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Why Spend Large Amounts of Time Around a Philosophy or World View You Hate?

Philosorapteuse

right on the left wing
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True. However, there are deeper areas of analysis that start from counterfactuals. It starts to break into epistemological questions - how is it that I know this is true? How is it that I can know this is true? Eventually, you may get to the point where it seems that any sort of functioning in this universe requires a suspension of disbelief on some level.

Possibly, but one of the important things going on there is the understanding that you think something to be one way, while the possibility still exists for it to be another. Ultimately, you cannot make any absolute claim to knowing the truth. You only can believe something based on particular evidence. That's the linkage, IMO.

Perhaps. But then, we employ that kind of counterfactual understanding every day - it's certainly reasoning, but I'm not sure it merits the extra mantle of "critical thinking". I'm more inclined to cast creating the counterfactual as being creating the "environment" in which the real critical thinking can take place. But I think we're just arguing labels at this point really :)
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
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Mar 23, 2012
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Im going to just shove a nice cliche quote in here which may or may not reflect my views:

“Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.

And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”

- Current Dalai Lama

Although im not entirely sure of the line: "Man surprised me most about humanity"
 

onemoretime

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Perhaps. But then, we employ that kind of counterfactual understanding every day - it's certainly reasoning, but I'm not sure it merits the extra mantle of "critical thinking". I'm more inclined to cast creating the counterfactual as being creating the "environment" in which the real critical thinking can take place. But I think we're just arguing labels at this point really :)

That may be true. On the other hand, I think the critical part comes where you recognize your own biases, and how they constitute a suspension of disbelief. For example, taking on faith that the information conveyed by your senses is accurate or comprehensive.
 

Philosorapteuse

right on the left wing
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That may be true. On the other hand, I think the critical part comes where you recognize your own biases, and how they constitute a suspension of disbelief. For example, taking on faith that the information conveyed by your senses is accurate or comprehensive.

Ah yes, I'd agree that that level of analysis counts :)
 

RaptorWizard

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Everything we love and hate is something we care about, whereas if we feel neither love nor hate, we care nothing. This is why emotions, or the affects control mankind by pulling the strings of his passions.
 
X

xxEnoMorph

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Maybe to see if eventually the userbase can prove the disbeliever wrong.
 

Ivy

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Does hipsterism count?

Hipsterism is a religion to which you got to be devout. Must be seen as in between unpopular and hated or else get excommunicated.
-mcfrontalot
 

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
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Actually, linking critical thinking and the suspension of disbelief is a minor act of genius. It is seminal and leads to whole fields of insight and interesting new questions.

Sneering at me seems a little jeune.

You're Seminol? :unsure: I didn't know that.
 

Qlip

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Maybe to see if eventually the userbase can prove the disbeliever wrong.

Is this using the logic that if that 1000 people can't make me think I'm wrong, then I must be right?
 
X

xxEnoMorph

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Is this using the logic that if that 1000 people can't make me think I'm wrong, then I must be right?

Something like that.

The only negative scenario that can come out is the person in question is wrong but the userbase is still not capable of proving it. In that situation it's the userbase's fault and not the theory. Either way the person ends up leaving with an idea the idea is wrong. If he's wrong then at least he's not stuck around a userbase that doesn't understand it.
 

Qlip

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Something like that.

The only negative scenario that can come out is the person in question is wrong but the userbase is still not capable of proving it. In that situation it's the userbase's fault and not the theory. Either way the person ends up leaving with an idea the idea is wrong. If he's wrong then at least he's not stuck around a userbase that doesn't understand it.

This is true, and useful for somebody who is willing to actually allow for new information. I just see a lot of people with the same idea who's valuation of truth is who has the last comeback or who is more stubborn. Those guys stick around a lot longer and rile people up on the forums more than people with a more objective goal. They don't leave.
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
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This is true, and useful for somebody who is willing to actually allow for new information. I just see a lot of people with the same idea who's valuation of truth is who has the last comeback or who is more stubborn. Those guys stick around a lot longer and rile people up on the forums more than people with a more objective goal. They don't leave.

HELLO THAR!!

Dont worry I just though you were describing me.
 

Mole

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Do you talk this way in real life? That would be interesting to see.

The world needs a bit more verbal poetry.

The content of any medium is the previous medium. So, for instance, the content of movies is theatre.

And so the content of the internet is real life.
 

Mole

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Do you talk this way in real life? That would be interesting to see.

The world needs a bit more verbal poetry.

The content of the book is speech. And now the content of the internet is the book.

Just look - the book consists of print, while the internet consists of electronic print.

And so the content of the internet is real life.

Real life has not gone away, it has been transformed by the internet.

And just as real life has been transformed by the internet, so are we transformed by the internet.
 

Mole

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Do you talk this way in real life? That would be interesting to see.

The world needs a bit more verbal poetry.

The internet distracts our mind, numbs us, so the internet can transform our senses.

For instance, the book transformed our senses by privileging the eye, and gave us for instance, perspective, while the internet to our surprise democratises all the senses.

We lie here on the table of the internet, anaesthetised, while our senses are operated on, unbeknownst to us.

We are becoming new creatures while our minds are distracted by the myriad topics on the forums.
 

Thalassa

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Yeah, but how many times do you need to hear the same possibility screamed at you in every thread you go into, even if the thread is not about typology, and not really tailored to the discussion in question so that it integrates rationally into it? For a period of literally a few years? What if it was someone who constantly yelled, "Red meat will lead to heart attacks!!" in any thread regardless of the topic? The point might be generally true and not a bad thing to consider, but does that change the fact how ridiculous and pointless the delivery might be?

I'm not a moron; tell me once or twice, and I'll work the idea into my thinking, if it makes sense. More than that, it just becomes white noise and headache-inducing.

This.
 

Qlip

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HELLO THAR!!

Dont worry I just though you were describing me.

Hah. No, I guess I haven't noticed that you were on some sort of mission. Should I have been describing you?
 
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