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  1. #21
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I am highly critical of seeing E or I as biological, I'ld be very careful in making such a statement. From my personal experience I've lived thru phases of high extroversion and through phases of high introversion, there wasnt really a clear line to me. There are times I'ld clearly say I am an E and times I'ld clearly say I am an I. There may be some truth to a biological connection but to prove that is as difficult as for example proving if homosexuality is nature or nurture.
    You have to be neither careful nor highly critical. The science has been done and is compelling.

    It is a continuum. If you are not distinctly one or the other, you are somewhere in the middle. Nothing complicated about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #22
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    You have to be neither careful nor highly critical. The science has been done and is compelling.

    It is a continuum. If you are not distinctly one or the other, you are somewhere in the middle. Nothing complicated about that.
    Ok so this is about knowing what science says not my opinion. Then I've to pass cause the only two books I ever read were the playboy and my cars manual. I am not so good in just believing stuff without a reflection against my personal experiences, what is probably the classical definition of an extrovert.

    I dont even know why you are unhappy, I am an extrovert thinking overdone sociality is dumb and being judged for not being as social as everyone else is dumb as well. Thats what you want is it not ? or dont you know what you want, is that the problem ? :/

    To me the whole discussion ended when the op said "The largest group out there are ambiverts", cause then its really about preference. To me its a concious decision everyone has to make, whether he wants to be seen as extrovert or doesnt want to be seen at all. Young people often do not have a lot of experience in life or havent met a lot of people. When they meet peers at their age in school and kindergarten, often there are already those who have more experience, cause their parents maybe showed them around or they were raised more extrovertly. Every so called "introverted kid" then has a decision, do I try and learn and get as extroverted as anyone else or am I not intrested in others and rather do my own stuff.

    the sad truth is that the majority of all those introverted kids, rather wants to be an extrovert but they never try to change themselves or better themselves, instead they become arrogant or angry or whatever. Thats what I meant with social dynamic. You cant just run around and say its biological whether your I or E when there are so much more variables in that equation.

    I am not saying it has nothing to do with biological. When I think of my girlfriends sisters daughter, she is only age 3 and yes you can call her introverted. So there is definitly a biological side. But I am convinced the social dynamic outweighs the biological side. its my personal very idealistic opinion, I have no proof for that.

    I hope I didnt offend anyone here. Since we got Hitler germans aint sold so easily to new things, so we can be very passive aggressive, stubborn and practical. Thats prolly why you wont find Jung in any library here that claims to be good .
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #23
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Ok so this is about knowing what science says not my opinion. Then I've to pass cause the only two books I ever read were the playboy and my cars manual. I am not so good in just believing stuff without a reflection against my personal experiences, what is probably the classical definition of an extrovert.
    I guess there's not much I can say to that..

    I dont even know why you are unhappy, I am an extrovert thinking overdone sociality is dumb and being judged for not being as social as everyone else is dumb as well. Thats what you want is it not ? or dont you know what you want, is that the problem ? :/
    What? I'm not unhappy. You are the only person who has expressed any kind of emotion in this conversation...
    Really, the projection that goes on around here is highly entertaining.
    To me the whole discussion ended when the op said "The largest group out there are ambiverts", cause then its really about preference. To me its a concious decision everyone has to make, whether he wants to be seen as extrovert or doesnt want to be seen at all.

    No.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #24
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Ok, but we definitly found out who is I and who is E
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #25
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Yes. I find very little reward in repetition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #26
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    me neither, I only do it when I have the feeling people dont understand me. But being able to actually delve into the world of another person and develop a theory together with him to see if it holds or breaks, instead of quoting only the book or only presenting the own standpoint, is a quality worth to be learnt in life. Even my gf can do that, tho she is hardcore introvert and hates my repetitions even more.

    I am just saying, its not like introverts would be perfect. Every choice has a negative side as well.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #27
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I dont even know why you are unhappy, I am an extrovert thinking overdone sociality is dumb and being judged for not being as social as everyone else is dumb as well. Thats what you want is it not ? or dont you know what you want, is that the problem ? :/
    It's difficult to explain. There are so many situations where you feel you must conform, lie, or dodge a question because you know you will be judged if you don't. A single judgement isn't absolutely devastating but it begins to take it's toll when you feel you must constantly apologise for your nature.

    It's like how every Friday, everyone I have a passing conversation with (shop assistants, work mates, people I bump into etc) will ask me about my plans for the weekend; which IME almost always means "which party are you going to?" or "who are you going clubbing with?". Every time I have to think of a way to dodge this question because I know "staying at home" (regardless of what I'm doing) is not socially appropriate answer; in fact this is code for "I'm a pathetic loser" or "I have no life" or "No one will be friends with me". It doesn't matter that I'm perfectly happy being at home alone; I feel like this is a secret that I have to keep from the general public. And regardless of how dumb and inaccurate those views are, I really don't like people having that impression of me.

    To me the whole discussion ended when the op said "The largest group out there are ambiverts", cause then its really about preference. To me its a concious decision everyone has to make, whether he wants to be seen as extrovert or doesnt want to be seen at all. Young people often do not have a lot of experience in life or havent met a lot of people. When they meet peers at their age in school and kindergarten, often there are already those who have more experience, cause their parents maybe showed them around or they were raised more extrovertly. Every so called "introverted kid" then has a decision, do I try and learn and get as extroverted as anyone else or am I not intrested in others and rather do my own stuff.

    the sad truth is that the majority of all those introverted kids, rather wants to be an introvert but they never try to change themselves or better themselves, they rather become arrogant or angry or whatever. Thats what I meant with social dynamic. You cant just run around and say its biological whether your I or E when there are so much more variables in that equation.
    I'm very introverted (and rather shy as well), but believe me I have tried so hard. On many occasions I'm figuratively holding a gun to my own head to make me walk into that party. I'm extremely tough on myself to make an effort, all the while fighting the overwhelming instinct to run desperately in the opposite direction. This is not something I blame on others. I know that when I force myself to go to things, I often have a good time. I know that these instincts are wrong/inaccurate and I know that my anti-social behaviour is unhealthy. Unfortunately this doesn't make it any easier.

    I think you also have to realise that sometimes it doesn't look like the introvert is trying. A strong introvert trying really hard to be social can come across to an extrovert as a half-assed attempt. Me not trying is something few people see, because when that happens, I'm gone; I'm not even in that room at all.
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    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #28
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Even my gf can do that, tho she is hardcore introvert and hates my repetitions even more.
    Wow. I guess she must be very long-suffering too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    It's like how every Friday, everyone I have a passing conversation with (shop assistants, work mates, people I bump into etc) will ask me about my plans for the weekend; which IME almost always means "which party are you going to?" or "who are you going clubbing with?". Every time I have to think of a way to dodge this question because I know "staying at home" (regardless of what I'm doing) is not socially appropriate answer; in fact this is code for "I'm a pathetic loser" or "I have no life" or "No one will be friends with me". It doesn't matter that I'm perfectly happy being at home alone; I feel like this is a secret that I have to keep from the general public. And regardless of how dumb and inaccurate those views are, I really don't like people having that impression of me.
    Yeah! Even when people are nice about it, it's still kind of embarrassing. I will say: "I'm just staying at home, I'll probably read." Their faces fall but then they quickly recover and say something like: "oh yeah, sometimes I feel like a homebody too." Their excitement about discussing plans disappears and they walk away and end the conversation.

    I'm very introverted (and rather shy as well), but believe me I have tried so hard. On many occasions I'm figuratively holding a gun to my own head to make me walk into that party. I'm extremely tough on myself to make an effort, all the while fighting the overwhelming instinct to run desperately in the opposite direction.
    Haha! I too feel like I put a gun to my head to be more social. I pace back in forth, trying to psyche myself up for some sort of social occasion beforehand. I like to think of it as "showtime" and try to approach it like a theatrical performance. It's a simple matter of stage fright.

    I know I'll probably enjoy myself, but it's so much easier to just stay in my comfort zone and stay at home.

  10. #30
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    It's difficult to explain. There are so many situations where you feel you must conform, lie, or dodge a question because you know you will be judged if you don't. A single judgement isn't absolutely devastating but it begins to take it's toll when you feel you must constantly apologise for your nature.

    It's like how every Friday, everyone I have a passing conversation with (shop assistants, work mates, people I bump into etc) will ask me about my plans for the weekend; which IME almost always means "which party are you going to?" or "who are you going clubbing with?". Every time I have to think of a way to dodge this question because I know "staying at home" (regardless of what I'm doing) is not socially appropriate answer; in fact this is code for "I'm a pathetic loser" or "I have no life" or "No one will be friends with me". It doesn't matter that I'm perfectly happy being at home alone; I feel like this is a secret that I have to keep from the general public. And regardless of how dumb and inaccurate those views are, I really don't like people having that impression of me.
    My standard answer is "just taking it easy/relaxing" which seems to go over well.
    -end of thread-

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