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Teen Girls and Sex: “It’s like doing homework”

Z Buck McFate

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From: Teen Girls and Sex: “It’s like doing homework”

In their article ‘“It’s Like Doing Homework” Academic Achievement Discourse in Adolescent Girls’ Fellatio Narratives’, April Burns, Valerie Futch and Deborah Tolman describe how young girls use norms surrounding academic achievement when making sense of their sexual behavior.

It seems that in cultures that have a dominant discourse of academic achievement, which “… frames the primary purpose of education in terms of the achievement of high grades and standardized test scores, rather than preparation for college, employment or civic participation”, girls can incorporate such values in other aspects of their lives as well, including their sexual behavior.

The authors found that girls tend to talk about engaging in sexual behavior such as oral sex, in a manner that resembles how they talk about doing homework and test-taking at school: it’s a job that needs to get done, that they need to practice to become good at, and that they expect to be evaluated for. Performance anxieties that girls may have about taking tests at school, including fears of failing and the need to perform (as) well (as others), may have entered girls’ sexual lives.

Girls’ narratives of their own sexual pleasure, a “positive” discourse of sexuality in relationship, or consequences of sexual behavior such as STIs, pregnancy or rape, were rare. Whereas the physical sexual satisfaction seemed to be of boys alone, girls’ satisfaction was the pleasure in a job done well, and correctly.

The authors do not imply a direct causal relationship between the academic discourse and girls’ sexual behavior. They also suggest that the planning, preparation, and practice of sexual behavior may be a way to gain mastery and to understand what can easily feel out of control. However, it is an interesting thought that it may not just be sex-education itself, but also what is being taught at school about the importance of achievement, that affects young girls’ sexual lives.

Burns, A., & Futch, V.A., & Tolman, D.L. (2011). “It’s Like Doing Homework” Academic Achievement Discourse in Adolescent Girls’ Fellatio Narratives Sexuality Research and Social Policy


Here’s part of the abstract from the actual study. (I won’t post more than the abstract though- I only really ever worry about copyright infringement when a piece of writing includes an explicit request, and this one does.)

Burns and Torre (Feminism & Psychology15(1):21– 26,2005) argue that an extreme and high stakes focus on individual academic achievement in schools impoverishes young minds through the “hollowing” of their sexualities. We present evidence that such influence also works in the opposite direction, with an achievement orientation invading girls’ discourses of sexuality, “crowding out” possible narratives of pleasure, choice, and mutuality with narratives of competence and skill usually associated with achievement and schooling. We conclude with policy implications for the future development of “positive” sexuality narratives.


It doesn’t really surprise me. And I don’t know that I’d say there’s a “direct causal relationship between the academic discourse and girls’ sexual behavior” either- because I think the “teach kids what to think instead of teaching them how to think” in itself is a symptom of a bigger underlying cultural pathology.

But anyway…..thoughts?
 

Orangey

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Why isn't this reaching male sexuality?
 

Lark

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From: Teen Girls and Sex: “It’s like doing homework”




Here’s part of the abstract from the actual study. (I won’t post more than the abstract though- I only really ever worry about copyright infringement when a piece of writing includes an explicit request, and this one does.)




It doesn’t really surprise me. And I don’t know that I’d say there’s a “direct causal relationship between the academic discourse and girls’ sexual behavior” either- because I think the “teach kids what to think instead of teaching them how to think” in itself is a symptom of a bigger underlying cultural pathology.

But anyway…..thoughts?

I'm not surprised that the cultural background which involves a skills and competence focus influences other things, I'd be surprised if it didnt and I'm not surprised that it influences sexuality since it is pretty central in peoples lives too. I think that this account resonates a lot with me but I had always thought I felt this way because I was ENTJ.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Why isn't this reaching male sexuality?

I don’t know what disturbs me more- that attitude towards intimacy can be “hollowed out” en masse as described, or that it gets “hollowed out” so disproportionately towards male entitlement. I don’t really know why the urge to nurture is stronger in females- I don’t especially have a strong opinion on whether it’s nature or nurture, I haven’t kept up with studies in that regard (most of the time I have a hard time believing the ‘results’ from such studies are interpreted well enough to find the conclusion worthwhile)…..but if there IS a strong element of nature present in that difference then that’d go a long way to explain why this “hollowing out” is affecting the genders differently. Even if it is mostly nurture though- them’s strong forces at work in a developing child’s mind; even people who can claim to carry their own opinions independent of the cultural norms around them are still far more influenced than they’d like to believe (in comparison to sheeple they stand out, sure, but overall we’re all still social creatures who take in pre-existing values to function amongst others). So social norms about gender differences are going to have an effect on what gets produced when attitudes towards intimacy are “hollowed out”.

I think that this account resonates a lot with me but I had always thought I felt this way because I was ENTJ.

Out of curiosity, can you explain exactly what it is that resonates?
 

Lark

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Out of curiosity, can you explain exactly what it is that resonates?

The skills and competence idea of sexual relations.

I know that its how almost everyone I've known since my teens thinks about it pretty much, the idea that its a fun thing which takes no mastery has disappeared and the only thing I'd say is that unless you're a douche bag, which could be male or female too, its not something which is restricted to the female sex either.

Although perhaps there needs to be a broader net thrown than the academic ideology when you're searching for the underpinning world view or cultural context, publishing maxes out the whole sex and how to literature every once in a while, 50 shades of grey is informing this too and its part of the reason I found it disturbing because if that's the unacknowledged "teach" for people these days its not what I recognise as a good or healthy guide.

A lot of the latest apps and new technology and must have mod cons are all reading orientated and this will mean that "reading about" will continue to inform thinking and feeling and culture.
 

the state i am in

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that's how the game in the sexual marketplace is presented. females, affected in part by female discourse and value markets, provide a majority (how vast it is difficult to tell) of the pair-bonding impetus. having a majority vote of semi codependent F types helps, when F types need more personal commitment to thrive (and probably more support in a non-domestic, abroad sense). and having a greater burden for nurturing offspring, including deeper level hormonal/biological/cognitive changes regarding personal identity when giving birth probably also suggest that there are other factors that females try to negotiate at various stages of the process. i don't think sex can ever be fully divorced from this socio-biological, reproductive context, no matter how much we try to do so.

also, males are far, far more likely to make decisions based on sexual objectification factors because they're often emotionally retarded, their sexual response system is more immediate and auditioning a different kind of archetypal role. they are also less integrated into a coherent, widely relational socio-cognitive system (also not sure about the precise nature-nurture factors here, but both seem to support this), so many of their actual partner preferences are wildly out of balance and not really grounded in solid relational assessment. plus they're kind of taught they should think those things are okay but need to take a backseat (oh the irony!) to what needs to happen, the real decisions, the work of men. "i don't care if you're not in the mood. i need this! do your job, dammit!"

it seems pretty clear that there are more sx males than females. this also distorts the overall game by making it so that the "me getting what i want will make me whole" rather than through this relational process we will build something that is whole. much more self-aggrandizement, trying to win, competing for better prizes.

it's really not surprising that as we focus more and more on achievement and the "objectification" of the game, modeling everything on the capitalist idea of a fair marketplace, totally fucks up the relationality, the F of our gender game. and it's not really surprising that the inter-gender competitiveness we all must employ in order to do well for ourselves would take on this performance rhetoric. females know nowadays that they have to compete in a different way in social spaces because of the assertions of feminist rhetoric, right? they MUST exercise all of their rights. everyone must, or they will not "live up to their full potential." which is based on a hyper-competitive, sx, high risk high stakes capitalist game mentality that is really helpful to setup a highly conservative ideology across other domains of difference (/class). this is the opposite of building qualitative spaces and creating complex female dynamics that share responsibilities and take pressure off of individuals to solely mediate themselves in terms of these competitive economic games. when value is strictly quantifiable.

in short, the more aspects of everyday life become reorganized by the discourse and ideology of the economic marketplace (and the need to devote more and more to competing within this pseudo-objective (objectifying) system, the more empty we all become.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I know that its how almost everyone I've known since my teens thinks about it pretty much, the idea that its a fun thing which takes no mastery has disappeared and the only thing I'd say is that unless you're a douche bag, which could be male or female too, its not something which is restricted to the female sex either.

It likely isn’t restricted to the female sex, but it affects the female sex significantly more. I’d think, if only because males’ physiology- especially during puberty- inclines them to actually want sex more. (Also, what state_i_am said. )

Although perhaps there needs to be a broader net thrown than the academic ideology when you're searching for the underpinning world view or cultural context, publishing maxes out the whole sex and how to literature every once in a while, 50 shades of grey is informing this too and its part of the reason I found it disturbing because if that's the unacknowledged "teach" for people these days its not what I recognise as a good or healthy guide.

I do agree that causation should be linked more to underlying cultural values (which happen to inform academic idealogy in the first place), yet I also believe that paying close attention to how cultural values influence academic discourse is important because education is a primary means of transferring cultural values from one generation to the next. What’s popular in social media is, in a way, a direct result of the education people have received. Though it could be said the reverse also holds true somewhat (having media out there to reinforce certain attitudes will make it’s way back to informing education)- education can be actively modified by deliberate reflection, while social media is pretty much entirely at the mercy of consumer vote (and people just aren’t very mindful about the media they chose to ingest in their free time).

it's really not surprising that as we focus more and more on achievement and the "objectification" of the game, modeling everything on the capitalist idea of a fair marketplace, totally fucks up the relationality, the F of our gender game. and it's not really surprising that the inter-gender competitiveness we all must employ in order to do well for ourselves would take on this performance rhetoric. females know nowadays that they have to compete in a different way in social spaces because of the assertions of feminist rhetoric, right? they MUST exercise all of their rights. everyone must, or they will not "live up to their full potential." which is based on a hyper-competitive, sx, high risk high stakes capitalist game mentality that is really helpful to setup a highly conservative ideology across other domains of difference (/class). this is the opposite of building qualitative spaces and creating complex female dynamics that share responsibilities and take pressure off of individuals to solely mediate themselves in terms of these competitive economic games. when value is strictly quantifiable.

in short, the more aspects of everyday life become reorganized by the discourse and ideology of the economic marketplace (and the need to devote more and more to competing within this pseudo-objective (objectifying) system, the more empty we all become.

Yeah, I think that “hollowing out” is an effective description [and that it applies to what’s happening more generally to human character- beyond simply girls’ attitudes towards sex- because (imo) of educational discourse: our schools are creating productive cogs]. The ol’ postmodern de-centering of the human subject chestnut. It objectifies the subjective human experience by esteeming the appearance of quality (objectively quantifiable) over the experience of quality (not objectively quantifiable)- disempowering the subject from being able to organically define one’s self and/or the value of one’s own experience. It posits a somewhat mindless craving for the experience of the appearance of quality: mistaking ‘success’ according to external standards as therefore also being ‘success’ according to internal standards. (When value is strictly quantifiable. :yes: )
 

Lark

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I sort of thought you were saying interesting things there but the last paragraph was a lot of post modern bullshit, the minute I read stuff like that I stop reading. Its not complexity, its just bullshit.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to dismiss with "complexity" (it seems to me like you're suggesting that was the goal, instead of actually having some underlying point). If you have a specific disagreement with the content, I'd be interested in hearing it. Otherwise, I don't know, I guess I'll just dismiss it as the usual Te 'I don't have any criticism of substance to offer, but I'll make sure they know I don't like what they're saying by using generic and oafish insults' response.
 
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I'd theorize that that kind of attitude would correlate with a culture that tends to discourage positive sexuality in women and teenage girls, while flooding you with things associated with heterosexual male sexuality.

Then again, I was raised by fundamentalists and I still find the attitude described in the OP utterly alien, so who knows.
 

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I finally got around to reading the study.

This is a sub-selection of 274 from 476 'young women' who had performed oral sex; a sub-selection of 98 from the 274 that were willing to be interviewed; with the literature itself being about a sub-selection of 44 from the 98. It is not representative enough to generalize. Also, reading some snapshots of the interviews make me think that there is a lot of confusion involved, which is hardly surprising.Finally age of 16.2, SD 0.91 is a higher age than I would expect (I was expecting 14-16 SD 1.x).

However, the study is very interesting. I honestly don't see any issue here; from what I can tell, sexual expression of these particular types is interesting and worth investigating, but would need to be put in a larger context to turn it into a social issue (cross cultural, longitudinal, better sampling).
 

Mole

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The world has changed - now pornography is available to all at the touch of a button. And pornography is the graphic depiction of the brothel. And now we have the brothel without walls 24/7 on the internet.

This has not passed unnoticed by teenage girls who have responded with Raunch Culture.
 

Z Buck McFate

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It is not representative enough to generalize. [...] ...from what I can tell, sexual expression of these particular types is interesting and worth investigating, but would need to be put in a larger context to turn it into a social issue (cross cultural, longitudinal, better sampling).

Yes, the importance of this can't be understated.
 

skylights

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This is something that concerns me, too, the echoes of the capitalistic system in personal life, which I think is what is reaching into the educational system as well - I have several family members in education and we often discuss the bastardization of education into a production line for cogs, too, with "hollow", as you say, methods for assessment of true growth, development, maturity, and thought.

For those who question the reality of capitalism impinging upon relationships and sexuality, the Fifty Shades of Grey series is an excellent example, with the love interests' affluence making up for what he lacks in actual relational skills, and the protagonist essentially taking on the role of another item in the man's collection of possessions. She does rebel against this, but in response, he shifts her status from possession into co-owner/bourgeoisie.

Perhaps it's no coincidence that I am having these thoughts on Thanksgiving Day, a time for gratitude of what we have (immediately followed by massive sick insanity of consumerism that is Black Friday). I think it is beyond time for the world to move past capitalism... it's a system that plays into human weaknesses and causes us to prey upon one another. We're socialized into seeing others as competition, to see resources as scarce, to search for things that will create happiness. We are drawn into a perspective of the world where there is never enough. Of course it is coded into our DNA that we must survive, above all... which brings me to the thought -

it seems pretty clear that there are more sx males than females. this also distorts the overall game by making it so that the "me getting what i want will make me whole" rather than through this relational process we will build something that is whole. much more self-aggrandizement, trying to win, competing for better prizes. [...] sx, high risk high stakes capitalist game mentality that is really helpful to setup a highly conservative ideology across other domains of difference (/class).

As sx-dom myself, this rang somewhat true but also not as the whole story. Unfortunately I think it is every instinct variant that plays into the capitalism of culture - the very word instinct is the key. We are all wired to survive at any cost, and the sx focus on intimacy and immersion is only one manifestation of the desperate vestigial "I need I need I need". Sp must have housing, food, transportation, control. So must have the herd, insiders and outsiders, positions, roles. Capitalism provides all of this, keeping sp-doms on their toes in terms of needing money to have the essentials and so-doms in terms of needing money to have social security. It is a system based on liquefaction of need, which is a necessary movement out of manorialism since open land is no longer "sacred", but is inherently unsustainable...

Of course, the economic question is, what next?

The problem I see is that you and I as Ns and as Head Triad enneatypes share the impulse to look forward and try to guess the future, to anticipate how to best survive and how to best make ourselves happy. There is futility in not looking far beyond the present, but the "more more more" game is also an element of our need to stay alive. Sex and reproduction are an element of that, too. We no longer harbor the cultural beliefs that certain humans are granted ruling status from the divinities above, but capitalism is beginning to fail, too.

Maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow, but I'm thinking that at least in my relationship today, I'm going to be grateful for what I have, because it's more than enough to get me through. Sexually, I am not the most skilled but neither am I the least skilled, and it's enough for myself and my partner. Economically, the same is true. More money doesn't usually make me happier anyway, it's just more. More freedom does, though. More time to spend with my family does. More focus on creativity and nurturing does.

I know I've deviated a bit from the OP, but it was an open invitation, right? Sex should be more like homework should be. It should be to teach you how to ultimately fulfill yourself and how to help others fulfill themselves, while fulfilling you in the moment, too.

Bertrand Russell said:
The human animal, like others, is adapted to a certain amount of struggle for life, and when by means of great wealth homo sapiens can gratify all his whims without effort, the mere absence of effort from his life removes an essential ingredient of happiness. The man who acquires easily things for which he feels only a very moderate desire concludes that the attainment of desire does not bring happiness. If he is of a philosophic disposition, he concludes that human life is essentially wretched, since the man who has all he wants is still unhappy. He forgets that to be without some of the things you want is an indispensable part of happiness."

I just stumbled upon this. Food for thought... wanting and needing are indispensable - and they will serve to continually improve the human condition... Perhaps a next step is trying to come to terms with holding want and appreciation at the same time, and not letting short-sighted want get the better of us. Learning how to plan for long-term needs while enjoying the short-term, instead of needing in the short-term and trying to plan for happiness in the long-term. Instead of fighting the crowds to get our cake today and planning on eating it tomorrow, planning to have our cake for tomorrow and eating it today. Or turkey, however your family rolls!

We need this, and goodwill without boundaries. Relinquishment of control. Willingness to see that benefit for one is benefit for all. Letting go of competition for resources, because we are powerful enough and smart enough to create our own resources. Humanity can sustain humanity. There is enough for all. I think socialism has a good idea, if we can utilize it well. We have to see - and act in a way that acknowledges - that there truly is enough to make everybody happy, and that inequality of material resources is not tantamount to unhappiness, but inequality of intangibles is.
 

the state i am in

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The problem I see is that you and I as Ns and as Head Triad enneatypes share the impulse to look forward and try to guess the future, to anticipate how to best survive and how to best make ourselves happy. There is futility in not looking far beyond the present, but the "more more more" game is also an element of our need to stay alive. Sex and reproduction are an element of that, too. We no longer harbor the cultural beliefs that certain humans are granted ruling status from the divinities above, but capitalism is beginning to fail, too.

Maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow, but I'm thinking that at least in my relationship today, I'm going to be grateful for what I have, because it's more than enough to get me through. Sexually, I am not the most skilled but neither am I the least skilled, and it's enough for myself and my partner. Economically, the same is true. More money doesn't usually make me happier anyway, it's just more. More freedom does, though. More time to spend with my family does. More focus on creativity and nurturing does.

I know I've deviated a bit from the OP, but it was an open invitation, right? Sex should be more like homework should be. It should be to teach you how to ultimately fulfill yourself and how to help others fulfill themselves, while fulfilling you in the moment, too.

fuck, this last line is on the precipice of turning my mind inside out. the purity of the idea of sex holds me to a standard that is impossible to live out. i have been so pessimistic, feeling that it is your truth, and that the truth you actualize requires a kind of sanctification to protect you and the power of the process from being diminished or used improperly. that there is a right way and a wrong way rather than simply a variety of ways (like learning how to do something rather than just thinking that the absolutist method given to you is the only way). it's a kind of overidentification with the transcendental idea, trusting too much in the beauty of an idea and not, as one of my best friends, an entp 7w6 sx/so likes to tell me, "trusting time" enough.

because as an idea outside of time and particulars, it's impossible to protect that space in the actualization of it, as it becomes real, against the constant sinking feeling of contradictions, exploitation, and the power aspect that i have not been able to reconcile within myself or within the world, instead wanting everything to be heart-based and theoretically perfect. feeling that i always end up hurting and being hurt, and feeling that we all must be responsible for this on behalf of each other rather than on behalf of ourselves. i deny that others and myself must learn to trust ourselves and learn for ourselves and that no other way is possible. there is no prediction, cultural or otherwise, that can fully encapsulate the future. no norms, no behaviors, no symbols that can by themselves protect us from learning the hard way. your statement reminds me that this is an experiential, subjective ethic, a guideline for taking responsibility for your own growth and allowing your own process to unfold with a realization of why it is beautiful for YOU to keep trying to discover, empower, and create the foundation for you to fulfill yourself in a way that learns the art of mutual benefit, which can only be learned from your own experience and your own ability to fulfill yourself. your part in fostering mutual authenticity must begin from your own (like your part in teaching what you have learned rather than simply parroting what you have heard or been indoctrinated with). and you must accept that these things too are impermanent, unpredictable, and somewhat open-ended.

you've also just redefined sx desire/will as like "will to personal fulfillment" which seems kind of ingenious. perhaps this is the sx specialty. this seems to be what i want to talk about and work on pretty much all the time. two days ago, i had 10 hours of 3 different conversations each one rooted in the theme of striving for personal fulfillment. how can we do better for ourselves, each other, the world? how can we honor our individualization more and more while protecting the spaces that we must share, that bind us together as individuals and as collectives? so many conversations revolve around this and the idea of "mutual benefit," especially with my enp friends. to make something with this huge change potential we all carry around within us (also realizing when to stay lean, sp, and when to share, so).

i laugh at myself thinking how, ultimately, i've been going crazy because i feel so compelled to work these out on ALL levels, while i feel so blocked in some ways. to accept this process which requires a willingness to employ and submit to the biopower, forcefulness, and reactivity of myself and others, rather than solely staying in-mind, thinking i can stay a few steps ahead and that i can use my advantages without truly exploring my disadvantages, those vulnerabilities that actually prevent me from being free. without feeling like i'm using them or being used by them. yet to be positive about the process, my will to personal fulfillment is forcing me to confront the nature of bodies, power, and asymmetry (that e5 --> e8 shadow integration). it is forcing me to realize that without greater personal responsibility, fostered by personal empowerment, the third chakra, i cannot practice compassion because i am not strong enough to produce enough to be able to offer ongoing, consistent giving (to others and to myself). similarly, without a greater acceptance of personal responsibility and individual autonomy, rather than demanding so much consideration and pre-emptive self-protection, i cannot engage with my own creative potential, i cannot focus on the spaciousness of the moment and exploring it and relating to it in all ways that I, MYSELF, have presently in the unfolding pages of my own story.

your personal fulfillment is on your shoulders, not someone else's. while socio-cultural games could hopefully provide opportunities for personal fulfillment, what you have control over is what you need to focus your energies on most of all. because you cannot control others. and doing so to protect your own conditions of fulfillment, even if you think it is for everyone's benefit, is a step beyond your rights. too many of these steps, and our culture as a whole loses its authenticity, its ability to empathize with itself, its ability to honor the path of experience beyond the mediated ways it has of guessing what those experiences *must* mean. (also true of relationships). at the same time, the j way of recognizing how to share effectively, symbiotically, is necessary to refine the ways in which mutual benefit is organized and implemented in order to maximize resources. there is a tension in both directions.
 

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fuck, this last line is on the precipice of turning my mind inside out. the purity of the idea of sex holds me to a standard that is impossible to live out. i have been so pessimistic, feeling that it is your truth, and that the truth you actualize requires a kind of sanctification to protect you and the power of the process from being diminished or used improperly. that there is a right way and a wrong way rather than simply a variety of ways (like learning how to do something rather than just thinking that the absolutist method given to you is the only way). it's a kind of overidentification with the transcendental idea, trusting too much in the beauty of an idea and not, as one of my best friends, an entp 7w6 sx/so likes to tell me, "trusting time" enough.

because as an idea outside of time and particulars, it's impossible to protect that space in the actualization of it, as it becomes real, against the constant sinking feeling of contradictions, exploitation, and the power aspect that i have not been able to reconcile within myself or within the world, instead wanting everything to be heart-based and theoretically perfect. feeling that i always end up hurting and being hurt, and feeling that we all must be responsible for this on behalf of each other rather than on behalf of ourselves. i deny that others and myself must learn to trust ourselves and learn for ourselves and that no other way is possible. there is no prediction, cultural or otherwise, that can fully encapsulate the future. no norms, no behaviors, no symbols that can by themselves protect us from learning the hard way. your statement reminds me that this is an experiential, subjective ethic, a guideline for taking responsibility for your own growth and allowing your own process to unfold with a realization of why it is beautiful for YOU to keep trying to discover, empower, and create the foundation for you to fulfill yourself in a way that learns the art of mutual benefit, which can only be learned from your own experience and your own ability to fulfill yourself. your part in fostering mutual authenticity must begin from your own (like your part in teaching what you have learned rather than simply parroting what you have heard or been indoctrinated with). and you must accept that these things too are impermanent, unpredictable, and somewhat open-ended.

you've also just redefined sx desire/will as like "will to personal fulfillment" which seems kind of ingenious. perhaps this is the sx specialty. this seems to be what i want to talk about and work on pretty much all the time. two days ago, i had 10 hours of 3 different conversations each one rooted in the theme of striving for personal fulfillment. how can we do better for ourselves, each other, the world? how can we honor our individualization more and more while protecting the spaces that we must share, that bind us together as individuals and as collectives? so many conversations revolve around this and the idea of "mutual benefit," especially with my enp friends. to make something with this huge change potential we all carry around within us (also realizing when to stay lean, sp, and when to share, so).

i laugh at myself thinking how, ultimately, i've been going crazy because i feel so compelled to work these out on ALL levels, while i feel so blocked in some ways. to accept this process which requires a willingness to employ and submit to the biopower, forcefulness, and reactivity of myself and others, rather than solely staying in-mind, thinking i can stay a few steps ahead and that i can use my advantages without truly exploring my disadvantages, those vulnerabilities that actually prevent me from being free. without feeling like i'm using them or being used by them. yet to be positive about the process, my will to personal fulfillment is forcing me to confront the nature of bodies, power, and asymmetry (that e5 --> e8 shadow integration). it is forcing me to realize that without greater personal responsibility, fostered by personal empowerment, the third chakra, i cannot practice compassion because i am not strong enough to produce enough to be able to offer ongoing, consistent giving (to others and to myself). similarly, without a greater acceptance of personal responsibility and individual autonomy, rather than demanding so much consideration and pre-emptive self-protection, i cannot engage with my own creative potential, i cannot focus on the spaciousness of the moment and exploring it and relating to it in all ways that I, MYSELF, have presently in the unfolding pages of my own story.

your personal fulfillment is on your shoulders, not someone else's. while socio-cultural games could hopefully provide opportunities for personal fulfillment, what you have control over is what you need to focus your energies on most of all. because you cannot control others. and doing so to protect your own conditions of fulfillment, even if you think it is for everyone's benefit, is a step beyond your rights. too many of these steps, and our culture as a whole loses its authenticity, its ability to empathize with itself, its ability to honor the path of experience beyond the mediated ways it has of guessing what those experiences *must* mean. (also true of relationships). at the same time, the j way of recognizing how to share effectively, symbiotically, is necessary to refine the ways in which mutual benefit is organized and implemented in order to maximize resources. there is a tension in both directions.


Read all this. Got nothing. More concise and clear please?
 

Lark

Active member
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Jun 21, 2009
Messages
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To be honest this sex by numbers thing is not fun, not even in theory, practically its got to be awful.
 

Z Buck McFate

Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
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sx/sp
Sex should be more like homework should be. It should be to teach you how to ultimately fulfill yourself and how to help others fulfill themselves, while fulfilling you in the moment, too.

Exactly, ideally it would all be far more about self-actualization.

I know I've deviated a bit from the OP, but it was an open invitation, right?

Actually, my own reaction to finding/reading the study was considering how it’s just another symptom of a cultural pathology- how the “hollowing out” in the specific regard mentioned is just one more of the many ways the human character is being ‘hollowed out’. I didn’t write a big ol’ op about it though because really I just wanted to see others’ reactions to the study, to hear about what sort of tangents it set off in anyone else’s head.

And while I’m often so quick to complain about the education system, I do give props to anyone who can stand to work within the system while seeing what’s wrong with it. From what I’ve gathered, the curriculum is so strict that teachers have very little wiggle room. For the sake of efficiency they’re handed *exactly* what to teach, given a strict schedule by which they’re supposed to teach it and they’re competency as teachers is measured by the extent kids soak up the very specific curriculum. This is regarded as the ‘most productive’ approach- but imo (which is largely informed by John Dewey, Maria Montessori, John Holt, Sir Kenneth Robinson :heart:, amongst others) it’s WAY too focused on being as productive as possible without paying any attention to *what* is being produced. So much of it is just teaching kids to senselessly jump through hoops and ultimately it only stifles self-actualization by extinguishing the innate desire to learn and grow. So yeah, I hate the factory mentality that pervades our approach to education, I hate how it only perpetuates something pathological about our society as a whole and I personally saw the content of this study as just another domino in that chain.
 
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