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It seems that society just want us to live an ISTJ life

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
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Aug 3, 2008
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It seems that in this age, modern society just want us to live an ISTJ life. Obey society's rules and don't stir up any trouble, don't express any weirld thoughts. The government want us to fix into nice little boxes.
We have been programmed that way since in school. If we don't go to school and do our homework, we get punished. The same is true when we reach adulthood, if we don't go to work and follow a routine schedule. we get fired. Anyone who tries to break out of the ISTJ lifestyle will suffer severe consequences. No wonder most Ps end up sleeping in the streets or get laid off. Most SPs went to sell drugs or join the Mafia. The middle class is full of ISTJs who is afraid to take risks and worry they will be out of money.
 

Standuble

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It seems that in this age, modern society just want us to live an ISTJ life. Obey society's rules and don't stir up any trouble, don't express any weirld thoughts. The government want us to fix into nice little boxes.
We have been programmed that way since in school. If we don't go to school and do our homework, we get punished. The same is true when we reach adulthood, if we don't go to work and follow a routine schedule. we get fired. Anyone who tries to break out of the ISTJ lifestyle will suffer severe consequences. No wonder most Ps end up sleeping in the streets or get laid off. Most SPs went to sell drugs or join the Mafia. The middle class is full of ISTJs who is afraid to take risks and worry they will be out of money.

I assume you are an STP and an STJ has just tried to steamroll you? Have you tried getting into something like Web Developing (HTML, CSS, PHP and Javascript), where there is a degree of opportunity and freelance autonomy? I work for a small company and the website developers in my department are I believe all SP and they are very good at producing artistic yet fully functioning websites. I hear plenty of tales from them where skilled freelance developers can make good money, a company just suggests their requirements which you complete in your own way and get paid. It would probably be good for SPs because the Se should identify real world opportunities and that you would have a large degree of autonomy from pesky judgers who try to mold you. It's just a suggestion where you could make a living whilst limiting interaction with these people.

You're probably smarter than they are; if they are anything like my little brother they think they are more useful and intelligent than they actually are. They only excel because the STJ numbers and drive to implement has made the world in a way that suits them best. There is a crippled component in their brain as far as their imagination is concerned so in many ways they will live lives where they must suffer and struggle along the tried and tested route when P's flexibility could just fly through with far less effort. If you are more influential, more prosperous and more capable of achieving with less effort than they need to apply to the situation then you haven't just broken out of the lifestyle but proven your way superior.
 
W

WALMART

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I believe the natural order of things dictates this so, I wouldn't place the blame on society.
 

Standuble

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I believe the natural order of things dictates this so, I wouldn't place the blame on society.

What is the natural order to things? What is the correct process? How many different ways can one perform a basic task? If the natural order of things dictates anything is that the strongest must dominate. What if the STJ with its rigid system of operation is not the strongest system? For one they aren't the best types to go with the flow when situations beyond their control suddenly change direction.
 
W

WALMART

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What is the natural order to things? What is the correct process? How many different ways can one perform a basic task? If the natural order of things dictates anything is that the strongest must dominate. What if the STJ with its rigid system of operation is not the strongest system? For one they aren't the best types to go with the flow when situations beyond their control suddenly change direction.


Yes, I agree. We are on the cusp of maximization of socialism mixed with free markets, I feel.
 

KDude

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What is the natural order to things? What is the correct process? How many different ways can one perform a basic task? If the natural order of things dictates anything is that the strongest must dominate. What if the STJ with its rigid system of operation is not the strongest system? For one they aren't the best types to go with the flow when situations beyond their control suddenly change direction.

What's strongest in the "natural order" usually isn't legal. Strength is redefined in bureaucratic terms, in this world, for better or worse. It isn't about who can or can't dominate, but who defines the rules of the game.
 

UniqueMixture

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I believe the natural order of things dictates this so, I wouldn't place the blame on society.

No, that is how organisms behave under high resource constraints. Life has many phases and cycles and during times of access to new resources (such as when a new niche is found) the "natural order" is for gene sets to expand outward radially in an exponential fashion. So for example, the way humans expanded after the development of agriculture, the Cambrian explosion, when a species finds a new niche in which it is dominant/lacks natural predators such as the kudzu vine in the south, etc
 

skylights

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It's not the government or STJs, it's just the subconscious homeostatic mechanisms that keep humans alive and reproducing. Sticking to the safe and familiar generally takes care of maintaining existance for you. Blame biology for that.
 
W

WALMART

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No, that is how organisms behave under high resource constraints. Life has many phases and cycles and during times of access to new resources (such as when a new niche is found) the "natural order" is for gene sets to expand outward radially in an exponential fashion. So for example, the way humans expanded after the development of agriculture, the Cambrian explosion, when a species finds a new niche in which it is dominant/lacks natural predators such as the kudzu vine in the south, etc


So you're saying we simply need to mass produce artificial jelly meat to absolve ourselves of the tedious existence of work and growth? I'm down.


Edit: Or would we evolve to the next plateau? :thinking:
 

UniqueMixture

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No, I think the next best step is colonization of the moon and eventually mars.
 

Il Morto Che Parla

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Obey society's rules and don't stir up any trouble, don't express any weirld thoughts. The government want us to fix into nice little boxes.

Why say ISTJ life? What does it add to this analysis?

If you meet someone who acts like that, you'll assume ISTJ,

If you meet someone who doesn't, you'll assume not ISTJ.

Therefore it's just equating surface behavior which is self-evident anyway with type, circular reasoning.

Like looking at the leaves moving in the wind, and assuming the wind blows because the leaves are moving.
 

Jaguar

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You spent years whining about ENTJs and now you're whining about ISTJs.
Type isn't the problem, it's how you think that's holding you back.
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
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Why say ISTJ life? What does it add to this analysis?

If you meet someone who acts like that, you'll assume ISTJ,

If you meet someone who doesn't, you'll assume not ISTJ.

Therefore it's just equating surface behavior which is self-evident anyway with type, circular reasoning.

Like looking at the leaves moving in the wind, and assuming the wind blows because the leaves are moving.

I think you got the message wrong. I am not generalizing everyone I don't like is an ISTJ, but based on my observations, I think that this type has the best chance to find a niche in society.

Its not about type, its the condition which society forces us into and the best type that fits this role.
I think you should come to asia to find out. Even people who are not ISTJs are forced to be ISTJs, unless there is more creative work out there. Of course there are NT companies, or P companies (such as google), but most small and medium size enterprises prize the ISTJ worker above all else. The academia (at least the college I am in) is more INTJ, but nevertheless the TJ mentality is still there.

You know, for a sociopath that is planning to take over the country, and wrecking havoc, I sure feel like things could be better.
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
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You spent years whining about ENTJs and now you're whining about ISTJs.
Type isn't the problem, it's how you think that's holding you back.

Heh. I am sorry, you are confusing whinning with pure hate. But i don't give a damn about that type's stupidity these days/
 

Standuble

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You know, for a sociopath that is planning to take over the country, and wrecking havoc, I sure feel like things could be better.

No offence mate but you aren't going to be taking over anywhere. Your best bet is to prostitute yourself to the highest bidder and then seize power via assassinating them or scrap your beliefs and adopt the TJ method you despise.
 

Il Morto Che Parla

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I think you got the message wrong. I am not generalizing everyone I don't like is an ISTJ, but based on my observations, I think that this type has the best chance to find a niche in society.

Its not about type, its the condition which society forces us into and the best type that fits this role.
I think you should come to asia to find out. Even people who are not ISTJs are forced to be ISTJs, unless there is more creative work out there. Of course there are NT companies, or P companies (such as google), but most small and medium size enterprises prize the ISTJ worker above all else. The academia (at least the college I am in) is more INTJ, but nevertheless the TJ mentality is still there.

You know, for a sociopath that is planning to take over the country, and wrecking havoc, I sure feel like things could be better.

Like I said, I think your argument would work better if you just didn't mention typology at all. It is only confusing your point with an irrelevant mis-applied theory.
 

Viridian

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We shall burn an effigy to the SJ tyranny that in no way, shape or form is a system that ever grates on their nerves or makes them unhappy.

Due to the lack of puppets, [MENTION=4883]Cimarron[/MENTION] will be our sacrifice. Since he's an SJ, I'm sure he will gladly cooperate with our ritual.
 

Cimarron

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Or at least drive you guys to madness, and corral you all onto one forum...
 

yenom

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Like I said, I think your argument would work better if you just didn't mention typology at all. It is only confusing your point with an irrelevant mis-applied theory.

Misapplied? Not to mention typology?
So what do you think society what us to be? Why don't you tell me and offer us your valuable alternative insights.

(I think you are just opposing for the sake of opposing, while contributing nothing of value in return , like playing devil's advocate for the sake of trolling, )If not please give us what alternative model of how to meet society's expectations, play society's game and win.

No offence mate but you aren't going to be taking over anywhere. Your best bet is to prostitute yourself to the highest bidder and then seize power via assassinating them or scrap your beliefs and adopt the TJ method you despise.]

Meh. I prefer my own P way. Since I studied history and know what works or not.
 

RaptorWizard

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ISTJs are the most boundlessly creative people in the Universe! Who woudn't want to follow their great ways?
 
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