Why Spend Large Amounts of Time Around a Philosophy or World View You Hate?

[entropie]

[MENTION=4109]entropie[/MENTION] Precisely, there's enough real BS to be against. Even if MBTI were insidious (and of course it is, that's why I'm here), it still ranks way below the chicken nugget in world influence. In a worse case scenario, even sillier than a minority people who falsely classify other people is the people who have decided to spend a significant amount of time dogging them. But, whatever, I do silly worthless things, but I don't mind admitting that they are silly and worthless.

Spoken like a true ENFP

The point is [MENTION=6877]Marmie Dearest[/MENTION], use your beautiful head and useful SP energy not for things that make you angry and dont help you yourself in your life. Come to the bright side of life, smile, live and let live cause God hates fags and that wont ever change

 

[Mole]

There is some middleground between preaching to the converted and partycrashing every single mass in your neighborhood Catholic church to burn an effigy of Benedict XVI.

I've failed to convert you, dear Red Herring, although I have tried and tried and tried.

You have though inspired me to partycrash a mass and burn an effigy of Benedict XVI. So far I have only managed to nail to the front door a message saying, "The hierarchy abuses the human rights of women", and it was immediately taken down amid much muttering and scandalised looks.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I can't speak for all of them, but taking a few examples in mind on Typology Central, like [MENTION=3325]Victor[/MENTION] for example who does not put much value into MBTI or rather wants to point out the limitations and dangers of completely adhering to such an incomplete and subjective system. He takes the role of whispering in our ears that any one view is not neccesarily the only view. Teaching people to have consideration and recognition of views not neccesarily their own.

I find that role to be an important one in all groups/cliques that discuss the subjective.

Although I can understand not everyone might feel so accepting to that role, and that I have it easy being a Ti-dom who wants to consider every possibility naturally.

 

[sprinkles]

I think some people were at one point genuinely interested, but got tired of pervasive frivolity and posturing.

One example is bringing up types every chance one gets and posturing themselves in relation to it. You can be talking about cats and someone will tangentially type you to your face, and it really has nothing to do with anything - it's just an excuse to throw out type knowledge.

I went from thinking that typology is awesome to thinking it is full of crap to being on the fence about it, but I kind of had to stop caring to accomplish that. At first I thought I was INTJ and was enamored with the profile, but because I wanted to be a type I started to be somebody I wasn't and it really screwed me up. So I abandoned typology for a while until I found my true spontaneous self, I believe, and I'm starting to have a little more interest in it.

 

[Thalassa]

I think some people were at one point genuinely interested, but got tired of pervasive frivolity and posturing.

One example is bringing up types every chance one gets and posturing themselves in relation to it. You can be talking about cats and someone will tangentially type you to your face, and it really has nothing to do with anything - it's just an excuse to throw out type knowledge.

I went from thinking that typology is awesome to thinking it is full of crap to being on the fence about it, but I kind of had to stop caring to accomplish that. At first I thought I was INTJ and was enamored with the profile, but because I wanted to be a type I started to be somebody I wasn't and it really screwed me up. So I abandoned typology for a while until I found my true spontaneous self, I believe, and I'm starting to have a little more interest in it.

I'm referring more to people who actively rail against it while staying in the same community, especially if it's not a dire life and death issue. Like really, believing in type theory isn't going to start any wars, get anyone raped, or contribute to global warming.

Or like a guy on a European cultural site I know suddenly made a thread one day that said "I am no longer a white nationalist!" And the site isn't even a white nationalist site, he just sounded like a complete moron, because the truth was he was a self-professed hater of non-whites, then projected this on to anyone who belonged to the European cultural site, apparently even if they were Islamic or liberals, because he said so, they must have all been crazed white supremacists and he had been freed from his chains, and wanted to share this liberation with others.

Talk about massive facepalm.

And I kind of feel the same about people who say they've been "liberated" from Jungian type theory. I'm just like wow if you ever took typology that seriously that it caused serious damage to your life because of believing in it, there's something wrong with you, and it has nothing to do with the fact that other people like MBTI.

Beware of typology, it heralds the next holocaust.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'm referring more to people who actively rail against it while staying in the same community, especially if it's not a dire life and death issue. Like really, believing in type theory isn't going to start any wars, get anyone raped, or contribute to global warming.

Or like a guy on a European cultural site I know suddenly made a thread one day that said "I am no longer a white nationalist!" And the site isn't even a white nationalist site, he just sounded like a complete moron, because the truth was he was a self-professed hater of non-whites, then projected this on to anyone who belonged to the European cultural site, apparently even if they were Islamic or liberals, because he said so, they must have all been crazed white supremacists and he had been freed from his chains, and wanted to share this liberation with others.

Talk about massive facepalm.

And I kind of feel the same about people who say they've been "liberated" from Jungian type theory. I'm just like wow if you ever took typology that seriously that it caused serious damage to your life because of believing in it, there's something wrong with you, and it has nothing to do with the fact that other people like MBTI.

Beware of typology, it heralds the next holocaust.

I just tried to never take MBTI that seriously in the first place.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I can think of two reasons I would do something like this.

1) It can be interesting to listen to people with a totally different point of view. Even if you're arguing with them and will probably never come to see things their way, there's still ways it creates insights. In fact, sometimes by arguing with people of opposite beliefs I have better understood and refined my own beliefs in things.

2) It's practice. You have to keep the rhetorical knives sharp, you know?

As far as I'm concerned, as long as the content of the argument itself is sound, I don't see any problem with this. This throws back to that 4th of July thread. Some people found it so offensive to criticize the USA in that thread, but I just didn't get it.

Now if the argument isn't sound, I feel differently. But unsound arguments are a problem no matter what they are about and one expects a plethora of unsound arguments that are perfectly on board with the theme of a forum. I don't see a reason to only single out the ones that go against the grain.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Being on a website with mostly liberals keeps me sharp.

 

[Thalassa]

Being on a website with mostly liberals keeps me sharp.

This place is reasonably liberal, though. I went to Personality Cafe and had an experience with the liberals there that turned me moderate, no joke, I don't think I realized how horrific extremist liberal groupthink can be (in the wealthy, civilized West, not totalitarian communist dictatorships in the East) until I went to Personality Cafe.

This place is only mildly liberal in comparison, with a very strong bent toward libertarianism. I do find it good to be open to other viewpoints, for example I am around some people who are nationalists, fascists, and right wingers on another site ...but on the other hand I wouldn't go all the way to a place like Stormfront where I'd be around crazies all day and attempt to become a beloved member with an active voice of dissent, I would just find that absurd.

Also, politics matter more than typology. If you've got a campaign against typology, perhaps it might behoove you to study world economics or something a little more serious to invest your revolutionary energies into. As far as I'm considered, railing against typology is right up there with preaching about preparing for the zombie apocalypse.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

This place is reasonably liberal

I guess I'd agree.

 

[WALMART]

You can't hate what you don't know, right?

 

[Fluffywolf]

You can't hate what you don't know, right?

But you can hate the fact you don't know it.

 

[WALMART]

But you can hate the fact you don't know it.

Aye.

I lurked a religion/philosophy forum as an agnostic for a long time, heated debates with theists of all walks have made me what I am today. Had I not slept with the lions I'd still be a cub.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Aye.

I lurked a religion/philosophy forum as an agnostic for a long time, heated debates with theists of all walks have made me what I am today. Had I not slept with the lions I'd still be a cub.

Hmm, I usually find that debating (heatedly) with Theists is rather counter-productive. I much prefer to debate with theists that are above all comfortable with their own beliefs and are able to entertain the notion of other possible beliefs, or lack of beliefs thereof without going into whatever inferior function they possess. And find out their reasons for why they believe. Not many theists (or atheist or even agnostics) can do that though.

I could never be on a forum like you speak of and last very long.

 

[Wolfie]

Does hipsterism count?

 

[Giggly]

Boredom.

 

[Mole]

The Suspension of Disbelief and Critical Thinking

Learning to think critically is like developing our thinking muscles - it's pleasurable to exercise them.

Of course this is annoying for those who believe uncritically.

This annoying for those who believe rather than suspend their disbelief.

Belief is largely involuntary, while the suspension of disbelief is voluntary.

And belief is largely for children or those with the minds of children, while the suspension of disbelief is for the mature mind.

And of course the suspension of disbelief can't be achieved without first learning to think critically.

 

[entropie]

Learning to think critically is like developing our thinking muscles - it's pleasurable to exercise them.

Was that a pun meant to say men only think with their dicks ?

 

[Qlip]

Learning to think critically is like developing our thinking muscles - it's pleasurable to exercise them.

Of course this is annoying for those who believe uncritically.

This annoying for those who believe rather than suspend their disbelief.

Belief is largely involuntary, while the suspension of disbelief is voluntary.

And belief is largely for children or those with the minds of children, while the suspension of disbelief is for the mature mind.

And of course the suspension of disbelief can't be achieved without first learning to think critically.

If you taught a course on critical thinking at the local community college, I'd probably enroll for a laugh.

 

[Totenkindly]

Although I can understand not everyone might feel so accepting to that role, and that I have it easy being a Ti-dom who wants to consider every possibility naturally.

Yeah, but how many times do you need to hear the same possibility screamed at you in every thread you go into, even if the thread is not about typology, and not really tailored to the discussion in question so that it integrates rationally into it? For a period of literally a few years? What if it was someone who constantly yelled, "Red meat will lead to heart attacks!!" in any thread regardless of the topic? The point might be generally true and not a bad thing to consider, but does that change the fact how ridiculous and pointless the delivery might be?

I'm not a moron; tell me once or twice, and I'll work the idea into my thinking, if it makes sense. More than that, it just becomes white noise and headache-inducing.