she said, she was like a block of ice about it. I'd say more, but lol this is a message board and I already say too damn much as it is!
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
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I get a hunch that this might be due to your and MP not really identifying much with your gender.

And that's totally cool and legit.

The problem here is very simple. Who is defining whether or not I identify with my gender? I'm apparently not very male, even though I am a male in every possible way. This doesn't make sense.

In other words, if I'm a man and I behave this way, than I'm apparently behaving a way that a man might behave. Get it? This is apparently male behvaior, because its being acted out by a male.

This exact problem came up in an entirely different sort of thread. It was the silly thread about dressing up as another MBTI type. I decided to mock it by claiming that I'd dress up as an INTP, and then described a very stereo-typical depiction of an INTP that is also nothing like the way I dress. I then said I normally dress like an INFP. The joke here, is that if I'm a n INTP, then however I dress is apparently the way an INTP would dress.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
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Oy vey, not male vs. female, but masculine traits versus feminine traits.

One can be an androgynous male or female, a female can have masculine traits and a male can have feminine traits.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
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Then what is the source of the definition of masculine and feminine, and what good is having them?
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
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So, does that mean I somehow have less testorone and more estrogen than is male?

You also didn't answer the second questions, which I would be very interested in.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
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I would be willing to say that I have a bit more testosterone coercing through my veins than most females.

And my sister certainly has a lot more testosterone than most females.

Perhaps you do not have/process as much testosterone as the average male, so, big whoop, right?

I personally never liked uber-masculine men.

Testosterone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
Joined
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Then what is the source of the definition of masculine and feminine, and what good is having them?

It sounds like you're asking her to place a value on masculine and feminine, when she's just trying to relate to you that she thinks they exist. CC has been pretty neutral about the terms and I haven't seen her say that a guy has to have a full deck of masculine traits to be a "real man" or anything of that nature.

If you graphed masculine and feminine traits among large populations of men and women, there would be some overlap, but the basic trends would be there. There's no reason to reverse-engineer that and say that WITHOUT all those traits an individual isn't manly or womanly, and I don't think anyone is saying that here. Statistics don't apply to individuals.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
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I think around 160 to 170 pounds, 6ft is A+ for a guy. ;)
Shhh, quiet you, I do too!!!

It sounds like you're asking her to place a value on masculine and feminine, when she's just trying to relate to you that she thinks they exist. CC has been pretty neutral about the terms and I haven't seen her say that a guy has to have a full deck of masculine traits to be a "real man" or anything of that nature.

If you graphed masculine and feminine traits among large populations of men and women, there would be some overlap, but the basic trends would be there. There's no reason to reverse-engineer that and say that WITHOUT all those traits an individual isn't manly or womanly, and I don't think anyone is saying that here. Statistics don't apply to individuals.
Thank you.

:hug:
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
When talking about "stereotypical" masculine or feminine traits: It is like the average man likely 60 percent masculine, 40 percent female. Average woman 60 percent female traits, 40 percent masculine. And then varations with individuals in all directions.
 

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
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It's that extra inch of height--I think we can make an allowance in your case.
 
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