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Which Do You Reject Most?

Which do you reject the most?


  • Total voters
    23
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
You can choose to read this OP, but then you should quickly go to post #25, then you can read the other posts in the thread.

A. Someone pushing you past a physical boundary.

or

B. Someone pushing you past a mental boundary.

Alright. Explanation.

The first is someone forcing you into a physical experience that you do not wish to do, and the second is a person forcing you into an idea that you do not wish to entertain.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Physical. I can stop someone from forcing an idea on me more than I can someone forcing themselves physically onto me.
 

Wolfie

New member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
552
MBTI Type
xNxx
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so
Physical, of course.

I am relatively weak and could not hope to defend myself physically. Mentally, at least I've got a shot.
 

KDude

New member
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Jan 26, 2010
Messages
8,243
Physical.. the mental is usually fun to entertain at least. If someone is trying to force me physically, then it's pretty odd.. I'll usually do enough on my own, so someone pushing me is too arrogant or stupid to know my or their limits. Like a driver mocking me if I think he's out of control. I know when things are going wrong, physically. I could imagine I wouldn't fare well under military heirarchy too. Some people are pushed to completing missions in the least efficient ways. And they indoctrinate the average solider to believe it's a whole rite of passage or it'd make them a man or hero if they walked through hell. Then they all get killed. More than likely, I'd be court marshalled for going AWOL long before that.
 

Tyrinth

...
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
1,154
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INFP
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649
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
My answer could be either based on the context. Why do all of these polls assume one or the other is true in all situations?
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
if someone forces me to do either, I'm going to break them
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,988
A. Someone pushing you past a physical boundary.

or

B. Someone pushing you past a mental boundary.

Alright. Explanation.

The first is someone forcing you into a physical experience that you do not wish to do, and the second is a person forcing you into an idea that you do not wish to entertain.

The first would be some sort of assault or torture. The second sounds either impossible or trivial.

So clearly the first would be more objectionable.
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
Mental is far worse. It's the difference between psychological torture and physical torture...of course you'd prefer neither, but if you're forced to cede control of one of those things, I'd rather hang on to my mind.

Also, even in a more ordinary sense, psychological coercion is much more detestable to me than physical coercion, which is also quite despicable but far less sly and insidious. Plus, a lot of acts of physical coercion are bad more because of their mental effects than lasting physical damage.
 

Orangey

Blah
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Either I'm not understanding correctly or everyone else has failed to properly interpret what "force me into a change of ideas" means. I mean, first of all it would make most sense to assume that the options in the poll are supposed to be of comparable severity, right? Otherwise the question would make as much sense as asking "would you rather be given a rose, or would you rather lick scum off of the ground?"

So, assuming that the question is not stupid, that rules out any notions that "forcing into a physical experience" means "get your ass beat" (or the like) and "forcing into a change of ideas" means something like someone shrilly yelling "you will read Hegel and you will like it! Now!" The latter, in physical terms, might be more equivalent to "getting your shoulder nudged in a rude fashion."

Now I'm going to assume also that the question is referring to the most severe forms of each of these, because otherwise the question would be boring and lead to more wishy-washy answers. That's a little less solid of an assumption, though, so if the OP wants to clarify on that point that would be great. Anyway, so the most severe forms of "forcing you into a physical experience that you don't want to do" would involve bodily harm, up to and including death, right? So that would mean that to maintain equivalence between the two poll options, "forcing you into an idea you do not wish to entertain" would involve mental harm, up to and including psychic death or identity erasure, right?

If I'm right, then, and I'm not misunderstanding things dreadfully, then I think this should be made clear in the OP so as to produce better results and discussion.

/bored and restless
 

sprinkles

Mojibake
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
2,959
MBTI Type
INFJ
The first would probably be used to achieve the second, so.... I don't know. Both?
 

KDude

New member
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8,243
Either I'm not understanding correctly or everyone else has failed to properly interpret what "force me into a change of ideas" means. I mean, first of all it would make most sense to assume that the options in the poll are supposed to be of comparable severity, right? Otherwise the question would make as much sense as asking "would you rather be given a rose, or would you rather lick scum off of the ground?"

I'm making the best of it.. Not sure what the questions really mean either. I figured that I already mentally entertain a lot as it is.. if anything, to test plausibility or usefulness. Plus, I answered "Physical" simply because in my experience that's what has actually put me in a rage in the past. Nothing comes to mind for "Mental".
 

Orangey

Blah
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ESTP
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I'm making the best of it.. Not sure what the questions really mean either. I figured that I already mentally entertain a lot as it is.. if anything, to test plausibility or usefulness. Plus, I answered "Physical" simply because in my experience that's what has actually put me in a rage in the past. Nothing comes to mind for "Mental".

Brainwashing?
 

KDude

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Jan 26, 2010
Messages
8,243
Brainwashing?

Not sure what would cause it.

I think the only thing that mentally tortured me was..... me. I overdosed on shrooms. Long story short, I ended up in a psychotic state, was arrested, hospitalized.. the whole works. I made it through though. And now I'd say I'm the "Rocky" of mental torture. lol.. I don't know how to get into it, but it might take a lot to screw me over. It'd take less to make me anxious physically.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,988
Either I'm not understanding correctly or everyone else has failed to properly interpret what "force me into a change of ideas" means. I mean, first of all it would make most sense to assume that the options in the poll are supposed to be of comparable severity, right? Otherwise the question would make as much sense as asking "would you rather be given a rose, or would you rather lick scum off of the ground?"

So, assuming that the question is not stupid, that rules out any notions that "forcing into a physical experience" means "get your ass beat" (or the like) and "forcing into a change of ideas" means something like someone shrilly yelling "you will read Hegel and you will like it! Now!" The latter, in physical terms, might be more equivalent to "getting your shoulder nudged in a rude fashion."

Now I'm going to assume also that the question is referring to the most severe forms of each of these, because otherwise the question would be boring and lead to more wishy-washy answers. That's a little less solid of an assumption, though, so if the OP wants to clarify on that point that would be great. Anyway, so the most severe forms of "forcing you into a physical experience that you don't want to do" would involve bodily harm, up to and including death, right? So that would mean that to maintain equivalence between the two poll options, "forcing you into an idea you do not wish to entertain" would involve mental harm, up to and including psychic death or identity erasure, right?

If I'm right, then, and I'm not misunderstanding things dreadfully, then I think this should be made clear in the OP so as to produce better results and discussion.

/bored and restless

I took the question at face value (including the clarification in the OP). It sounded like an equivalent of the bold statement above.

I say this because, some people really strongly object to being asked ("forced" in their vernacular) to consider ideas in classrooms and such.

For instance, some people really dislike the idea of relativity. (For evidence of this see: http://www.conservapedia.com/Counterexamples_to_Relativity)
 

KDude

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Jan 26, 2010
Messages
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For instance, some people really dislike the idea of relativity. (For evidence of this see: http://www.conservapedia.com/Counterexamples_to_Relativity)

This could be a Fi thing (not that all Fi types would be this way, but...). I just can't see any Ti types that closed to ideas, on principle. They'd pick things apart, but not just push it away..like it'd give them cooties or something. This is a value thing.
 

sprinkles

Mojibake
Joined
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Messages
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INFJ
Brainwashing?

To me that crosses a physical boundary so it removes the distinction between the two.

The mind/body dichotomy is kind of erased when someone can directly mess with your mind.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
Isn't physical discomfort essentially a psychological one? Nobody likes to entertain the idea of having their limbs chopped off, nor do they enjoy the torment that missing limbs bring.
 

ygolo

My termites win
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Messages
5,988
Isn't physical discomfort essentially a psychological one? Nobody likes to entertain the idea of having their limbs chopped off, nor do they enjoy the torment that missing limbs bring.

A physical discomfort usually implies a psychological one as well. But they are not the same. The idea of getting limbs chopped off is different from actually getting them chopped off.
 

KDude

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I didn't even think about pain per se, but being forced into undesirable action or held hostage somehow (my examples in my original post suffice). I just saw the two as different kinds of power struggle, and what would be more aggravating.
 

Philosorapteuse

right on the left wing
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Messages
217
MBTI Type
INTP
I hate people trying to force me to think things. Or do things, at that, but especially think things. Ideas and suggestions have to take time to trickle through all my filters before they get their clearance. Sanity-checking and decontamination are mandatory before they're allowed to be built into my world framework. It's not that I'm not prepared to change my mind - I absolutely am - but there is a process and it takes time. Anyone trying to brute-force their way past that process gets a mental brick to the face.
 
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