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Two Perfect Addictions

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Since when is MBTI a form of therapy?

The rest of the OP seems to fit -- as long as you think you have a problem, you'll react as if you do whether the problem is real or not.

The issue I have here is that problems do exist.

It's when we overhype a problem that the problems start to stack.

Victor you make a few too many unreasonable jumps. Slow down. Think it through. Proof by induction is only effective if there are no other options.
 

Alesia

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
90
MBTI Type
INFP
"Just as MBTI is fake so psychological therapy is harmful"

Right. This sentence makes no sense. MBTI is not therapy. What's the point that is being made here? How are you even comparing MBTI and it's
"fakeness" or even talking about it? It's like saying "Just as all skinny models are fake, so stricknine is poisen."

Huh?:shock::huh:
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
7,263
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
MBTI CAN be a form of therapy for people, insofar as it makes people feel better about who they are, especially by way of resolving inner turmoil. MBTI gives people validation and makes them think they're not alone in the world. It also sheds light on thinking patterns that can be used to string together one's reactions and interactions, providing insight into one's nature.

Then there are people who commingle MBTI with their own identity. See:
spinoza.gif


:whistling:
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Okay, so MBTI is therapy just like brick laying or drinking might be therapeutic.

I was addressing victor's (unfair) classification... or... whatever it was he was trying to pull off there of MBTI.

I suppose in the case of someone selling MBTI as a form of therapy, the problematic symptoms would more likely and more easily arise naturally (in the case of an actual problem) than it taking place by coercion.

Psychotherapy in that case is valid, because the assumption of a problem, is in itself, psychological.

Take for example my uncle. He was consistently abused throughout his childhood. Incessant remarks about his failure without reciprocity for his successes assisted 3 divorces to encourage the notion that he truly is a failure, which cultivated depression. Real depression. "Kill yourself" depression. The kind where he just wouldn't show up to work, and was nearly fired, until my mother called in for him telling basically reciting the story I am now.

If psychotherapy (MBTI or otherwise) works to alleviate the depression -- a problem which was NOT caused by the notion of a possibility of a psychological disorder...

I think my point is pretty well substantiated. Victor's got a good point, and surely it holds true often enough for it to be worth mentioning, but I can't get on board with his black and white thinking.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
7,263
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Okay, so MBTI is therapy just like brick laying or drinking might be therapeutic.

I was addressing victor's (unfair) classification... or... whatever it was he was trying to pull off there of MBTI.

I suppose in the case of someone selling MBTI as a form of therapy, the problematic symptoms would more likely and more easily arise naturally (in the case of an actual problem) than it taking place by coercion.

Psychotherapy in that case is valid, because the assumption of a problem, is in itself, psychological.

Take for example my uncle. He was consistently abused throughout his childhood. Incessant remarks about his failure without reciprocity for his successes assisted 3 divorces to encourage the notion that he truly is a failure, which cultivated depression. Real depression. "Kill yourself" depression. The kind where he just wouldn't show up to work, and was nearly fired, until my mother called in for him telling basically reciting the story I am now.

If psychotherapy (MBTI or otherwise) works to alleviate the depression -- a problem which was NOT caused by the notion of a possibility of a psychological disorder...

I think my point is pretty well substantiated. Victor's got a good point, and surely it holds true often enough for it to be worth mentioning, but I can't get on board with his black and white thinking.

Yeah, I hear you on that. MBTI isn't always therapy, and not all therapy leads to more confusion or distress, like Victor claimed. I still think his whole post has a therapeutic flavor to it, anyway.
 

Haight

Doesn't Read Your Posts
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
6,232
MBTI Type
INTj
"Just as MBTI is fake so psychological therapy is harmful"

Right. This sentence makes no sense. MBTI is not therapy. What's the point that is being made here? How are you even comparing MBTI and it's
"fakeness" or even talking about it? It's like saying "Just as all skinny models are fake, so stricknine is poisen."

Huh?:shock::huh:
Welcome back, C2.
 

GZA

Resident Snot-Nose
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,771
MBTI Type
infp
Whats frustrating about Victor is his style of communication. His post are written and worded in a way that is vague enough to be bended in any direction the conversation may turn, which sometimes and maybe even often causes them to lose value or read like pseudo-philosphy. I think Victor has a lot of good ideas that are worth discussing, but his style makes it impossible to discuss. So all his threads turn into discussions about why no one wants to be in his threads.

Victor, stop making lame excuses and realize that if you want people to respond to your threads, you have to make them open to a large audience, and you have to make it feel open and wlecoming for other's thoughts. Clarity is key! If you want people to respect you and your ideas, then, ironically, the most important thing to do is not give a shit what people think about you. Express your ideas freely and confidently in a way that will allow people to understand them. Ever noticed how awesome people like that often are? They're fucking sexy. Action through inaction. Also, I don't want to start ranting, but put your ego aside for one second, please! You don't have to make a save every time someone shows a weakness in one of your ideas, and you especially don't need to turn that into a strength, as we say when Jennifer parodied you and you claimed it was a sign you were doing the right thing (or in your words, that you had "arrived"). Parody and criticism are often the hallmark of greatness, but they can also be the hallmark of poorness, too, if a bad thing can generate enough attention despite it's badness. Her parody exposed that your metaphor was not entirely accurate because it could also be directly applied to hard, factual science (in oppose to psychology's catagorization as "soft" science due to a lack of true physical, measurable evidence and the reliance on anecdotal evidence). You arn't just met with criticism and parody, you are often first met with a sometimes long period of complete indifference to your post (i.e. it often take s along time for anyone to respond to your stuff even after many people have viewed it). Indifference is the hallmark of mediocrity, and the criticism that follows I think is sincere and for the most part fairly reasonable (when done proporly and respectfully like I think Edahn mostly did), just as the praise you get is reasonable too (I really do think you have good ideas worth discussing, but you make it impossible for most people to discuss it and enjoy discussing it). My point is, you arn't bulletproof and need to stop coming up with reasons why other people are wrong and misguided while you are an all-knowing sage of some kind. You don't need to make it seem like every misstep is part of your plan of how to experience the forum (i.e. I am experiencing rejection and acceptance at the same time). You almost sound like a 14 year old who thinks they know more than adults and stubbornly watches their ideas and views collapse under the life experience their teachers and parents have (i.e. me when I was 14 :doh: And still sometimes today :doh::doh: Maybe I'm doing it right now (and I'm curious as a dog as to how you'll try to use that to dismiss me easily)). You're wasting your mind with this shit! Do you want to have good discussions, or do you want to distance yourself from people and even your own goals (which seem to be interaction and respect). You can be unique and accessible at the same time; it's your ideas that are unique and important, not how you dress them up. This isn't a fashion show. Any problems you have here are self imposed, as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: I'd like to add that even if I find your style of posting frustrating to communicate with, I really do appreciate the effort to be unique and interesting even if I don't think it's a very effective effort. What makes this forum great is the variation in ideas and points of views and styles.


I think therapy is appropriate in extreme cases. I agree with you that it can be used by some to convince themselves they have something wrong with them and thus actually cause problems, but as others have said extreme problems require therapy to be solved. MBTI is certainly not good for therapy and probably isn't legitimate psychology anyway, but rather an impeccable tool to help understand people and yourself better. It isn't fact or science, but a good theory to help understand people.

Does therapy work? Does medicine work? Yes. They both work when done proporly with the right patient. However, things change. You can cure some mental issues, some emotional issues, but others can still come up depending on what life throws at you. A new catalyst could come up to throw you into emotional breakdown. Just because you cured depression when you were 18 doesn't mean you won't become bipolar or schizophrenic when you're 40. You can break your leg and watch the bone heal, but that doesn't mean you are automatically prevented from any other breakage or health issue. So, I think your statement that if therapy worked we wouldn't need the books should be replaced with "if life was consistent we wouldn't need to produce book after book after book". Life meaning both an individuals life and life in general, like how different people react differently to different methods, especially in psychology.

Good night!
 
Last edited:

matmos

Active member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
1,714
MBTI Type
NICE
Hey, can I stand out on a limb on this 3rd person discussion on my old mate Victor.

Lots of stuff has been said with reference to the Vic's style. I PM-ed him the other night and he seems a reasonable enough guy.

It's obvious what he's trying to do is generate a meaningful conversation; even by his own admission, by *marginal trolling* - a phrase I quite like.

I think Vic is mad as a hatter - in a nice way - but he does have some nuggets of gold if you care to read between the lines.

The probs these days is that everybody takes everything so personally and seriously. In that respect Victor is absolutely correct: many fora are essentially narcissistic havens for characters that take themselves far too seriously. There's a serious lack of straight-faced irony.

Probably Victor sees the bigger picture clearer than most people here because he is not one of the gang. He clearly does not accept the assumptions we all do and prods them out in the open. No bad thing, if you ask me.

And I tried one of his *green smoothies* last night. Not bad if you wash it down with lager. Organic lager, of course.
 

sriv

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
418
MBTI Type
JIxT
Look who's talking.

Hello, Sriv:hi:

Don't worry, I've been on it for as long as I can remember.

:hi: bananatrombones, how are you? Me? I'm fine. How are you feeling? Good, you say? That's nice to hear.
 
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