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Can empathy be learned?

Giggly

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What I mean is, can someone who is not naturally empathetic learn how to become empathetic?

I kind of think they can learn but only if they see their own deficit and want to learn without seeking any other gains.

What do you think?
 

five sounds

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I agree. Like anything that doesn't come naturally, I think people have the power to improve their skills. Without seeing a need for change and possessing a desire to change, though, it will not happen. A learned empathetic person may not ever be as natural and skilled as a someone who is empathetic by nature, but I think that someone could become quite good with enough awareness and practice.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Absolutely it can be learned.

The only question is if it is learned consciously or subconsciously - much of it is learned by anyone, but for some it isn't an intentional learning process, but just how their family operated or something. I think there are also some instinctual aspects to it like a strong mothering/nurturing instinct makes someone more naturally aware. I am required to have empathy for some of my jobs, and so I work at it very intentionally and with significant effort. I think this has helped me progress with it.
 

Red Herring

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What I mean is, can someone who is not naturally empathetic learn how to become empathetic?

I kind of think they can learn but only if they see their own deficit and want to learn without seeking any other gains.

What do you think?

First of all we should define empathy.

If you mean cognitive empathy, i.e. knowing/understanding what the other person is experiencing: yes

This can definitely be learned by careful observation. Psychopaths train themselves to read others. People with Asperbergs can learn it, as far as I know.

If you mean affective empathy, i.e. having a (socially) appropriate emotional reaction to another person's emotions, sharing their emotions: probably not

I think the latter has a lot to do with mirror neurons. Not sure how much of a fixture their strength is, i.e. if you are born with very active mirror centers or if they develope as they are trained.
My hunch is that a good part of it is either hardwired or set at an early age.



It's funny you should mention this as I have long been wondering about the relationship not only between affective empathy and mirror neurons but also between those two and Fe/Fi
 

Qlip

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What I mean is, can someone who is not naturally empathetic learn how to become empathetic?

I kind of think they can learn but only if they see their own deficit and want to learn without seeking any other gains.

What do you think?

Giggly, I think this is the key. I don't think you can effectively practice empathy if you're trying to game it.
 

Seymour

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First of all we should define empathy.

If you mean cognitive empathy, i.e. knowing/understanding what the other person is experiencing: yes

This can definitely be learned by careful observation. Psychopaths train themselves to read others. People with Asperbergs can learn it, as far as I know.

If you mean affective empathy, i.e. having a (socially) appropriate emotional reaction to another person's emotions, sharing their emotions: probably not

While I generally agree with your brought points, I think I do disagree a bit here. I think there are people who are emotionally cut off from themselves (often losing a good deal of bodily awareness) because of emotional trauma or ongoing emotional stress. Such people are perfectly capable of being emotionally aware and practicing affective empathy, but cannot consciously access that level of emotional awareness. Such people can, I think learn affective empathy.

Plus, I think it likely that even those with a limited amount of affective empathy can learn to attend to it more and learn to see it as a valuable resource.

I think the latter has a lot to do with mirror neurons. Not sure how much of a fixture their strength is, i.e. if you are born with very active mirror centers or if they develope as they are trained.
My hunch is that a good part of it is either hardwired or set at an early age.

I suspect it's like most things... how good you are at something depends upon inherent skill, training, practice and other life experiences (external feedback, critical growth periods).


It's funny you should mention this as I have long been wondering about the relationship not only between affective empathy and mirror neurons but also between those two and Fe/Fi

And what would you say associates with what?

F7 vs T5

I think it's interesting that as for as the neocortex goes, there are two "mirror neuron" regions (using Nardi's terms):

F7 - "Imaginative Mimic" - Mirroring other's behavior, imaginatively entering into other situations and "what if" scenarios

T5 - "Sensitive Mediator" - Noticing and responding to social cues, wondering how others evaluate you, being embarrassed

I think F7 sounds kind of Ne (with a little F/Fi flavor, as far as mirroring), and T5 sounds somewhat Fe. Nardi did find that FJ was associated with T5, and Ne with F7. But the T5 association was a little more complex (see below).

Regardless, I do think it's interesting that mirror neurons are divided into who separate regions, both of which might relate to empathy in different ways.

Nardi and T5 (an aside)

T5, the region of the neocortex related to attending to social feedback and feeling ashamed/embarrassed, is used heavily by Fe types (and seems to be an obvious fit for at least some qualities we associate with Fe).

Conversely, ISTPs tended to show the least activity in T5, with some ISTPs never showing any activity in the region no matter how embarrassing the situation in the lab. INTPs generally showed low activity in T5 as well. However, when that region finally activated for INTPs in the lab, it tended to spill over into neighboring speech and movement centers (which may be one reason why most of us, regardless of type, get clumsy and tongue-tied when embarrassed).

T5 is also used by heavily by male FPs, but far less so by female FPs... but what does that mean (Nardi didn't speculate on that, that I recall)? Could it mean that male FPs tend to feel more socially constrained than female FPs (and so perhaps are less likely to be visibly quirky)? Do male FPs learn to blend socially for some reason (social pressure)?

Of course, some studies have also shown that men tend to use T5 for facial recognition, which might explain a greater use of T5 in male FPs.
 

cafe

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I don't know that it can, at least not past early to mid childhood. Or rather, a person who hasn't learned empathy by that age is unlikely to ever be motivated to learn it for its own sake. If you have a basic level of empathy, you can work to improve it. And some folks have more of a capacity for it by nature than others. More is not always better or more functional.

I think it is super important to try to teach empathy to young children and to treat them with empathy so that their capacity for it is developed. They can be emotionally crippled otherwise.
 

Evo

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What I mean is, can someone who is not naturally empathetic learn how to become empathetic?

I kind of think they can learn but only if they see their own deficit and want to learn without seeking any other gains.

What do you think?

I certainly am someone that isn't. And I certainly do now.

I was not born with the natural ability to empathize.

I have to force myself to do this.

I am only naturally empathetic with things that I have experienced

Like I'm more naturally apt to feel empathy for someone that has a fallen off a bike than someone that has tried to commit suicide.

suicide Reasons, and opinions on it, put aside....

I simply have never felt the feeling of "I want to die"

I HAVE however felt the feeling of falling off of a bike...that shit hurts.

So basically I have to work 10x as hard to put myself in that persons shoes when it comes to emotional or physical pain.

I hate it.

Emotional pain being the more difficult one...because even if I do have a down day ...my wing of 7 doesn't let me get too depressed.

-----

You are correct...it's only if the person wants to learn and can see that it's actually a flaw...not an attribute.

I only began even trying to feel empathy towards others because I realized I was a hypocrite...

I wanted others to listen to me...but I didn't listen to others very well.

That, and I always am trying to improve myself.
 

Betty Blue

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I think it's interesting that as for as the neocortex goes, there are two "mirror neuron" regions (using Nardi's terms):

F7 - "Imaginative Mimic" - Mirroring other's behavior, imaginatively entering into other situations and "what if" scenarios

T5 - "Sensitive Mediator" - Noticing and responding to social cues, wondering how others evaluate you, being embarrassed

I think F7 sounds kind of Ne (with a little F/Fi flavor, as far as mirroring), and T5 sounds somewhat Fe. Nardi did find that FJ was associated with T5, and Ne with F7. But the T5 association was a little more complex (see below).

Regardless, I do think it's interesting that mirror neurons are divided into who separate regions, both of which might relate to empathy in different ways.

Nardi and T5 (an aside)

T5, the region of the neocortex related to attending to social feedback and feeling ashamed/embarrassed, is used heavily by Fe types (and seems to be an obvious fit for at least some qualities we associate with Fe).

Conversely, ISTPs tended to show the least activity in T5, with some ISTPs never showing any activity in the region no matter how embarrassing the situation in the lab. INTPs generally showed low activity in T5 as well. However, when that region finally activated for INTPs in the lab, it tended to spill over into neighboring speech and movement centers (which may be one reason why most of us, regardless of type, get clumsy and tongue-tied when embarrassed).

T5 is also used by heavily by male FPs, but far less so by female FPs... but what does that mean (Nardi didn't speculate on that, that I recall)? Could it mean that male FPs tend to feel more socially constrained than female FPs (and so perhaps are less likely to be visibly quirky)? Do male FPs learn to blend socially for some reason (social pressure)?

Of course, some studies have also shown that men tend to use T5 for facial recognition, which might explain a greater use of T5 in male FPs.

This is super interesting, were there any more tests and or results within this study?.. If so...new thread maybe?


Edit: For this thread.... Can empathy be lost/unlearned?... I do believe it can be learned infact I think most of us do learn it, slowly as we grow... some may be inherent but it's mostly learnt imo. There is debate regarding when is the point of no return...age-wise to be taught empathy if the individual has been deprived/neglected in ways
 

Seymour

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This is super interesting, were there any more tests and or results within this study?.. If so...new thread maybe?


Edit: For this thread.... Can empathy be lost/unlearned?... I do believe it can be learned infact I think most of us do learn it, slowly as we grow... some may be inherent but it's mostly learnt imo. There is debate regarding when is the point of no return...age-wise to be taught empathy if the individual has been deprived/neglected in ways

There's a whole thread here: Dario Nardi's Neuroscience of Personality. There's also a NeuroPQ tes which tries to get at strengths related to brain regions, but it's pretty subjective.

As far as learning empathy: I wouldn't be surprised if there were critical development periods of some kind, but it does seem like aspects can be learned later in life by many.

This thread does remind me of an amusing story told by a coworker of attending a management session empathy. Most of other managers attending were hard-driving sales managers, and my coworker got to experience them trying to fumble their way through exercises on responding empathetically to their direct reports. They were utterly flummoxed by most of the exercises, and could not figure out how my coworker could figure out the "right" responses.

[MENTION=14015]Inari Love[/MENTION], that sounds like a fair amount of 7-ish self-awareness. Often 7s have no conscious idea that they have difficulty being empathetic about (or experiencing their own) emotional pain. I salute you making efforts in that direction. Experiencing the negative tends to feel overwhelming for 7s.
 

Evo

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There's a whole thread here: Dario Nardi's Neuroscience of Personality. There's also a NeuroPQ tes which tries to get at strengths related to brain regions, but it's pretty subjective.

As far as learning empathy: I wouldn't be surprised if there were critical development periods of some kind, but it does seem like aspects can be learned later in life by many.

[MENTION=14015]Inari Love[/MENTION], that sounds like a fair amount of 7-ish self-awareness. Often 7s have no conscious idea that they have difficulty being empathetic about (or experiencing their own) emotional pain. I salute you making efforts in that direction. Experiencing the negative tends to feel overwhelming for 7s.

Yea I agree it's very 7 ish.

Almost everyday I am looking through the 6 and 7 descriptions to try an tell which one's my dominant.

I still believe it's 6...

However my 7 tendencies are VERY strong.

I think it's the difference between having a thinking function first vs having a feeling function first.

Te has a take no prisoners attitude...I think enhances the 7.

I have to reign in my Te a lot, especially at work.

I have to remind myself that not everyone holds a strong value in efficiency.

And in efficiency there's no room for emotions getting in the way of the end result.

In other words...I've come a loooooong way ha ha.

I'm going to take a gander at those threads ;)
 

Lark

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I think people can learn anything with the right motivation, although I think that for some people they could be learning a sembalence or performance of empathy and it will not ever be a natural inclination or outward reflection of an inward drive. It could a kind of coping strategy or habituation, in the same way that individuals who have other personality or physical traits that they learn to cope with, for instance covering up if they cant read to a certain standard.

In most people, who are not part of the small population of sociopaths or psychopaths in the species, I believe that there are innate drives to relating, sociability, love and connectedness but when these are blocked, for different reasons, they translate into cruelty, controlling behaviour, sadomasochism, all sorts of ill shit.

The problem in these instances isnt always a lack of empathy, or unlearned empathy, but blocked empathy, which has become perverted and transformed into said ill shit. Instead of learnig something they need to get unblocked some how.
 

thoughtlost

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Hm, I am definitely not the most empathetic person out there. I noticed I was like this when I was four. My mom's mom died when I was that age and I could not understand why she was crying. I remember laughing because it felt so strange. I still have a tough time with things like that.

So I don't "merge" with another person to understand their perspective, but I do have the tendency to see things from my own perspective. So say I watch the news and I hear the someone got kidnapped. I won't necessarily care until I see it from a perspective that matters to me. Just earlier today I learned of a kidnapping although I didn't feel bad for her or anything like that, I was more worried how something like that would affect me and THEN I felt sad that there is so much evil in the world (it sucks that there are so many factors that could strip a person of their ability to transcend their experiences).

...Is ...is this a bad thing?? lol
 
I

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Since empathy is coded into the human brain, all humans have the capability to be so, with the exception of those with conditions that would genuinely inhibit it, as what has already been mentioned. Empathy therefore cannot be learned as such, as it is already there, but rather, connected with.
 

Mole

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What I mean is, can someone who is not naturally empathetic learn how to become empathetic?

I kind of think they can learn but only if they see their own deficit and want to learn without seeking any other gains.

What do you think?

Sympathy comes naturally and doesn't have to be learnt. Mothers sympathise with their babies and their babies sympathise with their mothers and so the sympathetic bond is formed.

On the other hand, empathy, meaning knowing what another is feeling but not feeling it oneself, is not natural and must be learnt.

Unfortunately in popular culture the words 'sympathy' and 'empathy' are confused. This is a shame because it prevents many from realising they need to be taught empathy in the same way they needed to be taught to read and write.

This is a double tragedy because empathy is uniquely helpful.
 

Bamboo

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What I mean is, can someone who is not naturally empathetic learn how to become empathetic?

I kind of think they can learn but only if they see their own deficit and want to learn without seeking any other gains.

What do you think?

(emphasis altered - mine)

Giggly, I think this is the key. I don't think you can effectively practice empathy if you're trying to game it.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

On some level I'd agree that if your concept of learning empathy is "tricking people into thinking you're listening to them" or something like that you're not going to really learn empathy.

But otherwise, I disagree.

Let's say you want to be a great soccer player. You can practice and drill on fundamentals and get really good. Let's say you want to go pro. You also want to be a famous footballer and have the big contract and the clothing endorsements and everything else. If you JUST want the fame you're probably not going to be so great at focusing on getting good at the sport. But if you have that additional motivation - I don't see why that's a bad thing. That's just more motivation to focus and get good.

In the same way, I think you can learn empathy in order to better understand people and at the same time realize it will provide you with huge benefits in life, business, personal, sexual, all of that.



Otherwise, like most other things you have to work on, you'll only get good if you want to learn. I agree with that. You can probably learn some through osmosis, but only so much.
 

Qlip

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Sympathy comes naturally and doesn't have to be learnt. Mothers sympathise with their babies and their babies sympathise with their mothers and so the sympathetic bond is formed.

On the other hand, empathy, meaning knowing what another is feeling but not feeling it oneself, is not natural and must be learnt.

Unfortunately in popular culture the words 'sympathy' and 'empathy' are confused. This is a shame because it prevents many from realising they need to be taught empathy in the same way they needed to be taught to read and write.

This is a double tragedy because empathy is uniquely helpful.

You have the definitions mixed up.
 

Mole

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In the same way, I think you can learn empathy in order to better understand people and at the same time realize it will provide you with huge benefits in life, business, personal, sexual, all of that.

The only place I know where empathy is taught is in high quality training for the helping professions.

To think we can teach ourselves empathy is like thinking we can teach ourselves to read and write.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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The only place I know where empathy is taught is in high quality training for the helping professions.

To think we can teach ourselves empathy is like thinking we can teach ourselves to read and write.
Some people do teach themselves to read and write. There are children to figure out how who read by the age of three or five even with minimal or no help. I've seen people self-teach almost any skill and knowledge. In general the self-teaching process may not be as efficient as having a trained guide and teacher, but for certain minds and personalities it can even be more efficient than with the wrong mentor. You see this process more with people at either end of the norm. The gifted/genius child self teaches the majority of concepts and teachers just guide in places. I even have developmentally delayed autistic students who have taught themselves how to transpose chord progressions to any key.
 
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