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  1. #21
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Dec 2008
    4w5 so/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    I grew up with five boys approx the same age as me in a parent set up creche, i knew all of them from pretty much since the time they were born and slept in the same cots etc.
    I pretty much was one of the boys since i had short hair till i was six or seven, usually wore trousers/shorts and tee's and generally did things which are considered more 'male'. Like bmx-ing for example.

    I have always felt more comfortable around males though i did opt for longer hair and skirts when i was given the choice.

    I found over the years that girly girls i just don't have much in common with. I am very feminine (aparently) but definately get on with men better in the larger picture.

    I have nurtured/fostered several friendships with women in more recent years and find that i get on with women who are more outspoken, strong willed and have similar moral views... I do have several very good friendships now with women but initially i had to fight to make them work.
    Yeah, being a tom boy doesn't necessarily mean you can't be bothered with women.

    I'm not really girly at all, and like a lot of typically masculine things/activities (and dislike a lot of feminine things, like shopping), it doesn't preclude friendship with fairly girly girls. I think when I was younger and superficial differences mattered more, it was a bit of a barrier. Once you (and others) learn to look beyond that and see that at heart, human beings aren't all that different, it matters less. I mean if someone talks constantly about things that irritates or bores the shit out of me, I'm probably not going to be able to be friends with them, but that's got nothing to do with sex.

    I think it can be kinda fashionable to bash (so called) feminine behaviour/traits, and some women want to differentiate themselves from the stereotypes by joining in on it. I can see why they do it (I really hate being lumped into those stereotypes too), but it's not the best way of going about it.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
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    - Emily Bronte

  2. #22
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
    5w4 sx/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    Tends to irritate the hell out of me. I usually see it as projection.
    Does this mean you hate women who hate women?

    Why restrict your irritation to women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #23
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    7W6 sp/sx


    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I think it can be kinda fashionable to bash (so called) feminine behaviour/traits, and some women want to differentiate themselves from the stereotypes by joining in on it. I can see why they do it (I really hate being lumped into those stereotypes too), but it's not the best way of going about it.
    I have no problem bashing stereotypes, i like to dynamite those walls in the name of equality.

    I will admit to stereotyping, albeit to a lesser degree than many.

    Contradictory yes but it is impossible to be completely objective.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  4. #24


    I would hate all guys, too, if I thought of all guys as the "HEY BRO, HEY BRO, LET'S GET PUMPED AND DRINK AND DO P90X AND WATCH MMA" type

  5. #25
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008


    My initial thoughts to this are:
    1. These phrases are being spoken by a tomboy or someone who grew up closer to males that can't fit in with females quite yet because they haven't grown into more adult stages of life. (Guilty of these phrases in my teenage years for this reason.)
    2. They're girls attempting to convince others that they're somehow the different, mystical exception to this entire world of females. These sort of social things come in other forms.. constantly re-affirming to others verbally how innocent and nice/friendly they are.. or how much of an asshole they are. As if people can't observe for themselves, they verbally throw those things out there to help compensate for the lack of affirmation from their friends on their own.

    Either way, it's linked to immaturity in my head.

    I don't have many female friends.. and I'm not going to say I was anywhere near close to the ones I grew up with as I am to those I am around now. Boys and men and their dynamics always appealed to me growing up.. But when you're young, you're constantly being told that boys and girls are different too.

    Men are dramatic, catty, whiny, nagging, and everything else they complain to themselves about women for. Because PEOPLE have those traits. How they express it may be slightly different, but the principles and concepts are still there. Don't believe me? Go on a deployment with a group of guys, and see how dramatic they are.. how whiny and pouty they get. How much they nag about this, and that..

    It isn't that I didn't relate to girls. It was more that I didn't relate to the immaturity and behaviors at the time. My immaturity stemmed from more boyish traits, is all. Had nothing to do with girls themselves and how they acted.

    Anyone who thinks the dynamics are so vastly different that they cannot be friends with women, or close friends with women (Not to confuse this comment with people who simply have not met a woman they are close to friendship wise) is simply being sexist for no damn good reason.

    The "Brotherhood" people talk about? I've had bonds with girls stretch beyond my immature, girl-denouncing childish ways.. When I kept proclaiming girls weren't close to me, they stuck by me until I stopped acting stupid. And I've had men I went to war with, who I risked my life for and they for mine, and they've dropped that friendship like a hot potato.

    Usually, the dudes that create 'brotherhood's.. Do not invite girls into them. Sorry, but that's the way it is. You're a girl. If they're in that mentality, you will not be in their circle the same way you think you are. I feel very close to a group of guys that have this bond with each other.. But I am not one of their brothers. I am merely a friend to them all.

    And as close of friends as I'd like to think my guys and I are while on deployment.. when the deployment is over, we all scatter.. and our friendship dynamic changes drastically when wives and girlfriends start to be seen again.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  6. #26
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
    6w7 sp/sx


    I've said these statements before in the past. As I got older, I've developed some really great female friends. They back you up through everything... Now I realize that for some reason, I'm immediately more comfortable with males and it takes me longer to bond with females. I always preferred male doctors, male teachers, etc. They usually inspire calm in me where females can make me nervous. Just a gut reaction that's been ingrained in my neurons somehow.

    Definitely have had longer and stronger friendships with females over time though. (Kind of weird to maintain a platonic relationship with that many males over time.)
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008


    When girls say this, I feel kind of bad for them. It sucks to not have someone of the same gender you can relate to/ be close with.

    But, yeah, the majority of the time I just ignore it, since they're usually bragging about it, not upset about it. Then again, I stopped hearing it since the age fourteen.

  8. #28
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007


    I have equal amounts, which is none of either one except in chicago where i have a few female friends and few male friends but in general i get along best with gay men, i don;t know why, i'm not a fag hag in that i don't search out homosexuals to be friends with they usually pick me.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #29


    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I would hate all guys, too, if I thought of all guys as the "HEY BRO, HEY BRO, LET'S GET PUMPED AND DRINK AND DO P90X AND WATCH MMA" type
    Oh, and to elaborate, this.

    'Hatred' of one's own gender arises because stereotypes are feedback loops--we think that we're supposed to adopt such-and-such a stereotype in order to meet others' expectations, especially in light social settings, and so we do. A "surface-level" group of girls would display magnified versions of their stereotypical traits--but in more intimate settings, such as one-on-one or among a trusted group of friends, other facets of their personalities will likely surface.

    Doesn't mean that 'a woman not liking other women' isn't valid or wrong; it's just that it's a heuristic--good in some situations, bad in others.

    Same with dudes, as per that thread linked above.

  10. #30
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010


    I wrote my thoughts here and in a subsequent post in that thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    I'm of two minds on this. First, at root its a kind of violence. If you want to get evolutionary biological/ cultural anthropological about it go right ahead. What it seems to boil down to is that women are more likely to display aggression indirectly, and it may be driven by biology more than we realize.

    But a lot of biological tendencies and baser impulses are controlled by civilized people, thats why I don't view all men as sexually aggressive brutes.

    I don't like wantonly hurtful or violent people. Be they men or women, whether the aggression is physical or psychological, indirect or direct. I don't choose to associate with them or feed into their destructive conflict cycles. They cause me mental pain, even if I am not the target of the aggression. Bullies repulse me. Its something I try to be conscious of in my own behavior, too. I don't become a bitch when in placed in a group of women. On this forum, I have mentioned my own experience of having problems feeling like I have much in common with many of the women that I meet. These things indicate to me that I am my own evidence that women aren't all driven to think and act the same, and I shouldn't assume my friendship experience reflects the gender.

    So this leads me to my second opinion on this topic, which is this quote from the web. This is not my language, and I know the OP wasn't going that far or espousing hate, but I still think its a good response to those people who do.
    Swear to God, I can’t stand to hear a woman claim that she thinks like a guy and hates women because they’re all catty. That’s misogyny. The very fact that you, as a woman, think differently from a socially-stereotyped woman is proof that our gender “norms” are fucking us over. Women are not all alike. Some of us like football. Some of us like talking on the phone. Some of us like religion. Some of us are emotional. Some of us speak three languages. Some of us have boyfriends. Some of us have girlfriends. Some of us wear lipstick. Some of us don’t shave our pits. Some of us have kids. Some of us worry we’ll drop our best friend’s baby. Now please stop claiming that you don’t act like a woman. It doesn’t make you a special fucking snowflake. It makes you a perpetrator of misogyny.
    eta: Whatever, I am sorry that this has happened and your workplace environment has become so ugly. I know how it is to be in a toxic environment like that, and its very hard
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