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Consequences of Perpetual Adolescence?

PeaceBaby

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This is a concept that's been forming in my mind for a while, but I couldn't find words to explain the feelings I've been having.

Tonight it came to me as I was looking through Facebook updates. I was noting the posts of a younger work acquaintance, someone I worked with about 5 years ago. She was posting pics of her cat in the bathtub, her dog looking at her quizzically, her first pumpkin for Hallowe'en (one of many she carved) and the smiley-face cookies she recently made, decorated with pink and blue icing. Her touch-frisbee-team just won their league. It then dawned on me that this woman is 30 years old.

30.

It was at that moment that the phrase above came to my mind - it was like I was looking at someone in a state of perpetual adolescence. Not really a child, but imo not really grown-up.

So I googled the phrase, and naturally, it's not a new idea. But I got some interesting reads from looking around. Here's a link with some interesting thoughts ...

The greatest sins, Santayana thought, are those that set out to strangle human nature. This is of course what is being done in cultivating perpetual adolescence, while putting off maturity for as long as possible. Maturity provides a more articulated sense of the ebb and flow, the ups and downs, of life, a more subtly reticulated graph of human possibility. Above all, it values a clear and fit conception of reality. Maturity is ever cognizant that the clock is running, life is finite, and among the greatest mistakes is to believe otherwise. Maturity doesn't exclude playfulness or high humor. Far from it. The mature understand that the bitterest joke of all is that the quickest way to grow old lies in the hopeless attempt to stay forever young.
~http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-215_162-605169.html

The questions this article poses are:

And yet what is so wrong about any of this? If one wants to dress like a kid, spin around the office on a scooter, not make up one's mind about what work one wants to do until one is 40, be noncommittal in one's relationships -- what, really, are the consequences? I happen to think that the consequences are genuine, and fairly serious.

What do you think the consequences are? Do you think there are any?

Thoughts are welcome - I'm looking to learn more about everyone's perspectives.

eta: I should add too - do you even think this is a "thing"?
 

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I'll start with the obvious: maturity means different things for different people. It's quite possible to be simultaneously youthful yet wise, open-minded and discerning; I frequently get that sort of feedback from the people in my life. My 50-year-old hairdresser talks to me as candidly as she would one of her peers, often commenting on how she sometimes forgets my age. At the same time, my coworkers thought I was about four years younger than I actually am, supposedly owing to a combination of outward appearance and, well...my personality.

For what it's worth, I'm 25. I recall going out for drinks with my coworkers some Sunday night last November, after Thanksgiving. One of them turned to me and asked, "So, you just turned 21, right?" Nope. Just on the inside.

I'm mature, and not mature at all. I party downtown a lot, enjoy spending as much as I do earning, and have zero interest in settling down or starting a family. But I've also been through a lot in my life, learned a great deal from those experiences, and do my best to navigate contemporary problems with a certain finesse and skill that I'm certain I would not have developed otherwise - a form of maturity that I don't often see in others my own age.
[MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] - Maturity is somewhat subjective. While I kinda see what you're getting at with this girl on Facebook, the article you found seems a little harsh. "A clear and fit conception of reality" - what is that, exactly? Most of us probably think we have it, but my perspectives are going to be vastly different from the guy sitting next to me, and I know that. If I'm afraid of dating and this guy thinks it's the only way to go, whose conception of reality is "clear and fit," if either of them? Furthermore, what does dressing young and being noncommittal in one's relationships have to do with this apparently objective "clear and fit" outlook on life? I'm only questioning the opinionated tone of the article you found - not trying to argue with you!

And then we have this:
Maturity is ever cognizant that the clock is running, life is finite, and among the greatest mistakes is to believe otherwise... The mature understand that the bitterest joke of all is that the quickest way to grow old lies in the hopeless attempt to stay forever young.

What if is this is a natural inclination in one's personality? I could see how actively trying to "stay young" in order to maintain some delusional notion of popularity or connection to a nostalgic era in one's life could be a problem - that makes sense. Denial isn't pretty.

But suppose you're just being yourself, wearing what you want and advancing through life at whatever pace you've decided is right for you. I do it, and I'm pretty happy. The only drawback I've encountered so far is real or imagined condescension from family members who've decided that I should get engaged and pregnant. When I wrinkle my nose and say, "Ew, gross!" I'm probably being immature, but I'm also being myself. I have never wanted children, and I don't foresee a change anytime soon. When I'm ninety - if I make it that far - I'll probably still dye my hair raspberry red. Because I don't care what anybody says - that shit is thoroughly awesome.

I get really sad when I see people giving up and letting go of their inner children, and there's something to be said for those who feel real joy from the little things in life. Even if such little things are winning games in their recreational sports leagues and putting blue frosting on their cookies.

I have a lot of adult friends who are athletes, artists, and musicians, and they're among my very favorite people to hang out with. They still share my vitality and enthusiasm, and spending time with them is very life-affirming.

There's an interior design fad I've noticed a lot lately - tons of cute little suburban homes have the words, "Live, Laugh, Love" painted on the living room wall, like the residents of these houses actually need to be reminded to do that. Back when Facebook had quotes below profile pictures, "Live each day like it's your last!" and "Carpe diem" were mantras I saw frequently. However, I don't think people walk the walk as much as they'd like to imagine they do. When I booked a last-minute flight back to Chicago for the Cup this summer (and decided to stay in a downtown tower on top of that), I was met with more than a few raised eyebrows. Questions like, "How much are you spending?!" were pretty common. I never answered them, and was kind of baffled that anybody wouldn't seize an opportunity like that (as long as they had the means to).

What do you think the consequences are? Do you think there are any?

I get that problems can arise for someone if (s)he can't choose or find an occupation that makes him/her happy. A good career is quite fulfilling. If someone can't decide or accept a position for any length of time, lack of productivity and income can cause depression and dependencies on other people. Nonetheless, such deep-rooted dissatisfaction seems like it would have other causes - probably a bit more than absence of maturity alone.

As far as being noncommittal in one's relationships goes? In my opinion, the pressure to commit seems to be largely societal and should really only concern the individuals involved. Provided that all parties are up front and honest about their expectations...well, no harm, no foul. Date around when you're forty if you want to.

TL;DR - Do whatever makes you happy, as long as you're not hurting anybody. The article quoted sounds more applicable to midlife crises, not inherent personality traits or amorphous states of maturity.
 

gromit

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This is a concept that's been forming in my mind for a while, but I couldn't find words to explain the feelings I've been having.

Tonight it came to me as I was looking through Facebook updates. I was noting the posts of a younger work acquaintance, someone I worked with about 5 years ago. She was posting pics of her cat in the bathtub, her dog looking at her quizzically, her first pumpkin for Hallowe'en (one of many she carved) and the smiley-face cookies she recently made, decorated with pink and blue icing. Her touch-frisbee-team just won their league. It then dawned on me that this woman is 30 years old.

30.

It was at that moment that the phrase above came to my mind - it was like I was looking at someone in a state of perpetual adolescence. Not really a child, but imo not really grown-up.

Those things that you mention do not necessarily equate to a lack of maturity. The individual could simply have some frivolous hobbies. I would say actively avoiding taking control of ones life and putting off difficult decisions can be a problem, but that isn't really related in any way to decorating cookies or taking photos of a cute pup.

Unless you are saying it is because she isn't married/a parent...?
 

gromit

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It's kinda arrogant to dismiss other people's life choices when you don't even really know their story.
 

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Hm... I sort of see my artsy side in your coworker... I love those sorts of silly artistic things and pick-up sports... but maybe there are more harmful elements to her behavior that aren't being conveyed here.

I want to define maturity though... not as moving quickly through life... but in terms of its psychological definition of "the ability to respond to the environment in an appropriate manner". It includes both fluid awareness and crystallized knowledge.

I don't think there's a problem with a lack of maturity insofar as just being immature, but I do think issues arise when a person who is not mature enough tries to take on a role that requires a higher degree of maturity. I think of my friend who was kicked out of the house after she got pregnant at 17 and now is a full-time working mom but still often acts like a child... my coworker who doesn't have any desire to work but got her job via her mom, and slacks off and makes even more work for our department... my friend who, married for several years and with a 1.5-year-old daughter, decided to separate with her husband on the grounds that she resents him wanting her to stay at home with him and the baby at night instead of going out and partying with her single male friends.

What happens in these situations is the maturity mismatch both prevents the person from being able to succeed and hurts others in its wake.

As for the article... it seems to me like yet another complaint from a person of an older generation pointing a finger at younger people who, forgive the colloquialism, but, "play too much". I do think adolescence has been extended, but I see it as more of a result of the economic shifts from prosperity in the 80s to the recession now as the children born and raised in prosperity, expecting exciting careers and a wide open future, are entering the workforce and discovering a lack of jobs and a lot more obstacles to get to the picture of success that was painted for them in their childhoods. The result is passivity, because it's hard to be fired up when you feel like something promised to you has been taken away.
 

danseen

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I think the OP should mind her business and not be an uptight busy body.

It's common knowledge that maturity is subjective.
 

PeaceBaby

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Thanks for your thoughts AC!

I'll start with the obvious: maturity means different things for different people.

Agreed. What are the commonalities though of maturity - are there any anymore? Is it about a level of commitment? Or non-commitment? Or commitment to self?

While I kinda see what you're getting at with this girl on Facebook, the article you found seems a little harsh.

Agreed. It doesn't represent my opinion per se. But it says things in a polarized way that induces further thought. That's what I want to explore, flesh things out more.

But suppose you're just being yourself, wearing what you want and advancing through life at whatever pace you've decided is right for you. ... When I'm ninety - if I make it that far - I'll probably still dye my hair raspberry red. Because I don't care what anybody says - that shit is thoroughly awesome.

You do recognize though that the reason you think it is awesome is because of your cultural context? The cultural significance we currently place on the expression and manifestation of individualism? Just like if/when I make it to 90 there will be a lot of people listening to 80's music, if/when you make it to 90, there will be I guess a whole bunch of geriatric people with raspberry red hair.

Everything becomes an anachronism at some point. :)

I get really sad when I see people giving up and letting go of their inner children, and there's something to be said for those who feel real joy from the little things in life. Even if such little things are winning games in their recreational sports leagues and putting blue frosting on their cookies.

I find this fascinating. What does it look like when someone lets go of their inner child? Do they stop making cookies? Are those the things we are supposed to be doing to nurture that inner child? Why those things?

Thanks for helping me explore more!
 

PeaceBaby

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Those things that you mention do not necessarily equate to a lack of maturity. The individual could simply have some frivolous hobbies. I would say actively avoiding taking control of ones life and putting off difficult decisions can be a problem, but that isn't really related in any way to decorating cookies or taking photos of a cute pup.

Unless you are saying it is because she isn't married/a parent...?

Agreed. I have silly hobbies too, and post pics of that stuff. For this girl, it's about more than that, and in a way I cannot fully explain, and that's what I'm trying to wrap some context around. What is it about this person that provokes those thoughts? And does it define wider trends? And what implications surround those trends?

And is it about kids ... no, not specifically.

Although it was interesting this weekend to get together with friends and family for our 25th wedding anniversary, and there's a couple who, like us, celebrated their 25th this year too. They don't have kids and that was a conscious choice on their part (a choice I respect, btw.) We are different in many ways though and I am sure that having kids does define some of that. There is something that does change your outlook ... I'll have to give that more thought.

It's kinda arrogant to dismiss other people's life choices when you don't even really know their story.

Agreed. I'm not judging the life choices (personally, I like smiley-face cookies) ... there's something about the aggregation over time that gets my attention. That's what I want to explore.

Hm... I sort of see my artsy side in your coworker... I love those sorts of silly artistic things and pick-up sports... but maybe there are more harmful elements to her behavior that aren't being conveyed here.

Well, yes, for brevity I'm not fleshing this out with specifics, but did put in the posts that caused a thought to gel on being "grown-up" and what it means to be "grown-up".

A little more googling on my end has found the phrase "extended adolescence" is a more common way of describing this as a phenomenon.

I do think issues arise when a person who is not mature enough tries to take on a role that requires a higher degree of maturity. **examples**

What happens in these situations is the maturity mismatch both prevents the person from being able to succeed and hurts others in its wake.

Agreed. Good examples.

As for the article... it seems to me like yet another complaint from a person of an older generation pointing a finger at younger people who, forgive the colloquialism, but, "play too much". I do think adolescence has been extended, but I see it as more of a result of the economic shifts from prosperity in the 80s to the recession now as the children born and raised in prosperity, expecting exciting careers and a wide open future, are entering the workforce and discovering a lack of jobs and a lot more obstacles to get to the picture of success that was painted for them in their childhoods. The result is passivity, because it's hard to be fired up when you feel like something promised to you has been taken away.

Yes, I agree with that too. The person writing it is probably 20 years older than me, and the age gap is recognizable. My generation, too, bought into that paradigm btw. It's difficult when you see things are not the same for you as for your parents, and I see my own kids facing unique challenges of their generation now too.

I think the OP should mind her business and not be an uptight busy body.

It's common knowledge that maturity is subjective.

Aww, you're cute. Of course maturity is subjective. Let's explore the concept of extended adolescence - what can you add to the discussion here? Do you even think there's such a thing?
 

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Hmm, doing some more quick googling ... the concept of "emerging adulthood" vs "extended adolescence" ... will digest some of that and be back. In the meantime, do share your thoughts!
 
A

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I think the concept of extended adolescence is something that is ongoing at the moment. When I look at my life's benchmarks of normal life achievement compared to my parents' generation, it's just hilariously off-kilter. And even worse if I compare it to my grandparents' generation.

Me at 16 getting my first job because I wanted money to buy music.
My dad at 15 getting his first job so that he could afford to go to college.
My grandfather at 12 getting his first job so he could help his parents feed their large family in the depression.

etc.

My POV could be skewed as I am someone who likes living in the fantastical magical realm of wherever my brain is, and I tend to avoid large pockets of reality and realism if I can. But it seems like there is a lot of help in this arena for distractions in the form of endless entertainments.

I've had to admit to myself that some of my life choices have been made with the idea that I don't HAVE to choose and commit... that I can hold all the ideas and possibilities in my hands forever.

But then I talk to my frazzled stay at home mom of 2 friend and I think oh hells to the no. I like staying up until 3 am to read whatever book I want to, or play a video game, or watch an entire season of a tv show in one weekend while eating pizza and then doing it all over again the next weekend because AMGS season 2, etc.
 

digesthisickness

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Are you asking about the negative side or the positive side or both? They're two different things. One is immaturity and the other is "young at heart"?
 

gromit

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Agreed. I have silly hobbies too, and post pics of that stuff. For this girl, it's about more than that, and in a way I cannot fully explain, and that's what I'm trying to wrap some context around. What is it about this person that provokes those thoughts? And does it define wider trends? And what implications surround those trends?

And is it about kids ... no, not specifically.

Although it was interesting this weekend to get together with friends and family for our 25th wedding anniversary, and there's a couple who, like us, celebrated their 25th this year too. They don't have kids and that was a conscious choice on their part (a choice I respect, btw.) We are different in many ways though and I am sure that having kids does define some of that. There is something that does change your outlook ... I'll have to give that more thought.



Agreed. I'm not judging the life choices (personally, I like smiley-face cookies) ... there's something about the aggregation over time that gets my attention. That's what I want to explore.

Ok well I guess I can't help you define it unfortunately.

I know people who do what I described above, avoiding taking responsibility/control for their lives and circumstances and putting off hard decisions... I'd say those people prob do have some growing up to do, but it sounds like your beef with the FB friend is something else and you can't put your finger on it.

That is the first aspect of maturity, and then, once you've generally got your shit together in terms of internal stuff and also your lifestyle, for most people there is naturally an aspect of "what can I give back?" which yes can be in the form of children, but it can be in terms of career, or volunteering, or any number of things.
 

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Agreed. I have silly hobbies too, and post pics of that stuff. For this girl, it's about more than that, and in a way I cannot fully explain, and that's what I'm trying to wrap some context around. What is it about this person that provokes those thoughts? And does it define wider trends? And what implications surround those trends?

And is it about kids ... no, not specifically.

Although it was interesting this weekend to get together with friends and family for our 25th wedding anniversary, and there's a couple who, like us, celebrated their 25th this year too. They don't have kids and that was a conscious choice on their part (a choice I respect, btw.) We are different in many ways though and I am sure that having kids does define some of that. There is something that does change your outlook ... I'll have to give that more thought.



Agreed. I'm not judging the life choices (personally, I like smiley-face cookies) ... there's something about the aggregation over time that gets my attention. That's what I want to explore.



Well, yes, for brevity I'm not fleshing this out with specifics, but did put in the posts that caused a thought to gel on being "grown-up" and what it means to be "grown-up".

A little more googling on my end has found the phrase "extended adolescence" is a more common way of describing this as a phenomenon.



Agreed. Good examples.



Yes, I agree with that too. The person writing it is probably 20 years older than me, and the age gap is recognizable. My generation, too, bought into that paradigm btw. It's difficult when you see things are not the same for you as for your parents, and I see my own kids facing unique challenges of their generation now too.



Aww, you're cute. Of course maturity is subjective. Let's explore the concept of extended adolescence - what can you add to the discussion here? Do you even think there's such a thing?

No, I just think s/he can do as s/he pleases, it's a free world. your judgmental attitude in spite of that. there are no rules in life, as everybody knows. just seems you envy that person, it shows in your post.
 

digesthisickness

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God, grant me the serenity...
 

skylights

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I like that ^ article... it is neutral and exploratory...

I am in a lifespan development class right now and I'm going to grab my textbook and copy here what it has to say - [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] I think it has some good info to mull on -

Diane E. Paplia said:
Varied Paths to Adulthood

Paths to adulthood are far more varied than in the past. Before the 1960s, young people in the US typically finished school, left home, got a job, got married, and had children, in that order. By the 1990s, only 1 in 4 young adults followed that sequence.

For many young people today, emerging adulthood is a time of experimentation before assuming adult roles and responsibilities. A young man or woman may get a job and an apartment and revel in the single life. A young married couple may move in with parents while they finish school or get on their feet or after a job loss. Such traditional developmental tasks as finding stable work and developing long-term romantic relationships may be postponed until the thirties or even later. What influences affect varied paths to adulthood?

Influences on Paths to Adulthood

Individual paths to adulthood are influenced by such factors as gender, academic ability, early attitudes towards education, race and ethnicity, expectations in late adolescence, and social class. Increasingly, emerging adults of both sexes extend education and delay parenthood, and these decisions are usually keys to future success on the job as well as to current well-being. In a longitudinal study that followed a nationally representative sample of high school seniors each year since 1975, emerging adults with the highest well-being were not yet married, had no children, attended college, and lived away from their childhood home. In another study, youth who were downwardly mobile tended to leave home earlier, get less support from parents, forgo higher education, and have children earlier. Early parenthood particularly limited future prospects.

Some emerging adults have more resources - financial and developmental - than others. Much depends on ego development: a combination of ability to understand oneself and one's world, to integrate and synthesize what one perceives and knows, and to take charge of planning one's life course. Family influences are important. Young people whose ego development tended to be "stuck" at a less mature level at age 25 were more likely to have had parents who, at age 14, inhibited their autonomy, devalued them, and were more hostile in conversations. As a result of these and other influences, some emerging adults have more highly developed egos than others and are therefore more ready to learn to stand alone.

Identity Development in Early Adulthood

As we discussed [...] Erikson saw the search for identity as a lifelong task focused largely on adolescence. Emerging adulthood offers a moratorium, or time out, from developmental pressures and allows young people the freedom to experiment with various roles and lifestyles. However, it also represents a turning point during which adult role commitments gradually crystallize. In postindustrialized countries today, the active search for identity is more and more likely to extend into emerging adulthood.

Recentering

Recentering is a name for the process that underlies the shift to an adult identity. It is the primary task of emerging adulthood. Recentering is a 3-stage process in which power, responsibility, and decision-making gradually shift from the family of origin to the independent young adult. At stage 1, the beginning of emerging adulthood, the individual is still embedded in the family of origin, but expectations for self-reliance and self-directedness begin to increase. In stage 2, during emerging adulthood, the individual remains connected to (and may be financially dependent on) but no longer embedded in within the family of origin. Temporary, exploratory involvements in a variety of college courses, jobs, and intimate partners mark this stage. Toward its end, the individual is moving toward serious commitments and gaining the resources to support them. In stage 3, usually by age 30, the individual moves into young adulthood. This stage is marked by independence from the family of origin (while retaining close ties to it) and commitment to a career, a partner, and possibly children.

The Contemporary Moratorium

A fragmented, postindustrial society offers many emerging adults little guidance and less pressure to grow up. They must construct their life course out of the opportunities and constraints they find around them. Not everyone is equally up to the task. In general, there is a shift in goals related to the process of recentering. Many young people shift away from goals related to education, travel, and friends, and toward goals that are health, family, and work related.

Identity status research has found that only about a third of Western youth seem to go through [...] the moratoruium status, a self-conscious crisis that leads to a resolution. In fact, approximately 15 percent seem to regress during this time, and about half show no significant changes at all. Rather than actively and thoughtfully exploring their identity, many young adults seem to do little active, conscious deliberation, instead taking a passive (diffused) approach or taking the lead from their parents (foreclosure). Nevertheless, about 3 out of 4 settle on some sort of occupational identity by the end of their twenties. Identity confusion persists for 10 to 20 percent, who lack what Erikson called fidelity: faith in something larger than themselves.
 

danseen

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Ok well I guess I can't help you define it unfortunately.

I know people who do what I described above, avoiding taking responsibility/control for their lives and circumstances and putting off hard decisions... I'd say those people prob do have some growing up to do, but it sounds like your beef with the FB friend is something else and you can't put your finger on it.

That is the first aspect of maturity, and then, once you've generally got your shit together in terms of internal stuff and also your lifestyle, for most people there is naturally an aspect of "what can I give back?" which yes can be in the form of children, but it can be in terms of career, or volunteering, or any number of things.

Who says people need to grow up?

Isn't that just some outdated fuddy duddy morality?

I'd say adults do "grow", but then for the most part it's largely a facade or prompted by life events (,e.g. job, children, etc.)
 

gromit

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Who says people need to grow up?

Isn't that just some outdated fuddy duddy morality?

I'd say adults do "grow", but then for the most part it's largely a facade or prompted by life events (,e.g. job, children, etc.)

Well if you don't take responsibility for your choices/your life, if you're not an active participant, then you are completely at the mercy of external factors...

Of course things are gonna happen in life that we can't control, but there is a lot that's within our power, and I think that some people don't want to take on that burden.

Cause and effect, baby.
 

danseen

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Yes, life is cause and effect.

But then the world is at random, and free choice doesn't really exist.
 
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