Surviving and Thriving

[Mole]

Survival requires we focus on the outside; while thriving requires we focus on the inside.

Most of us focus on the outside so we are in survival mode. We take the survival mode for granted because everyone around us is in the survival mode.

Some cultures live in the survival mode until their children are raised and leave home, then they put on the robes of a monk or nun and pursue the inner life in order to thrive.

Our tradition is the opposite of this: we value youth who are necessarily in the survival mode, and we leave no room in our lives for thriving by focusing on the inner.

In fact those who are thriving and focusing on the inner make those in survival mode uncomfortable. So those in survival mode see thriving as a threat to their survival.

The Ancient Greeks by contrast saw contemplation as the chief good, but modern economics sees the anxiety of the survival mode as driving consumer demand.

The ideal life as the Ancient Greeks saw was to have our survival needs met so we could devote ourselves to thriving and the inner life.

 

[Qlip]

That is unless you happened to be, as most people were in Ancient Greece, a slave or serf, then you just worked your ass off.

 

[yeghor]

Survival requires we focus on the outside; while thriving requires we focus on the inside.

Most of us focus on the outside so we are in survival mode. We take the survival mode for granted because everyone around us is in the survival mode.

Some cultures live in the survival mode until their children are raised and leave home, then they put on the robes of a monk or nun and pursue the inner life in order to thrive.

Our tradition is the opposite of this: we value youth who are necessarily in the survival mode, and we leave no room in our lives for thriving by focusing on the inner.

In fact those who are thriving and focusing on the inner make those in survival mode uncomfortable. So those in survival mode see thriving as a threat to their survival.

The Ancient Greeks by contrast saw contemplation as the chief good, but modern economics sees the anxiety of the survival mode as driving consumer demand.

The ideal life as the Ancient Greeks saw was to have our survival needs met so we could devote ourselves to thriving and the inner life.

Consumerism requires keeping people in a primal state, anxious, fearful, unsatisfied so that they would seek gratification from the outside, which some opportunist are so glad to provide at a certain price of course...

There needs to be a fine balance between them though... The balance seems to have shifted too much towards survival and narcissism...since always?

 

[Mole]

Consumerism requires keeping people in a primal state, anxious, fearful, unsatisfied so that they would seek gratification from the outside, which some opportunist are so glad to provide at a certain price of course...

There needs to be a fine balance between them though... The balance seems to have shifted too much towards survival and narcissism...since always?

The Ancient Greeks had their survival needs met by slaves, while we have our survival needs met by technology.

The Ancient Greeks then created a thriving philosophy which is the basis of Western philosophy.
The Ancient Greeks thrived and saw that the Gods were expressions of natural forces and so began science.
The Ancient Greeks thrived and created great and enduring sculptures, and architecture, and the greatest of plays.
The Ancient Greeks thrived and saw that power tends to corrupt and so invented democracy to limit power and maximise freedom.
The Ancient Greeks were so accomplished that the Ancient Greek language became the lingua franca of the Ancient world.
So the New Testament was written in Ancient Greek, and it was Ancient Greek texts that gave birth to the European Renaissance and the modern world.

 

[Mole]

The Patsies of the Bourgeoisie

Consumerism requires keeping people in a primal state, anxious, fearful, unsatisfied so that they would seek gratification from the outside, which some opportunist are so glad to provide at a certain price of course...

There needs to be a fine balance between them though... The balance seems to have shifted too much towards survival and narcissism...since always?

The bourgeois revolution of 1776 gave us the mercantile imperative.

The mercantile imperative is to make enough money so that the currency becomes the Reserve Currency of the world.

The USA has achieved this mercantile imperative 70 years ago.

The Reserve Currency of the world is an exorbitant privilege which the USA maintains by controlling consumers.

The easiest consumers to control are youth.

And although youth are financially and emotionally dependent on their parents, they have the illusion they are in control, and so bourgeois control by consumerism is invisible to them.

The youth are the patsies of the bourgeoisie.

 

[Typh0n]

That is unless you happened to be, as most people were in Ancient Greece, a slave or serf, then you just worked your ass off.

The term "serf" applies to a medieval rank. People in Ancient Greece who were slaves were not ethnic Greeks, they were captives.


I agree with Mole and Yeghor.

 

[BlackDog]

The term "serf" applies to a medieval rank. People in Ancient Greece who were slaves were not ethnic Greeks, they were captives.


I agree with Mole and Yeghor.

That's even worse, because it means they were racists as well as slave masters. They were a bunch of hypocrites who contributed nothing to the world by sitting around trying to sound intelligent.

In reality, they accomplished nothing. Probably hundreds of ancient cultures did what they did, and it was just forgotten.

No, the superstitious monks who wrote all their stuff down are the ones who actually made the contributions to civilization which people like Leonardo Da Vinci who understood the real world were able to use to create technologies which later they rationalized with a bunch of Greek stuff. The Greeks are highly overrated. The Italians are the ones who started it all.

 

[Mole]

The Greeks are highly overrated.

The Ancient Romans thought so highly of Ancient Greek culture, they made sure their children had Greek tutors.

And today it is impossible to understand Western civilization without reading and writing Ancient Greek. So why not follow in the footsteps of the children of Rome and get a tutor of Ancient Greek?

 

[BlackDog]

The Ancient Romans thought so highly of Ancient Greek culture, they made sure their children had Greek tutors.

And today it is impossible to understand Western civilization without reading and writing Ancient Greek. So why not follow in the footsteps of the children of Rome and get a tutor of Ancient Greek?

Compared to the Romans, I guess the Greeks did show up pretty well. They had some kind of civilization, at least.

Why is it impossible to understand Western civilization without reading and writing Ancient Greek?

 

[Mole]

Compared to the Romans, I guess the Greeks did show up pretty well. They had some kind of civilization, at least.

Why is it impossible to understand Western civilization without reading and writing Ancient Greek?

Western civilization is based on Ancient Greek philosophy, Judaism, Christianity and the Enlightenment.

So to read and write Ancient Greek takes us to the origins of Western philosophy.

And to read and write Ancient Greek takes us to the origins of Christianity as the New Testament is written in Ancient Greek.

And to read and write Ancient Greek takes us to the origins of the Renaissance and then on to the Enlightenment.

And to read and write Ancient Greek enables us to read the great Greek plays and texts.

And you will discover that Ancient Greek is a beautiful language that of course informs English.

But don't study Ancient Greek for advantage, study Ancient Greek for its own sake, and you will find yourself at home three thousand years ago.

And become an Ancient Greek and find yourself at home in the modern world.

Many of us are deracinated in the modern world, we find ourselves homeless, not knowing where we came from, and so not know where we are going. So reading and writing Ancient Greek orientates us to our modern world and to our Western Civilization.

 

[Nara]

That's even worse, because it means they were racists as well as slave masters. They were a bunch of hypocrites who contributed nothing to the world by sitting around trying to sound intelligent.

In reality, they accomplished nothing. Probably hundreds of ancient cultures did what they did, and it was just forgotten.

No, the superstitious monks who wrote all their stuff down are the ones who actually made the contributions to civilization which people like Leonardo Da Vinci who understood the real world were able to use to create technologies which later they rationalized with a bunch of Greek stuff. The Greeks are highly overrated. The Italians are the ones who started it all.

...

Wut?

I'm sorry I've no patience for anyone today but do you know how much the Italians owe to the greek culture ?

Actually the Romans were a link between ancient Greek culture and the modern western civilization. Whether it is the idea of democracy, freedom, human dignity or equality (and, oh, university), it always returns to the greek heritage.

 

[Typh0n]

...

Wut?

I'm sorry I've no patience for anyone today but do you know how much the Italians owe to the greek culture ?

Actually the Romans were a link between ancient Greek culture and the modern western civilization. Whether it is the idea of democracy, freedom, human dignity or equality (and, oh, university), it always returns to the greek heritage.

While you are right in saying that the Romans borrowed alot from the Greeks, contemporary notions of democracy based on social contract, freedom, equality and human dignity stem from enlightenment thinking and not the ancient Greeks.

 

[BlackDog]

Many of us are deracinated in the modern world, we find ourselves homeless, not knowing where we came from, and so not know where we are going. So reading and writing Ancient Greek orientates us to our modern world and to our Western Civilization.

Okay. I agree especially with the last bit. But explain to me why it is better to study a dead language from our past, instead of spending my time studying the currently-spoken language of my ancestors in Europe. I can just read the Greek texts in translation. I've already done so with Plato.

 

[Nara]

While you are right in saying that the Romans borrowed alot from the Greeks, contemporary notions of democracy based on social contract, freedom, equality and human dignity stem from enlightenment thinking and not the ancient Greeks.

Yes and no, most of these notions were rooted in the greek culture, if we track their genealogy. As you know enlightenment thinkers haven't generated cultural values ex nihilo.
For instance the idea of human dignity came with Cicero (so way before the 18th...), but he probably wouldn't have formulated it if he hadn't been skilled in Greek philosophy/philology (and known as a great translator).

 

[BlackDog]

...

Wut?

I'm sorry I've no patience for anyone today but do you know how much the Italians owe to the greek culture ?

Actually the Romans were a link between ancient Greek culture and the modern western civilization. Whether it is the idea of democracy, freedom, human dignity or equality (and, oh, university), it always returns to the greek heritage.

I was trying out my trolling skills.

I have studied the Romans in great detail, reading most of the original sources available and dozens of scholarly works. I have studied the Ancient Greeks very little except in the Roman context, though. I don't much like them because they seem perverted, to be honest. Just a really sick culture. The Romans do a lot of bad stuff, too, but it's more understandable, somehow. And the Romans beat the Greeks because their cultural developments only led to their military decline.

But I admittedly don't think much of the Greeks. Praising the Greeks for Hellenizing the ancient world is like praising the Europeans for colonizing the modern world. Sure, they did it, but they didn't do it for altruistic motives. And then they went soft and lost it all. If you're going to conquer the world, then do it thoroughly!

 

[Mole]

Yes and no, most of these notions were rooted in the greek culture, if we track their genealogy. As you know enlightenment thinkers haven't generated cultural values ex nihilo.
For instance the idea of human dignity came with Cicero (so way before the 18th...), but he probably wouldn't have formulated it if he hadn't been skilled in Greek philosophy/philology (and known as a great translator).

I am impressed by you but so far I haven't been able to engage with you. All I know is that you are extroverted and probably not OE. But so far I have not been abe to figure out whether you are impressive or just trying to impress us.

I hestitate to ask anything from you as you seen hesitant to reply. But I would be grateful if you would reveal yourself.

Perhaps this is not possible and you will continue to leave us wondering.

 

[Mole]

Okay. I agree especially with the last bit. But explain to me why it is better to study a dead language from our past, instead of spending my time studying the currently-spoken language of my ancestors in Europe. I can just read the Greek texts in translation. I've already done so with Plato.

If you read and write Ancient Greek, you will have the mind of an Ancient Greek. This will give you a unique perspective on moderen Europe. And who knows what you may make of Oz.

 

[BlackDog]

If you read and write Ancient Greek, you will have the mind of an Ancient Greek. This will give you a unique perspective on moderen Europe. And who knows what you may make of Oz.

English is a terrible language. It is very unexpressive compared to Spanish and presumably Latin also. How does Ancient Greek stack up next to Spanish?

 

[Mole]

English is a terrible language. It is very unexpressive compared to Spanish and presumably Latin also. How does Ancient Greek stack up next to Spanish?

I think the real reason you would learn to read and write Ancient Greek is to change yourself.

But unless you have an appetite to change yourself, it is better to remain as you are.

Changing yourself is a step into the unknown and is dangerous. So unless you have the appetite it is better not to take a bite. Look what happened to Adam in the Garden of Eden.

 

[Nara]

I am impressed by you but so far I haven't been able to engage with you. All I know is that you are extroverted and probably not OE. But so far I have not been abe to figure out whether you are impressive or just trying to impress us.

I hestitate to ask anything from you as you seen hesitant to reply. But I would be grateful if you would reveal yourself.

Perhaps this is not possible and you will continue to leave us wondering.

No, if I'm little quiet on it, it's because I don't see the point (of discussing my OE) (by the way I got tired of this kind of "mensans" (and others gifted groups) shit, masturbating their brains about how-special-I-am-and-not-able-to-fit, how-I-was-lazy-at-school-but-had-a-so-brilliant(-and-still-unused)-potential blablabla instead of contributing significantly to improve society, CQFD).

And if I seemed to be hesitating, it's just that, in the meantine, I forgot to answer (and you're not the only victim of my negligence lol)

I didn't want to prove anything and don't take it personnally but:

1) When I'm discussing ideas, I don't necessarily want them to be brought down to a personal level

2) If I were an old man, I probably wouldn't sound "impressive" nor be suspected to try to impress someone => ask yourself why, not me

3) And most important, I'm european so I know what are the issues of this debate and why we've let Greece sink in the name of financial speculation (WTF ?!) and Europe has no future: there are so many people who are brain-washed, unaware of the importance of their common past and historical origins because of the social engineering which wants us to be rootless, politically disengaged, nihilists, apathetic consumers and exploitable workers, only living for instant gratification and our own little egotistical outlook...

4) I would also like to add that, in that perspective, most of those on thriving mode aren't like the ancient greeks or others leisure classes: they're no longer interested by inner quest or intellectual interests nor involved in civic life, but are spending their entire life on entertainments and consumption.
THAT is the essential difference.