• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

lifehacker: How Introverts and Extroverts Can Peacefully Coexist

G

garbage

Guest
lifehacker: How Introverts and Extroverts Can Peacefully Coexist

[...]

Put another way: well-rested introverts can (theoretically) handle large, intense social situations just fine if they've had time to recharge. Similarly, if an extrovert has had plenty of time to be around people and find that stimulation they crave, staying home alone isn't going to feel as crippling as if you ask them to do so on Friday night after they've been cooped up in an office all week.

It's also helpful to think of introversion and extroversion as being somewhat similar to being right or left handed. Most of us will be one or the other, but writing with your right hand doesn't render your left hand inert. Similarly, an extroverted person can still do things that aren't typically associated with extroversion. Meanwhile, introverts can learn to adapt to more extroverted scenarios, even if it might not come as naturally.

[...]

Nothing we don't already know or think about, but, hey, there are some interesting comments:
Eventually this just becomes a basic "learn when to say no" thing. (Funny how a lot of introvert/extrovert problems just become regular problems, huh?)
Ever since I was told in the comments section of a "Introvert & Extroverts ARE DIFFERENT AHHHHHH!" article that I was a terrible person who would "die happy and oblivious" because I personally, as an extrovert, didn't relate to the introvert's approach to life, I have been equally terrified and excited by such articles...
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
You know, I got to thinking something about this when I had a conversation with a friend about how blunt and honest Germans tend to be in comparison to other cultures.. and I thought, "If blunt honesty were more the norm instead of perceived as potentially rude in social situations, would we be more understanding of this particular tug-of-war issue between E's and I's?"
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
The realization of balance and rejection of categorical thinking is the way to wisdom :)

 

roman67

New member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
146
There are very fare chances to coexist Introverts and Extroverts, It is possible!
 

Redbone

Orisha
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,882
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
You know, I got to thinking something about this when I had a conversation with a friend about how blunt and honest Germans tend to be in comparison to other cultures.. and I thought, "If blunt honesty were more the norm instead of perceived as potentially rude in social situations, would we be more understanding of this particular tug-of-war issue between E's and I's?"

Probably not. I'm an introvert who is honest and blunt. Or maybe I'm really an Ne-dom...:ninja:

I always thought it was funny how some extroverts were just super-energy draining to me. Just being in the same room would tire me out really fast. But I know introverts that can do that, too when they're switched "on".
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
Probably not. I'm an introvert who is honest and blunt. Or maybe I'm really an Ne-dom...:ninja:

I always thought it was funny how some extroverts were just super-energy draining to me. Just being in the same room would tire me out really fast. But I know introverts that can do that, too when they're switched "on".

Similarly, it is immensely draining to hang out with more intense introverts. I'm all for boring, chill times.. but dealing with true and raw introversion? It makes me feel like the candles just got blown out by a creepy gust of wind. And the shutters are creaking upstairs. And it reminds me of that time Spartacus was a real jerk to Mira for no reason. Oh, and I'm fat and probably lazy. I also didn't do my laundry so I probably won't have any socks tomorrow. And no one cares about what I have to say. :laugh:
 

Redbone

Orisha
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,882
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Similarly, it is immensely draining to hang out with more intense introverts. I'm all for boring, chill times.. but dealing with true and raw introversion? It makes me feel like the candles just got blown out by a creepy gust of wind. And the shutters are creaking upstairs. And it reminds me of that time Spartacus was a real jerk to Mira for no reason. Oh, and I'm fat and probably lazy. I also didn't do my laundry so I probably won't have any socks tomorrow. And no one cares about what I have to say. :laugh:

haha...I loved this! :D

a balance is nice. I don't like being with very strong introverts. I can really "blah, blah, blah" when I'm excited and into things and you need to be able to hold your own when I get into that mode. And it's all over the place, too. So it can get boring for me if the conversation doesn't resemble a fast-paced racquetball game. It's not always like this though.

I wonder at people's ability to gauge their introversion/extroversion. Or that of others. I thought my ex was extroverted because he "likes people". Turns out he's an an introvert (ISFJ). My sister types herself as an INTJ...no way. Poster-child Te-dom but she typed herself as an introvert because she doesn't like people. It's probably another reason why MBTI can't really fit people in neat boxes. The way tests are put together, it gets measured on a scale of like/dislike, gain energy/lose energy from socializing and that's not a complete picture at all.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
haha...I loved this! :D

a balance is nice. I don't like being with very strong introverts. I can really "blah, blah, blah" when I'm excited and into things and you need to be able to hold your own when I get into that mode. And it's all over the place, too. So it can get boring for me if the conversation doesn't resemble a fast-paced racquetball game. It's not always like this though.

I wonder at people's ability to gauge their introversion/extroversion. Or that of others. I thought my ex was extroverted because he "likes people". Turns out he's an an introvert (ISFJ). My sister types herself as an INTJ...no way. Poster-child Te-dom but she typed herself as an introvert because she doesn't like people. It's probably another reason why MBTI can't really fit people in neat boxes. The way tests are put together, it gets measured on a scale of like/dislike, gain energy/lose energy from socializing and that's not a complete picture at all.

I think Vagrant, Black cat, and Magic have all posted some really awesome and interesting threads on here about how to weed out these stereotypical concepts. There is no way to create a quiz that determines the complexities of E and I.. More less S and N and the others. Even T vs F is a fairly hard thing to determine in others. It requires careful, active analysis, and even then there is a margin for error. I think that's why the stereotypes exist. They are much more convenient. "Energy from socializing" is only half the picture.. It is a chunk of it, but not the entirety. It's an indicator, like a piece of evidence vs the entire crime scene. But.. I'd say since Energy from socializing is more like the fingerprint on the gun, it's really easy to jump to the conclusion based on that, regardless of that wayward hair under the desk.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
I think Vagrant, Black cat, and Magic have all posted some really awesome and interesting threads on here about how to weed out these stereotypical concepts. There is no way to create a quiz that determines the complexities of E and I.. More less S and N and the others. Even T vs F is a fairly hard thing to determine in others. It requires careful, active analysis, and even then there is a margin for error. I think that's why the stereotypes exist. They are much more convenient. "Energy from socializing" is only half the picture.. It is a chunk of it, but not the entirety. It's an indicator, like a piece of evidence vs the entire crime scene. But.. I'd say since Energy from socializing is more like the fingerprint on the gun, it's really easy to jump to the conclusion based on that, regardless of that wayward hair under the desk.

I was reading a very good philosophy book today called Happiness is Overrated which did not explicitly mention introversion vs. extroversion but did mention a study about happiness being contingent upon either strong belief/experience of control over your fate, which was correlated with introspection, creativity and artistry, and sociability/connectedness and it found that these two things are important but if one is strong or strengthened the other is less important or has a correlated diminishing need of/for.

It sounded like what has been conceptualised as introversion and extroversion even though the words were not used.

Its not a simple thing you know because if you're going to be stereotypical about it there's plenty of introverts who occasionally engage in extrovert behaviour, perhaps its mandated by work, or extroverts who behave like introverts, I can be really bookish sometimes and people keep tell me its an introvert trait.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Its not a simple thing you know because if you're going to be stereotypical about it there's plenty of introverts who occasionally engage in extrovert behaviour, perhaps its mandated by work, or extroverts who behave like introverts, I can be really bookish sometimes and people keep tell me its an introvert trait.
The function dichotomies were never meant to be all-or-nothing, any more than being right handed implies never using your left. Everyone exhibits behavior typical of the opposite preference on a regular basis, just as we routinely use our non-preferred hand for many things. If someone watches me over time, though, and in a variety of settings, my hand preference and E/I preference will become quite clear. It does take energy to socialize, but as with money, I gladly spend that energy on interactions that are worth the cost.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
The function dichotomies were never meant to be all-or-nothing, any more than being right handed implies never using your left. Everyone exhibits behavior typical of the opposite preference on a regular basis, just as we routinely use our non-preferred hand for many things. If someone watches me over time, though, and in a variety of settings, my hand preference and E/I preference will become quite clear. It does take energy to socialize, but as with money, I gladly spend that energy on interactions that are worth the cost.

I think you've got a good analogy here right up until you write about money, Freud used the money analogy when talking about socialising, that people have limited resources and they could be spent but Erich Fromm produced a good criticism of that deconstructing it as a result of Freud absorbing the prevailing ideology as fact.

The exchange and investment models of relating and social interaction dont ring entirely true to me, some of the things Fromm had to say about it do ring truer, he theorised about relating and positing innate drives to do so and what happened when those were blocked or redirected.
 

Aquarelle

Starcrossed Seafarer
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
3,144
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
It does take energy to socialize, but as with money, I gladly spend that energy on interactions that are worth the cost.

I think you've got a good analogy here right up until you write about money, Freud used the money analogy when talking about socialising, that people have limited resources and they could be spent but Erich Fromm produced a good criticism of that deconstructing it as a result of Freud absorbing the prevailing ideology as fact.

I don't know, the money analogy is exactly how it feels for me. Socializing "costs" a lot for me, so I only "spend" my energy on those interactions that are very important to me.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
I don't know, the money analogy is exactly how it feels for me. Socializing "costs" a lot for me, so I only "spend" my energy on those interactions that are very important to me.

Hmm, I dont really want to argue with your personal experience, because I'm not sure I can as your subjective experience is your subjective experience...

...but I would ask whether or not even socialising with those who are very important to you are "costly" or "taxing"?

I have plenty of taxing interactions too, despite being extroverted and I believe that no matter how extroverted and socially inclined anyone is there are people who are taxing company for others and maybe always will be whatever feedback they experience or suspiscions they have about themselves.

Fromm suggested that these sorts of individuals who consciously or unconsciously drain others are for different reasons more typical than they should be, again its about prevailing ideologies being absorbed, and as a result people experience relating and relationships differently than they should and analogies such as Freud's about money are more credible as a result.

It makes a lot of sense to me, although I am extroverted, even if because of the available opportunities, contexts and people it is more in theory than in fact a lot of the time.
 

Aquarelle

Starcrossed Seafarer
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
3,144
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
...but I would ask whether or not even socialising with those who are very important to you are "costly" or "taxing"?

Yes. All social interaction is costly. The only possible exception would be my mother. Maybe.

There is kind of a tier of costliness. Those closest to me (mom, dad, spouse) are least costly, and I can spend time with them without requiring too much recharge time. But even being with my spouse, who I spend the most time with, becomes taxing after awhile. For example, because of his work schedule, about one week out of a month we don't see each other much at all. By the time that week rolls around, I'm usually really looking forward to absolute alone time. And if, for some reason, I don't get that week of alone time (like we plan a vacation for that week, for example), I get very testy until my next chance for alone time comes around.

Second tier would be my 4 best girlfriends. And there's a huge gap between Tier 1 and Tier 2-- even with my best friends, once a month, for 2 hours at a time, is plenty for me. And this is doubling up-- I usually see 3 of them at one time, so to continue the money analogy, it's kind of like a buy-one-get-two-free deal. And after 2 hours I start to get antsy.

Third tier would be people I know fairly well and feel comfy around.... like the other girls in my book club, a few coworkers, some of my spouse's friends. They're pretty taxing and I only commit to social events like that rarely. Book club is every 6 weeks. I rarely attend work social events. And things with my husband's friends, I do for him more than for myself, though I do like his friends a lot and enjoy seeing them from time to time.

Anyone else falls in the 4th tier, meaning interactions are very costly, and would generally only commit to a social activity with them if there was another good reason, other than simply social interaction, to do so.

The only place the money analogy breaks down, for me, is that the most precious interactions are the least costly.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
^ That sounds really tiring just reading it.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Hmm, I dont really want to argue with your personal experience, because I'm not sure I can as your subjective experience is your subjective experience...

...but I would ask whether or not even socialising with those who are very important to you are "costly" or "taxing"?

I have plenty of taxing interactions too, despite being extroverted and I believe that no matter how extroverted and socially inclined anyone is there are people who are taxing company for others and maybe always will be whatever feedback they experience or suspiscions they have about themselves.

Fromm suggested that these sorts of individuals who consciously or unconsciously drain others are for different reasons more typical than they should be, again its about prevailing ideologies being absorbed, and as a result people experience relating and relationships differently than they should and analogies such as Freud's about money are more credible as a result.

It makes a lot of sense to me, although I am extroverted, even if because of the available opportunities, contexts and people it is more in theory than in fact a lot of the time.
I have not read Freud or Fromm on this topic. The money analogy is meant to represent how I feel about socializing, nothing more. Describing something as costly is more value neutral than you seem to assume. Attending a concert or sporting event costs money, but usually brings great enjoyment. If the concert is lousy, though, you may regret the money you spent on your ticket.

For me, it is a fact that socializing costs energy. The question then becomes whether what I get in return is worth it. An evening at home with a couple of my closest friends is well worth it. An afternoon at an acquaintance's wedding, probably not. Of course, extraverts can have unsatisfying social encounters as well, and regret the time and energy spent on them. All in all, though, they seem to have a much larger energy budget, and actually even "earn some income" from time spent with others.
 
G

garbage

Guest
Cost/benefit analysis is just one perspective of many, but it can be applied to virtually everything--including socializing. I personally make those calculations all the time with social situations.
 
Top