The Upside of Being an Introvert

[Salomé]

I am highly critical of seeing E or I as biological, I'ld be very careful in making such a statement. From my personal experience I've lived thru phases of high extroversion and through phases of high introversion, there wasnt really a clear line to me. There are times I'ld clearly say I am an E and times I'ld clearly say I am an I. There may be some truth to a biological connection but to prove that is as difficult as for example proving if homosexuality is nature or nurture.

You have to be neither careful nor highly critical. The science has been done and is compelling.

It is a continuum. If you are not distinctly one or the other, you are somewhere in the middle. Nothing complicated about that.

 

[entropie]

You have to be neither careful nor highly critical. The science has been done and is compelling.

It is a continuum. If you are not distinctly one or the other, you are somewhere in the middle. Nothing complicated about that.

Ok so this is about knowing what science says not my opinion. Then I've to pass cause the only two books I ever read were the playboy and my cars manual. I am not so good in just believing stuff without a reflection against my personal experiences, what is probably the classical definition of an extrovert.

I dont even know why you are unhappy, I am an extrovert thinking overdone sociality is dumb and being judged for not being as social as everyone else is dumb as well. Thats what you want is it not ? or dont you know what you want, is that the problem ? :/

To me the whole discussion ended when the op said "The largest group out there are ambiverts", cause then its really about preference. To me its a concious decision everyone has to make, whether he wants to be seen as extrovert or doesnt want to be seen at all. Young people often do not have a lot of experience in life or havent met a lot of people. When they meet peers at their age in school and kindergarten, often there are already those who have more experience, cause their parents maybe showed them around or they were raised more extrovertly. Every so called "introverted kid" then has a decision, do I try and learn and get as extroverted as anyone else or am I not intrested in others and rather do my own stuff.

the sad truth is that the majority of all those introverted kids, rather wants to be an extrovert but they never try to change themselves or better themselves, instead they become arrogant or angry or whatever. Thats what I meant with social dynamic. You cant just run around and say its biological whether your I or E when there are so much more variables in that equation.

I am not saying it has nothing to do with biological. When I think of my girlfriends sisters daughter, she is only age 3 and yes you can call her introverted. So there is definitly a biological side. But I am convinced the social dynamic outweighs the biological side. its my personal very idealistic opinion, I have no proof for that.

I hope I didnt offend anyone here. Since we got Hitler germans aint sold so easily to new things, so we can be very passive aggressive, stubborn and practical. Thats prolly why you wont find Jung in any library here that claims to be good .

 

[Salomé]

Ok so this is about knowing what science says not my opinion. Then I've to pass cause the only two books I ever read were the playboy and my cars manual. I am not so good in just believing stuff without a reflection against my personal experiences, what is probably the classical definition of an extrovert.

I guess there's not much I can say to that..

I dont even know why you are unhappy, I am an extrovert thinking overdone sociality is dumb and being judged for not being as social as everyone else is dumb as well. Thats what you want is it not ? or dont you know what you want, is that the problem ? :/

What? I'm not unhappy. You are the only person who has expressed any kind of emotion in this conversation...
Really, the projection that goes on around here is highly entertaining.

To me the whole discussion ended when the op said "The largest group out there are ambiverts", cause then its really about preference. To me its a concious decision everyone has to make, whether he wants to be seen as extrovert or doesnt want to be seen at all.

No.

 

[entropie]

Ok, but we definitly found out who is I and who is E

 

[Salomé]

Yes. I find very little reward in repetition.

 

[entropie]

me neither, I only do it when I have the feeling people dont understand me. But being able to actually delve into the world of another person and develop a theory together with him to see if it holds or breaks, instead of quoting only the book or only presenting the own standpoint, is a quality worth to be learnt in life. Even my gf can do that, tho she is hardcore introvert and hates my repetitions even more.

I am just saying, its not like introverts would be perfect. Every choice has a negative side as well.

 

[Southern Kross]

I dont even know why you are unhappy, I am an extrovert thinking overdone sociality is dumb and being judged for not being as social as everyone else is dumb as well. Thats what you want is it not ? or dont you know what you want, is that the problem ? :/

It's difficult to explain. There are so many situations where you feel you must conform, lie, or dodge a question because you know you will be judged if you don't. A single judgement isn't absolutely devastating but it begins to take it's toll when you feel you must constantly apologise for your nature.

It's like how every Friday, everyone I have a passing conversation with (shop assistants, work mates, people I bump into etc) will ask me about my plans for the weekend; which IME almost always means "which party are you going to?" or "who are you going clubbing with?". Every time I have to think of a way to dodge this question because I know "staying at home" (regardless of what I'm doing) is not socially appropriate answer; in fact this is code for "I'm a pathetic loser" or "I have no life" or "No one will be friends with me". It doesn't matter that I'm perfectly happy being at home alone; I feel like this is a secret that I have to keep from the general public. And regardless of how dumb and inaccurate those views are, I really don't like people having that impression of me.

To me the whole discussion ended when the op said "The largest group out there are ambiverts", cause then its really about preference. To me its a concious decision everyone has to make, whether he wants to be seen as extrovert or doesnt want to be seen at all. Young people often do not have a lot of experience in life or havent met a lot of people. When they meet peers at their age in school and kindergarten, often there are already those who have more experience, cause their parents maybe showed them around or they were raised more extrovertly. Every so called "introverted kid" then has a decision, do I try and learn and get as extroverted as anyone else or am I not intrested in others and rather do my own stuff.

the sad truth is that the majority of all those introverted kids, rather wants to be an introvert but they never try to change themselves or better themselves, they rather become arrogant or angry or whatever. Thats what I meant with social dynamic. You cant just run around and say its biological whether your I or E when there are so much more variables in that equation.

I'm very introverted (and rather shy as well), but believe me I have tried so hard. On many occasions I'm figuratively holding a gun to my own head to make me walk into that party. I'm extremely tough on myself to make an effort, all the while fighting the overwhelming instinct to run desperately in the opposite direction. This is not something I blame on others. I know that when I force myself to go to things, I often have a good time. I know that these instincts are wrong/inaccurate and I know that my anti-social behaviour is unhealthy. Unfortunately this doesn't make it any easier.

I think you also have to realise that sometimes it doesn't look like the introvert is trying. A strong introvert trying really hard to be social can come across to an extrovert as a half-assed attempt. Me not trying is something few people see, because when that happens, I'm gone; I'm not even in that room at all.

 

[Salomé]

Even my gf can do that, tho she is hardcore introvert and hates my repetitions even more.

Wow. I guess she must be very long-suffering too.

 

[Forever_Jung]

It's like how every Friday, everyone I have a passing conversation with (shop assistants, work mates, people I bump into etc) will ask me about my plans for the weekend; which IME almost always means "which party are you going to?" or "who are you going clubbing with?". Every time I have to think of a way to dodge this question because I know "staying at home" (regardless of what I'm doing) is not socially appropriate answer; in fact this is code for "I'm a pathetic loser" or "I have no life" or "No one will be friends with me". It doesn't matter that I'm perfectly happy being at home alone; I feel like this is a secret that I have to keep from the general public. And regardless of how dumb and inaccurate those views are, I really don't like people having that impression of me.

Yeah! Even when people are nice about it, it's still kind of embarrassing. I will say: "I'm just staying at home, I'll probably read." Their faces fall but then they quickly recover and say something like: "oh yeah, sometimes I feel like a homebody too." Their excitement about discussing plans disappears and they walk away and end the conversation.

I'm very introverted (and rather shy as well), but believe me I have tried so hard. On many occasions I'm figuratively holding a gun to my own head to make me walk into that party. I'm extremely tough on myself to make an effort, all the while fighting the overwhelming instinct to run desperately in the opposite direction.

Haha! I too feel like I put a gun to my head to be more social. I pace back in forth, trying to psyche myself up for some sort of social occasion beforehand. I like to think of it as "showtime" and try to approach it like a theatrical performance. It's a simple matter of stage fright.

I know I'll probably enjoy myself, but it's so much easier to just stay in my comfort zone and stay at home.

 

[Randomnity]

It's difficult to explain. There are so many situations where you feel you must conform, lie, or dodge a question because you know you will be judged if you don't. A single judgement isn't absolutely devastating but it begins to take it's toll when you feel you must constantly apologise for your nature.

It's like how every Friday, everyone I have a passing conversation with (shop assistants, work mates, people I bump into etc) will ask me about my plans for the weekend; which IME almost always means "which party are you going to?" or "who are you going clubbing with?". Every time I have to think of a way to dodge this question because I know "staying at home" (regardless of what I'm doing) is not socially appropriate answer; in fact this is code for "I'm a pathetic loser" or "I have no life" or "No one will be friends with me". It doesn't matter that I'm perfectly happy being at home alone; I feel like this is a secret that I have to keep from the general public. And regardless of how dumb and inaccurate those views are, I really don't like people having that impression of me.

My standard answer is "just taking it easy/relaxing" which seems to go over well.

 

[Usehername]

My standard answer is "just taking it easy/relaxing" which seems to go over well.

you are a regular genius.

 

[Southern Kross]

Yeah! Even when people are nice about it, it's still kind of embarrassing. I will say: "I'm just staying at home, I'll probably read." Their faces fall but then they quickly recover and say something like: "oh yeah, sometimes I feel like a homebody too." Their excitement about discussing plans disappears and they walk away and end the conversation.

Exactly. It's failing to adhere to a social norm and we're made to feel it. I can't be myself because that makes other people uncomfortable.

My standard answer is "just taking it easy/relaxing" which seems to go over well.

Yeah, sometimes this will do, but it still is dodging the question. It's being deliberately vague to get them off your back. And part of my point is that we shouldn't have to do this at all.

Besides, even this doesn't really work because relaxing for Extroverts means "unwinding" in some social situation. So then they might presume this means having a few beers in a pub with 6 friends rather than attending a raging party; and inevitably a comment or question follows that I also have to dodge. Alternatively, their response to me can be a joke about how I must be detoxing/burnt out/hungover from prior partying - which also requires an explanation. It can be so exhausting.

I do come from a country with quite a social and drinking culture so this can be an added difficulty. I occasionally drink and socialise but it's not like everyone else my age does.

 

[William K]

It's like how every Friday, everyone I have a passing conversation with (shop assistants, work mates, people I bump into etc) will ask me about my plans for the weekend; which IME almost always means "which party are you going to?" or "who are you going clubbing with?". Every time I have to think of a way to dodge this question because I know "staying at home" (regardless of what I'm doing) is not socially appropriate answer; in fact this is code for "I'm a pathetic loser" or "I have no life" or "No one will be friends with me". It doesn't matter that I'm perfectly happy being at home alone; I feel like this is a secret that I have to keep from the general public. And regardless of how dumb and inaccurate those views are, I really don't like people having that impression of me.

For me it's more what happens on Monday morning when I'm going to my cubicle and one of my colleagues would ask "How was your weekend?". I would reply "Great. I finished my (1000 piece jigsaw puzzle/500 page fantasy novel/96 step origami model/60 hour single player RPG/insert any other solo activity)" So I enjoy that stuff

As for the upside of being an introvert... *thinks*... *thinks harder*
Errr.... we won't go mad if there was a nuclear war and we had to stay in a bunker for 2 years while waiting for the nuclear fallout to clear?

 

[UniqueMixture]

Extremely introverted people seem calm and peaceful to me. I miss feeling that sense of tranquility in silence and just being.

 

[entropie]

Wow. I guess she must be very long-suffering too.

No need to get personal Ms. Sarcasm. Start picking your own nose instead the one of other people.

It's difficult to explain. There are so many situations where you feel you must conform, lie, or dodge a question because you know you will be judged if you don't. A single judgement isn't absolutely devastating but it begins to take it's toll when you feel you must constantly apologise for your nature.

The pure simple truth here is, if you are constantly trieing to conform, you wont ever be happy. The background to this statement is simple boolean logic. Most people, upon hearing that statement will answer: but if my friends dont like me, I feel unhappy. This is perfectly understandable but there are two problems to this: the first is that you are constantly playing a role for your friends, to keep them happy with you. Your friends and people in general tho aint stupid and often notice that you are playing a role. Therefore you can produce unwanted side effects which will harm the relation to your friends. The other thing is your identity. it will never develop and if it does it can only in introverted silence, if you never live it.

I for example am at my current workplace renounced as a nerd and am compared by people to the guy from Big Bang theory. And I say, wow those people have their education from TV that must be real braniacs. So I am playing that role, I have never watched Big Bang theory, but if they see me as that, so be it. Since they know in which "category" of theirs to put me, it has become easier for me. They dont poke me with questions no more like "what are you doing on the weekend" or "what do you think about xy", no they have put me in a category they are happy with and I have my peace. That makes life really great, cause you are part of every social endeavour and people like to meet with you, but you dont need to defend that what is holy to your self all the time, cause of its inherent unconventionality.

Last time I said to my workmates that I'll be visiting the FedCon a startrek convention. They've laughed their asses off but never asked me why. They accept me for whom I am. That is a good feeling.

It's like how every Friday, everyone I have a passing conversation with (shop assistants, work mates, people I bump into etc) will ask me about my plans for the weekend; which IME almost always means "which party are you going to?" or "who are you going clubbing with?". Every time I have to think of a way to dodge this question because I know "staying at home" (regardless of what I'm doing) is not socially appropriate answer; in fact this is code for "I'm a pathetic loser" or "I have no life" or "No one will be friends with me". It doesn't matter that I'm perfectly happy being at home alone; I feel like this is a secret that I have to keep from the general public. And regardless of how dumb and inaccurate those views are, I really don't like people having that impression of me.

I have the same problem, in fact I am prepping on thursdays or wednesdays I call "pattern asnwers" to give out on friday to keep people of my backs and not tell them that I am happily looking forward to building my electric circuits on the weekend.

but see that differently: my girlfriend is infp too and one of the great problems of infps is that they sometimes do not see what good things they have. What do you think is the reason for everyone going to a party and you dont want to ? The reason is: you know what you want, the others dont.

You are in that moment and I think you are in an equal life situation like I am, you are in the higher psychological position. You are basically more developed than your surroundings on the path for personal happiness. the problem is nobody will admire you for that, no they will envy you for that and thats why they call you a looser when not going to a party, because they dont want to be confronted with their own problems, which are: they are only going to a party on the weekend and that so maybe for the last couple of years and have not done anything useful with their lifes so far.

Of course one may ask oneself now: what have I done useful with my life, I am only chilling at home on weekends ? the answer is: I am happy. Thats what counts. the moment you are happy and are not dependant on social rules, is the moment when you become hated; cause nobody on this Earth is happy. Happy people are hunted with pitchforks, called introverted or nerds or freaks and everyone is set out to make their lifes as hell as possible.

thats maybe a bit of an overstatement but I hope you get the general idea.

I'm very introverted (and rather shy as well), but believe me I have tried so hard. On many occasions I'm figuratively holding a gun to my own head to make me walk into that party. I'm extremely tough on myself to make an effort, all the while fighting the overwhelming instinct to run desperately in the opposite direction. This is not something I blame on others. I know that when I force myself to go to things, I often have a good time. I know that these instincts are wrong/inaccurate and I know that my anti-social behaviour is unhealthy. Unfortunately this doesn't make it any easier.

Well we are talking very nicely right now, aint we ? Anti social behaviour would be if you were calling me names or run naked into a gay bar as a girl. That would be anti social. Its not anti social if you follow your intrests.

Go on facebook for lets say 10 minutes and browse thru lets say 50 profiles. Look what they say under hobbies. "Hobbies: party, hanging out with friends, shopping". If so many people, coincidentally share the same hobby mustnt there be more to it. Would you call "shopping" a hobby? I dont know, I cant give that a name, I am an engineer no psychoanalyst but here is a functional pattern that somehow feels wrong.

What if "going shopping" as a hobby would mean that you are extrovert. Then all scientific discoveries on the world must been done by introverts, cause extroverts were busy shopping. That cant be it, can it ?

My theory is a different one: I think that the majority of this worlds people dont know what to do with themselves. So they follow social dynamics or patterns and think that makes them happy, which it surely does... for some time. But then at some point in their lifes, comes the big bang and they never will figure out what their problem was all along.

So I can just give you this advice: following your instincts and doing that what makes you feel good, is always the right solution. Not doing so and only focus on please other, will hinder you eternally in your own self-development.

I think you also have to realise that sometimes it doesn't look like the introvert is trying. A strong introvert trying really hard to be social can come across to an extrovert as a half-assed attempt. Me not trying is something few people see, because when that happens, I'm gone; I'm not even in that room at all.

To me there is only one difference between introversion and extroversion. Extroverts solve their problems in communication, while Introverts need time to process a problem and then come up with a solution with themselves. More difference there isnt. The social behaviour has nothing to do with that and dont believe you are an introvert just because you have hobbies.

The thing that you need are the right friends, good friends which share your hobbies. Those can be found in clubs and thanks to the internet, they can be found anywhere on the world right now. I hope that you find the people you need and quit living up to what a mindless party scene expects from you.

 

[Sizzling Berry]

I even drew a picture of it - hope it's going to work - fingers crossed. I'm proud of it .

It's a continuum from introversion to extroversion. The violet line was supposed to be Gaussian. The social ideal is more like a prototype of an ideal person. If every person has their place on the intro-extro scale they probably can deviate from it a bit (both towards introversion and extroversion). Still if you are very introverted (very close to the left part of scale) not many of your behaviours will fall into accepted zone close enough to the ideal prototype. On the other hand if you are an ambivert you are not an ideal according to the social norms but your behaviours are mostly within accepted zone.

The question is where the social ideal is placed. According to Susan Cain it's closer to the right (extroversion).

In the thread in NF part of the forum I've asked if you can be a rebel/non-conformist not being aware of it/ by accident. Apparently if you are very introverted in our times you can.

 

[Southern Kross]

The pure simple truth here is, if you are constantly trieing to conform, you wont ever be happy. The background to this statement is simple boolean logic. Most people, upon hearing that statement will answer: but if my friends dont like me, I feel unhappy. This is perfectly understandable but there are two problems to this: the first is that you are constantly playing a role for your friends, to keep them happy with you. Your friends and people in general tho aint stupid and often notice that you are playing a role. Therefore you can produce unwanted side effects which will harm the relation to your friends. The other thing is your identity. it will never develop and if it does it can only in introverted silence, if you never live it.

No, I don't conform to please friends, only acquaintances and strangers. My friends understand my nature, and if they don't, they're not my friends.

The point is that people that don't know me well form perceptions of me based on false premises and prejudices. I'm not stupid; I can see that most human beings are crap at reading unfamiliar people, and that they fall back on their personal biases to help decide what to think. I'm also aware at how bad I am at first impressions and what a disadvantage that puts me at. See with friends, you have the time and capacity to change false impressions, but with strangers, if they've judged you, in most cases, it's too late.

I don't want to win over people that think little of me, nor do I think their negative views of me are justified; I just wish to spare myself being mocked and ostracised. This is also natural for a INFP, because there is more about us that puts people off than simply introversion.

You are in that moment and I think you are in an equal life situation like I am, you are in the higher psychological position. You are basically more developed than your surroundings on the path for personal happiness. the problem is nobody will admire you for that, no they will envy you for that and thats why they call you a looser when not going to a party, because they dont want to be confronted with their own problems, which are: they are only going to a party on the weekend and that so maybe for the last couple of years and have not done anything useful with their lifes so far.

My theory is a different one: I think that the majority of this worlds people dont know what to do with themselves. So they follow social dynamics or patterns and think that makes them happy, which it surely does... for some time. But then at some point in their lifes, comes the big bang and they never will figure out what their problem was all along.

I do see what your point, but as you've basically said, the truth counts for jack. Like it or not, perception can determine so much. I still have to talk to these messed up people and bear their judgement - which is easier said than done.

So I can just give you this advice: following your instincts and doing that what makes you feel good, is always the right solution. Not doing so and only focus on please other, will hinder you eternally in your own self-development.

I'm not sure if you understood me. There are good instincts and then there are bad ones; the good ones help you to make the right decisions; the bad ones try to mess with you and are based on insecurities, anxieties and self-preservation. The bad ones tell me to never to leave the house and that I don't want to ever talk to anyone - but this is total BS because I do like socialising. The point is that if I always listen to them it will not make me feel happy. Sometimes I have to ignore them, resist them even, to achieve a more healthy and balanced existence, as well as to develop as a person.

The thing that you need are the right friends, good friends which share your hobbies. Those can be found in clubs and thanks to the internet, they can be found anywhere on the world right now. I hope that you find the people you need and quit living up to what a mindless party scene expects from you.

Absolutely. But don't think that I am a total conformist, full of self-denial. Mostly I'm at home doing what I like and not living up to others expectations.

 

[William K]

Absolutely. But don't think that I am a total conformist, full of self-denial. Mostly I'm at home doing what I like and not living up to others expectations.

I agree here. I'm not going around proclaiming how special I am to be blessed with the gift of introversion, nor am I going to play victim and lament about how the world is conspiring against us. All I want is for people to stop trying to 'fix' me by suggesting that I go out more and socialize. I'm happy being cloistered in my mom's basement and I DO go out once in a while when the snacks run out!

 

[Coriolis]

There are so many situations where you feel you must conform, lie, or dodge a question because you know you will be judged if you don't. A single judgement isn't absolutely devastating but it begins to take it's toll when you feel you must constantly apologise for your nature.

It's like how every Friday, everyone I have a passing conversation with (shop assistants, work mates, people I bump into etc) will ask me about my plans for the weekend; which IME almost always means "which party are you going to?" or "who are you going clubbing with?". Every time I have to think of a way to dodge this question because I know "staying at home" (regardless of what I'm doing) is not socially appropriate answer; in fact this is code for "I'm a pathetic loser" or "I have no life" or "No one will be friends with me".

Yeah! Even when people are nice about it, it's still kind of embarrassing. I will say: "I'm just staying at home, I'll probably read." Their faces fall but then they quickly recover and say something like: "oh yeah, sometimes I feel like a homebody too." Their excitement about discussing plans disappears and they walk away and end the conversation

I hate these conversations, on both sides of the weekend, partly because my weekend or evening activities are no one else's business. Even on the rare occasion when I am going out to a party or something else conventionally exciting, I will often answer "nothing much", precisely in order to shut the conversation down and send the inquirer off.

I really don't care what impression this gives others, especially at work where my reputation is outstanding on matters that count. I feel no compulsion to live up to others' social expectations, or to apologize for who and how I am. I will entertain legitimate complaints, of course, but how I spend my leisure time is not open for general discussion. My real friends know the score.

 

[Hazashin]

I have co-workers who need to know every detail of my life and need to immediantly relay the info to other people in chat. I have co-workers who meet in the morning for a social gathering and gossip the latest, tho they see themselves everyday and I am wondering if they dont bore the shit out of themselves already. To me its a mystery how someone can waste their precious lifetime to such a great extent.

I would like to point out that curiousity in what other people do in their lives does NOT = extraversion! I like to learn about just about everybody, but that doesn't make me an extravert. I don't need to relay that information either, though; I just keep it in my mind.