• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Radio and IQ

sprinkles

Mojibake
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
2,959
MBTI Type
INFJ
[MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION]

Yes we are evolving and that is part of nature. We will kill off the smaller societies, and maybe one day ourselves entirely. I'm not even saying that we can or even should prevent that.

I'm just saying don't feel big about it.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
Yes, and yet there are ancient tribes who have maintained their solidarity and culture for thousands of years. Competition happens. Raids happen. They some times kill each other. But rarely do they break homeostasis because they integrate all aspects of living, including illness and death.

No species does this quite like the modern human - not even other humans.

Okey, then I can say the same thing about viruses Sprinkles. They live in harmony etc. They live in harmony with our immune system etc. etc.

But take the immune system out and you'd be dead in days. The fact that the two are able to live together does not change the fact that they are in a struggle for resources. mixing cooperation with competition is just, human nature. It's how we compete against the environment with heightened in-species/in-group cooperation. competition is still there however.

These people are, on average, probably not deep thinkers about the long ranging consequences of each action (and even that is just delayed self interest, with the self identifying itself with its in-group to a point and common interests etc.) their system evolved to a certain degree of stability because they wouldnt be here otherwise. but it did not set itself free of its limitations, they are like these bacteria in our bodies which have their perks and their cons.

You know what happens when you give guns to primitive societies? They shoot the hell out of each other. The world is beautiful enough as it is without needing to defend lost causes. It's not progress for the sake of progress, it's what made you and me, it's the systematical adaptation of life to its environment. Most small isolated cultures are still there because they are isolated. It is also why they havent changed much in hundreds or thousands of years, lack of competition or interest from the competition.

They are the societal equivalent of a kid taught about life by hippies in a farm somewhere and then facing the rest of the world, where people are more educated, more connected, more effective and productive as a group.

We can argue subjectivity all day, fair enough. That's why I like statistics. If smaller societies with groups the size of what humanity's brains pretty much evolved to empathize with and relate to have higher homicid rate (much, higher) on average than even the homicidal maniacs amongst the developed countries (ie: USA) where individuals are so numerous there is a thousand ways to consider people living next door as 'out of your in group' and cut them off from your empathy lifelink. it kind of says it all. doesnt it.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
[MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION]

Yes we are evolving and that is part of nature. We will kill off the smaller societies, and maybe one day ourselves entirely. I'm not even saying that we can or even should prevent that.

I'm just saying don't feel big about it.
Feel big about it? :huh:
What do you mean

It's a conversation, I do not hold any personal pride or am particularly emotionally polarized towards one or another model.

The fact that i'm an egotistical prick has nothing to do with what we're discussing but thanks for noticing :wink:
 

sprinkles

Mojibake
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
2,959
MBTI Type
INFJ
Feel big about it? :huh:
What do you mean

It's a conversation, I do not hold any personal pride or am particularly emotionally polarized towards one or another model.

The fact that i'm an egotistical prick has nothing to do with what we're discussing but thanks for noticing :wink:
I didn't mean you specifically. I mean the propensity for people in general to think that we are so awesome with all our advances.

If we lose respect for things then we truly will become a virus.

The vast majority of all species that have ever lived on this planet are extinct. Nature kind of has its own 'immune system' and if the 'virus' gets out of hand, we will be no exception.
 

Stephano

Almöhi
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
1,105
MBTI Type
NFP
You know what happens when you give guns to primitive societies? They shoot the hell out of each other.

Look at islamic countries. Say something wrong about their "god" (Mohammed), you'll get beaten up or worse.
 

sprinkles

Mojibake
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
2,959
MBTI Type
INFJ
Look at islamic countries. Say something wrong about their "god" (Mohammed), you'll get beaten up or worse.

They aren't primitive and haven't been for a long time.

Edit: also Islam and Christianity itself are relatively modern and arose from interaction of large civilizations. Let's not confuse pejoratives for things we don't like with primitive. Let's also not confuse being poor with being primitive either. Most of this crap arose from big civilizations with big cities and armies.

Primitive people are even older and are typically animists or pagans, if anything.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
I didn't mean you specifically. I mean the propensity for people in general to think that we are so awesome with all our advances.

If we lose respect for things then we truly will become a virus.

The vast majority of all species that have ever lived on this planet are extinct. Nature kind of has its own 'immune system' and if the 'virus' gets out of hand, we will be no exception.

Well, or we'll end nature (through ubiquitous control or total extinction of life on the planet). That would be a solution to that particular equation too.
Though regular massive exctinctions havent quite managed that yet, but hey, if something can do it it's humanity (or a bigger rock, or the sun going nova, or a change in the law of physics or ...)

Define respect.
I can for example respect you as a human being by not making 'extra rules' that only apply to myself in my ethical system. However that just means that if i want to fuck you over i also accept that other people (you included) have that right and that i wont complain if i lose at that game.

No I dont want to fuck you over. You can drop the knife.
 

sprinkles

Mojibake
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
2,959
MBTI Type
INFJ
Well, or we'll end nature (through ubiquitous control or total extinction of life on the planet). That would be a solution to that particular equation too.
Though regular massive exctinctions havent quite managed that yet, but hey, if something can do it it's humanity (or a bigger rock, or the sun going nova, or a change in the law of physics or ...)

Define respect.
I can for example respect you as a human being by not making 'extra rules' that only apply to myself in my ethical system. However that just means that if i want to fuck you over i also accept that other people (you included) have that right and that i wont complain if i lose at that game.

No I dont want to fuck you over. You can drop the knife.

It's pretty simple - just realize that all things have repercussions, even seemingly good things. Every cause has an effect and every effect is a cause of something else.

You're right, it's a competition for resources, but it's a competition for diminishing returns. Competing has a cost, as do all things, even down to the level of physics.

We could say that it costs you energy to compete, and the more fierce the competition is, the more energy it costs you, and there's inevitably a point of no return where it costs you more than the prize you're competing over.

It's just like being in a survival situation by yourself. You must expend energy to gather food and water, but if you don't get enough food or water with that spent energy, you never recover it, and you keep spending more energy than you take in and eventually die.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
It's pretty simple - just realize that all things have repercussions, even seemingly good things. Every cause has an effect and every effect is a cause of something else.
You do realize you're talking to a primary Ne systemic thinker, right :coffee:
Yeah I think I can wrap my head around that concept.
You're right, it's a competition for resources, but it's a competition for diminishing returns. Competing has a cost, as do all things, even down to the level of physics.
Yes, entropy is fun that way. Well then again if you think of it from one perspective its probably the reason for time itself.
And why does everything have to be about right and wrong with you.:rolleyes: *Napoleon Dynamite sigh*

That's also why you have less apex predators than prey

gotta go. phone call
 

sprinkles

Mojibake
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
2,959
MBTI Type
INFJ
You do realize you're talking to a primary Ne systemic thinker, right :coffee:
Yeah I think I can wrap my head around that concept.

Yes, entropy is fun that way. Well then again if you think of it from one perspective its probably the reason for time itself.
And why does everything have to be about right and wrong with you.:rolleyes: *Napoleon Dynamite sigh*

That's also why you have less apex predators than prey

gotta go. phone call

Not everything is about right or wrong, it's only the things that I care to talk about that are. :harhar:
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
Not everything is about right or wrong, it's only the things that I care to talk about that are. :harhar:

249449_392011434200518_936134492_n.jpg

Nihilist cat says nothing matters at the end. which is death. and sad.
But nihilist cat doesn't believe in itself, so who cares.

*kicks cat*

Or maybe I just like kicking cats

You are free to speculate.
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Au contraire! Technology gave us the printing press in 1440 leading to universal literacy in developed countries.

And literacy gave us the literal individual, and indeed the literate genius, and even notational music.

Literacy gave us a counter intuitive habit of mind leading to counter intuitive science, counter intuitive economics, counter intuitive democracy, counter intuitive abolition of institutional slavery, counter intuitive emancipation of women, and the counter intuitive prosecution of child abuse as I write.

And we can go back even further and the alphabet gave us the Roman Legions and Roman roads and acquaducts and Pax Romana for almost a thousand years.

The reality is that tribal life is short, sharp nasty and brutish.

I'm not sure I agree, or that all that is counter intuitive. I think many people make assumptions about the past, which we can't know because we weren't there. You're right, technology has allowed for an expansion of culture, art, and education; but these things were always around in forms appropriate to the lifestyle of the time. The fact is that book learning won't teach you how to build a fire or hunt; you can't really know these things until you do them. You won't know the behavior of the animals you hunt until you observe them. You won't know how to identify edible and medicinal plants until you see them, or know how they affect you until you consume them. We live in a society of dependence on technology for our basic needs. If society collapsed most of us would be helpless. This is what I mean by laziness. Sure many people can become educated and sharpen their wits that way, but we're not forced to, and so the stupid people don't die.
 
Top