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  1. #31
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Aug 2008


    To the girls that are saying their bonds with men are stronger and that they lack bonds with women in their life..

    ... Do you feel the men think of the bond in the exact same way?

    I really don't mean the 1 person you've bonded with your entire life and he really is a brother to you, etc. etc. And maybe the childhood friend is excluded from this too.. But in general, looking at the *majority* of your male friends where the claim is that they are more plentiful and fulfilling than your female friends, would you say that your gender has absolutely little to no influence on your relationship? Even if they treat you like a brother on the more shallow points.. do they do it to the point where they let you do things like.. say.. jump into fights, or invite you to every gathering they have as if excluding you would be excluding one of their fellow men, or other things of that nature? Does sexual attraction come into play, where they've attempted to date you, or found themselves attracted to you, or initially started the friendship out of attraction but it didnt end up being a factor for other reasons?

    The only thing that ended up really holding me back from bonding with females is *my* lack of communication with them. I didn't really truly WANT to have a deep, meaningful bond with females.. so I simply never attempted it. Once I started saying that I should try it for the sake of doing so.. it turned out rather easy. The mentality was "ive never really bonded with them well before now.." and that complacency just kept rolling over year after year. I didnt like the same things they did, I didn't want to go shopping, blah blah blah. But those are all superficial and shallow aspects of it. I wouldn't say a majority of females in my life are my closest friends (We don't talk everyday.. I don't hang out with them constantly, or things like that), but I can say the only real lasting friendships in my life are from females. (I have some current friendships with males that I cannot see dying out anytime soon.. but I have thought that before in my life too, so I don't want to speak for the future.) The men tend to come, and go.. ebb and flow.. Good friendships fizzle out for no real reason, or they get caught up in a relationship, marry, and start to pour all of their emotional aspects of life into their wife and deem me useless afterwards.. whatever the reason is, its normally not malicious or bad.. they just don't really last.

    Im not a girly girl, I have different tastes from many of my chick friends.. but they really do accept me for who I am just the way I am.. Something I've found rather lacking in men. If they don't want me to change or act 'lady-like' in one shape or another, it's normally out of apathy and not genuine interest in me being who I am. Even people that are attracted to my tomboyish ways and that aspect of me starts the friendship initially, they will end up disliking a piece of it that doesn't fit in their box of preconceptions. It may not be a factor that would influence a shallow, everyday relationship. But in the back of my mind, the knowledge that I am not his equal in his mind is always there. Even if, to him, we're 'separate but equal' I'm not satisfied with that. It really didn't work out for people in the past, and there's a good reason why.. No one that separates things can look at them as equal at the same time. It's not in human nature to do so.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    4w5 so


    I very much enjoyed reading all of your responses. This topic is interesting to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    EDIT: I'm curious as to why the OP is concerned with this. Do you see it as some kind of ism or do you like people to fit nicely into gender defined roles...or something else?

    Was there a specific instance/group of instances etc that lead you to start the thread?
    I would not say I like people to fit into defined gender roles at all.

    I suppose this is a concern to me because of my background and my particular experiences. My mom is a very asexual type, so is my sister, and that was my entire family growing up. As a result, I didn't feel the need to be "girly" or "boyish" or anything. I felt the freedom to just be myself. But as I grew older and I saw how many girls bonded with each other with this sort of stereotypical behavior and attitude, I felt the need to place myself apart. I was different. After a period of mostly male friendships, and friendships with other women who didn't get along with other women, (except me, because I was cool), I realized where I realized where I had made an error.

    By making generalizations about girly girls, I was just making superficial judgments. There is nothing wrong with being girly. Women constantly defensively exclaiming "I'm not a girly girl" begins to create the picture that it is something negative, that smart women should not be. I find most women who say this are not just stating it to describe themselves, they are priding themselves on it. Why can't we just say we are people? We're sometimes girly, we are sometimes boyish, we are whatever. I just don't like how we label ourselves and other women, and I don't think it helps womankind in society's often cruel judgment of us.

    I have old female friends from that phase of my life who have not grown out of women bashing. For these particular women, I see it as male dependence and low self esteem. They take the terrible things that some men say to heart, and feed into it by trying to be the epitome of male-defined coolness.

    I could go on and on, but there's so much to say that I'm going to get obsessive about the cohesiveness of this essay.

    I really liked hearing your experiences. Share more!

    Edit: I suppose this issue I have with some of my female friends is why I felt like starting this thread. I feel somewhat isolated in my social circle right now, so I was hoping to hear other experiences.
    ( . )( . )

  3. #33
    Step into my office. Luv Deluxe's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    7w6 sx/sp


    I have many thoughts on this interesting topic, and I hope that I can crystallize them here without offending anyone. Everyone has a unique history, and everyone - whether male or female - is different. While knowing that generalizations can be inherently dangerous, we nonetheless find patterns while examining our experiences, and we learn what tends to work for us in relationships.

    I'm one of those women who has a more difficult time getting along with other women. I don't identify as a tomboy, either. I'm still very aware of the social and biological differences between myself and my guy friends, and while I can relate to them at least better than I relate to women, I know those differences will always be present. With female friends, however, I have often struggled to maintain identification at all. There are several reasons for this, and the negative experiences of my adolescence have almost certainly augmented the interpersonal distance on some level.

    My elementary, middle, and high school years were, for lack of a better word, horrible. The bullying began when I was in first grade, and while some eras were worse than others, it remained a consistent factor throughout my childhood and teenage years. This torment, whether by coincidence or not, was perpetrated exclusively by the other girls. When I was six years old, I couldn't understand why this was happening; I only knew that it was, and that it hurt. It began with name-calling, social exclusion, etc., but soon escalated to the theft of my personal property and the orchestration of pranks intended to publicly humiliate me. I knew a completely different group of girls by the time I reached high school, but things had not improved much. I regularly received hate mail, which dissected and ridiculed my personality, sometimes outright encouraging me to kill myself. I began to spend most of my time in the counselor's office. Sometimes I skipped school when I couldn't work up the mental stamina to endure it. Eventually, I ended up in professional therapy. I had one loyal friend, and yes, he was a boy. (We are still friends to this day.)

    I've been able to do a lot of healing in the six years between then and now, but I'm still a little wary of new women. It's not that I immediately dislike them or have no desire to befriend them; it simply takes more time and effort to build trust and become comfortable around them (as compared to men). At the same time, if a woman complains about difficulty or drama with other women, I will not dismiss her. There is always a chance that the issues could be very serious, and she may be in great need of someone to talk to.

    Okay - now I need to move away from the heavy stuff.

    I think people tend to forge closer relationships over shared interests, tastes, and experiences. Most of my tastes and interests are not stereotypically feminine. I'm not remotely suggesting that all women like romantic comedies, makeovers, and gossip rags, but I personally don't care for any of those items and therefore should not be expected to prefer the company of someone who is a stereotypical girly-girl. It has simply been trickier to find female buddies who enjoy the same things I do. Again, I'm not saying those girls don't exist; I just haven't met them, and it has consequently been easier to connect with guys over these activities. One of my guy pals couldn't get a night off work when we had planned to go to a hockey game (for which I already had tickets), so I dragged a female friend along instead. It was a bad experience for both of us.

    Then there's the matter of clashing perspectives. In particular, my views on relationships and sex tend to contrast quite a bit from the opinions of my female friends. We can still get along, but it's hard for either party to discuss certain issues without raising eyebrows or making the other person feel judged in some way. Again, my guy friends actually empathize with my perspectives more often than not.

    And yes, there are absolutely differences between a man-man friendship and the friendship maintained by a man and myself. Sometimes the relationship does indeed shift from platonic to romantic. We're both adults, and these things can and do happen. It's nobody's fault. In fact, this is just about the only way I can cultivate a meaningful romantic interest in someone - by being friends first. My boyfriend and I were friends for about six months before we acknowledged our chemistry. On the other hand, it can be difficult to discourage a friend you're not interested in, or to swallow feelings when they're not reciprocated. With a strong bond and mutual respect, however, this doesn't have to be insurmountable.

    Gender role fulfillment crops up every so often too, which serves as a reminder that I'm not "one of the guys." One of my friends is a total bro on the surface, but he always looks out for me whenever we (and a couple of other male friends) go out for drinks. He tends to watch when other guys approach me, and steps in if they behave inappropriately.

    Ultimately, we all bring individual personalities and experiences to the table, and not all of us are going to prefer the same things. I've unfortunately had to make some generalizations in order to illustrate my viewpoints here, but I believe that gender is not a neat, clean, black and white concept. There are girls who enjoy sports and men who care about fashion, girls who dislike talking about their emotions and men who can't get enough of it. I'm only reporting what has been true for myself, so that I can explain why I seem to prefer the company of men.

    tl;dr: The expression of one's frustration with other women need not necessarily be a sign of misogyny, immaturity, insecurity, projection, or low self-esteem. To automatically dismiss it as such seems lazy, in my opinion.
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  4. #34
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Jun 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Yeah, it's usually mommy issues being projected onto other women.
    Yes. I think girls' school helped to save me from this fate.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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