People who say they will change

[Saslou]

No-one usually changes because you've asked them to, only because they wanted to so either we hang around hoping the change will come sooner rather than later or remove ourselves from their lives and wish them the best of luck.
I stuck around far too long and nothing changed, lol. Back then, my boundaries (if i had any) were so blurred because i kept on listening to him and trusting his word so i ended up becoming the crazy one. I found the best way for him to change (if that's what he wanted) was to get the hell away. If someone else wants to deal with it, great but there comes a time when enough is enough.

 

[Sparrow]

Slowly back away if it's to much for you or unhealthy for you! I left my ex boyfriend when I lived in California (we were together for 4 years) and it was the best thing for both of us. He called me last year telling me about how he realized that his way of thinking and how he treated me was wrong. His new relationship is a healthy one, I am so glad for him! If I would have stuck around I don't think anything would have changed, he never would have learned.

 

[Poki]

Slowly back away if it's to much for you or unhealthy for you! I left my ex boyfriend when I lived in California (we were together for 4 years) and it was the best thing for both of us. He called me last year telling me about how he realized that his way of thinking and how he treated me was wrong. His new relationship is a healthy one, I am so glad for him! If I would have stuck around I don't think anything would have changed, he never would have learned.

yes, sometimes people hang on to things unhealthily and all the do is make excuses. The difference between an excuse and a reason is when you give in to the reason the thing stops...an excuse is nothing but fake...and when you give in nothing changes...it was simply an excuse, not a reason. Been there done that, excuses are draining and a waste of time to submit others to.

 

[Elfa]

I've never been in a situation like that, but I've seen my father passing through a similar situation. The person would say she would change, but she didn't, and they stayed together for 11 years, in a sad and unhealthy relationship - he waiting for her to change. Then he broke up with her and he has never been happier. Anyway, I'll say what I think about this kind of situation.

What I think is that when you stay with her, in spite of her acting in a way that you don't like, you kinda send the message that it's ok for her to act the way she does. Even when you say you don't like it and you can't stand her, you act like you can stand her by staying with her. That way, the result of her being innapropriate is a good thing (you staying with her), so she keeps doing it (or she has no reason to stop it). If the result of being invasive is having you to defriend her, maybe she will notice that her actions (and it's results) are really bad. After her seeing that, we cannot be sure of her actions. Maybe she'll take the therapist seriously, maybe she'll attempt suicide, maybe she'll find another person like you and keep doing the same... I'm sorry, but I don't know.

Other thing is that she shouldn't be of your responsability. If respecting yourself is backing away from her, maybe you should do it; not because of her, but because of you...

 

[FunnyDigestion]

It's always easier to talk about something than to do it. Unfortunately, I have some history of not following my own advice, & not keeping to vows. It's always embarrassing to realize you completely didn't do what you said you would.

Regarding your situation, I'm not sure. I know one feature of borderline personality is making wild promises only to forget them immediately afterward. But I would at least give a chance.

 

[TenebrousReflection]

People with serious psychological issues, harmful patterns of behaviour, etc, which affect themselves and those around them... It's so easy to say that you will change. Doing it is another thing.

In your experience, with the people who say "I'll change...I know I can do this...you'll see, I can change. If you just stick around a bit longer you'll see I will change." Do they usually end up changing? How long do you stick around? How much do you let yourself be damaged by their behaviour before you call it a day? What does it take for them to change? Does it tend to help if you - their friend, SO, or whatever the relationship may be - leave them behind after explaining that their behaviour is too harmful? Is that a positive motivation?

My comments are from the other side of the issue - a person wanting and trying to change.

For a little over 3 months I have been trying to make a few changes for the better (the end of a my engagement was partially due to these factors - improving social awareness, manners (and Fe in general), being more attentive to the wants and needs of others, being less stubborn, being more open and a few other things like that). I have come to the point where I acknowledge that these are things that will make me a better person, so I've convinced myself that no matter the results, they are still good things to work toward, but having support and feedback from the person that brought those flaws to me attention is something I see as very valuable and important. when I feel like I'm lacking that support and feedback, my motivation diminishes - I want to know if I'm making progress that is noticeable or not, but I also recognize that a person can act like they are a changed person and it can be hard to tell the difference between someone who is genuinely a changed person (which is an internal change in how one perceives things and reacts to them) or simply changing on the surface to appease someone so it can be very difficult to give that feedback I desire. What I'm not sure about is how much of the changes I have made will be permanent or if I will be prone to reverting to my old ways if I continue to feel unsupported in the effort (the feeling that my efforts don't really matter and don't make a difference to the person that matters to me). In my case I feel like I have made progress in changing my perceptions and outlook on a number of things, but I still feel like I have a ways to go before the changes really become instinctual rather than conscious decisions.

My questions in this regard are...

How does one convey the sincerity of their desire to change?
How does one prove that the changes one have made are from the heart and not just acting?

 

[miss fortune]

from the other side of things a bit:

sometimes you realize that you're headed the wrong way and you're making bad decisions and harming those around you and you genuinely WANT to change, but every time you try something happens and you keep getting dragged back into that... you can even genuinely WANT to change and know that you have to but at the same time you feel that you CAN'T escape- change is hard, very, very hard... people CAN change though

I'd take promises of the sort as empty until I see results though... I made enough and fell through on them before to know all about that

 

[Mole]

Every drug addict I have met has told me they want to give up drugs, but they just need a little time, a little help and a little money.

After a while I realised I was being had. But the saddest thing was to see the loving parents suckered in time and time again and never able to say no.

 

[miss fortune]

^but they CAN change... you just have to be careful... not even addicts want to be addicts

 

[highlander]

People with serious psychological issues, harmful patterns of behaviour, etc, which affect themselves and those around them... It's so easy to say that you will change. Doing it is another thing.

In your experience, with the people who say "I'll change...I know I can do this...you'll see, I can change. If you just stick around a bit longer you'll see I will change." Do they usually end up changing? How long do you stick around? How much do you let yourself be damaged by their behaviour before you call it a day? What does it take for them to change? Does it tend to help if you - their friend, SO, or whatever the relationship may be - leave them behind after explaining that their behaviour is too harmful? Is that a positive motivation?

It sounds a bit exhausting. I don't usually give up easily but once in a while I've run into people who after trying for some period of time, I just can't deal with anymore. There was one a couple years ago that was extremely emotionally reactive, delusional in her thinking, exhibited constant self-aggrandizing behavior, thinking the worst of others motivations, devious, etc. I'm sure she suffered from some kind of mental illness. I tried really hard to get along with her and help her but in the end found that the best strategy was to stay as far away from her as possible. She was like cancer. Everyone I talked to thought she was wacked so I wasn't the only person. Eventually, she was fired which we were all thankful for. Some people who are really messed up are just better to stay away from. In your case, it sounds like an underlying medical condition may be at the root of it but to some extent, you do have to operate from the mode of self preservation.

 

[SilkRoad]

Thank you all for the thoughts - I have been reading all of them, I just haven't gotten around to responding to them... but they are interesting and appreciated...

 

[River]

Well, in my case this thread was partially (largely) inspired by a "friendship". Someone considerably younger than me - I've been more of a mentor to her though she wants to view it as an equal friendship. (I had friendships when I was her age - ie. 20 - with people 15 years or more older, so it can be done.) She has Borderline Personality Disorder traits. Extremely clingy, tries to introduce herself into all aspects of my life, very invasive, doesn't respect boundaries, etc etc. I've had talks with her about her behaviour to the point of becoming physically ill over it, have set firm boundaries, etc. And it's just, I don't think she's able to respect my boundaries. She may want to - she claims to want to - but the behaviour consistently indicates otherwise. And I'm tired of the conflict. It's no lie when they say INFJs can become ill from constant conflict. not to speak of the fact that it's not much fun having your boundaries constantly disrespected and violated.

So I'm thinking to tell her that the "friendship" is off, effectively, and we need to move it to the level of acquaintanceship. (I can't cut her out completely as I see her semi-regularly). This, of course, is exactly what she fears and will confirm her worst fears - ie. the worst fears that make her so clingy and unbearable to be around. But I've been negotiating with her like this, and having constant conflicts (to the point of screaming "leave me alone" at her because she'd followed me and wouldn't go even when I calmly asked her to leave), for a year and a half.

It's a completely different ball game, but I suppose I also had in mind the abusive spouse who constantly says he/she will change. There can be threats to life and limb there and so I don't think giving people indefinite chances is a good idea.

I'm going to advocate a doorslam here. Simply put this person is poison to you.

Having to see her semi-regularly is an excuse, having to see someone does not mean having to interact.

The burden of carrying this person is a stone around your neck. It is making you ill. Sticking around is only giving her approval for her behaviour and reducing the chance of change.


Letting go can be damn hard but this relationship is not worth it for either of you.

Hard to be sure how much I'm projecting here as been there, done that, spent time being ill because of it (so not just an INFJ thing =p) My mother actually. Disowning her is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. Dear god how much lighter i felt afterwards. After i left she actually got therapy, ditched the abusive boyfriend and has cleaned up her life significantly. I'll never trust her again. Have to see her unfortunately for another 7years or so at least as i have siblings still at home. But... i get it. You may feel responsible, the only thing preventing her from falling. Tough as it may be to accept if she does try and suicide if you walk away it may actually get her the help she needs.




Just...


Things might go better if you write her a letter and hand it over when telling her the friendship is ending. Saves the hysterical shouting match with a simple "my reasons are within" followed by a quick exit. Gives her something to look over later and perhaps show to the therapist as well.


Good luck.