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Points of agreement and disagreement in discussions

G

garbage

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This is not intended to judge. Both in real life and on the Internet, I notice that some people (a) habitually pick out details in a discussion that they disagree with, while others (b) try to look for a common understanding with others' points of view--not just with me, but with most people. This type (a) does not often explicitly state whether they agree with the overall point (though sometimes they do), while (b) does not often explicitly state what, if anything, they disagree with. Both have their obvious 'flaws' if taken to extremes.

Where do you fall on this continuum? (chalk me up as (b), for the most part)

What do you think drives this? Is it as simple as a focus on ideas versus a focus on harmony? Does (a) subconsciously attempt to distance him/herself from other people? Is (b) a people-pleaser?
 

INTP

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When someone picks one particular thing they disagree with, it means that they agree with rest or see that you are close enough to the truth with that other stuff that it would be just useless nit picking.
 

Lark

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I would consider myself to be B, although people are free to disagree, I think that its more about wishing to have enough of a shared prespective in order that discussion can be possible at all, probably an E trait as opposed to an I one, I would not say that its people pleasing per se but it could be if taken to extremes.
 

Totenkindly

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When someone picks one particular thing they disagree with, it means that they agree with rest or see that you are close enough to the truth with that other stuff that it would be just useless nit picking.

Well, it can mean that. I know sometimes it means that for me, and I assume for you too... I'll ignore the things I agree with and just hit the areas I think are important to debate.

But not everyone who just picks out one point has that as their motivation.

I'm more big-picture. It depends on the topic, but usually I'm looking for points of agreement with people and can overlook small areas of disagreement. Still, sometimes I approach it from the other direction if it's a big thing I disagree with or feel the comment needs to be heavily qualified.
 

lunalum

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Without both of these I've noticed that discussions really get to a lot of nowhere. Without some disagreement it's just a bunch of "this is awesome I agree!" which just isn't much of a discussion. When it is all picking at the tiniest of things and not acknowledging that in general you actually agree 99% with the other person but instead of directly acknowledging the 1% you zone in on some abstract detail and dance angrily around it to infinity, it all goes to nowhere until you directly acknowledge the 99%/1%ness that is usually really is. This sort of angry dance is pretty much what [MENTION=5489]shortnsweet[/MENTION] and I have coined as "purpley" :D I try to stay away from having it go completely purpley but instead usually say where I generally agree and highlight clearly the specific stuff I don't agree on so we can build on it.
 

King sns

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Without both of these I've noticed that discussions really get to a lot of nowhere. Without some disagreement it's just a bunch of "this is awesome I agree!" which just isn't much of a discussion. When it is all picking at the tiniest of things and not acknowledging that in general you actually agree 99% with the other person but instead of directly acknowledging the 1% you zone in on some abstract detail and dance angrily around it to infinity, it all goes to nowhere until you directly acknowledge the 99%/1%ness that is usually really is. This sort of angry dance is pretty much what [MENTION=5489]shortnsweet[/MENTION] and I have coined as "purpley" :D I try to stay away from having it go completely purpley but instead usually say where I generally agree and highlight clearly the specific stuff I don't agree on so we can build on it.

(nods dumbly, smiling.) I agree!!
 
A

Anew Leaf

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This is not intended to judge. Both in real life and on the Internet, I notice that some people (a) habitually pick out details in a discussion that they disagree with, while others (b) try to look for a common understanding with others' points of view--not just with me, but with most people. This type (a) does not often explicitly state whether they agree with the overall point (though sometimes they do), while (b) does not often explicitly state what, if anything, they disagree with. Both have their obvious 'flaws' if taken to extremes.

Where do you fall on this continuum? (chalk me up as (b), for the most part)

What do you think drives this? Is it as simple as a focus on ideas versus a focus on harmony? Does (a) subconsciously attempt to distance him/herself from other people? Is (b) a people-pleaser?

I fall in between the two. It comes to whether or not I care to spend energy on such discussions. Usually I decide I don't have the energy or inclination to do so.

My problem is typically that I don't trust that I am 100% correct on my point of view, and I don't wish to get into a debate if I don't have all the facts, or have looked at the situation from all the angles. I am usually pretty content with holding opposing ideas in my head at once and seeing that I am perhaps 48% correct in my assessment and the other person is 37% correct and someone else is 64% correct, etc.

TL;DR: A-------------------------------------------------------------x--------------------------------------B

What drives me usually is inner harmony, harmony for those I care about.... and that's about it. I dislike succombing to the side of me that wants to prove how right she is at a topic.

I think people can desire harmony between others without wanting to be a people-pleaser per se.
 

Poki

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Depends on what I feel like. Do I want to be argumentative or suportive. It really depends on the other person...I just decide which way I want to take something and run with it.
 

Owfin

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Very much a type A. Sometimes people get confused and think I'm opposing them, when I am fundamentally supporting them. I hate it in discussions when people just agree with each other without adding anything new or expanding on anything already said.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I will pick out the details which don’t make sense to me in what someone else is saying, but I do it with the goal of finding common ground. It’s like my way of saying “This specific part is what prevents me from seeing how your argument is effective/agreeing with you.” I should probably make an effort to articulate agreement more often, though. I have a bad habit of assuming it goes without saying that I probably agree with whatever details I don’t point out as being problematic for me.

What do you think drives this? Is it as simple as a focus on ideas versus a focus on harmony? Does (a) subconsciously attempt to distance him/herself from other people? Is (b) a people-pleaser?

There are times when I’ll argue a point with the intention of creating distance. For example- if someone is arguing why they believe a certain group of people shouldn’t have the same civil liberties as others…..basically expressing an opinion which I personally believe is unethical, then I’ll feel the need to express disagreement for the sake of establishing a clear distance between that person’s beliefs and my own. I suppose part of it is finding the person’s beliefs threatening to my own identity and feeling the need to clearly establish a difference- but it’s also driven by some goal to affect the environment around me by establishing to ‘others’ that person’s beliefs are ONLY a set of beliefs (which, imo, merit questioning).

I do think, though, that a lot of times even individuals who take an antidialogical approach to discussion and aren’t interested in finding common ground so much as imposing their own beliefs on others are still doing it for the sake of creating less distance between opinions- it’s just that they’re trying to get rid of the difference/distance by making others adopt their own viewpoint in its entirety. It’s mostly ineffective, but I think ultimately it’s still driven by the urge to get rid of distance/differences.
 

Rasofy

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c) Prove them wrong in a smartass style .

Heh. Let's see...for the most part I:
State I agree with the points I didn't mention, if it is the case.
Quote opinions I agree with.
Don't bother correcting dumb/stubborn people (so, if I'm correcting you, it's a good sign...if I just :fpalm:, I probably don't think you can be saved).
 

miss fortune

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d. make a lewd joke and smirk :cheese:

bonus points for tying the reference into the discussion being made while not actually taking any side... more bonus points for deliberately twisting Freud's theory as well :holy:
 

Santosha

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I am type B IRL. On forums I am not looking for social harmony as much as ideas. If those ideas are presented in a non combative learning fashion - awesome. THis is the sweet, sweet nectar that allows a pure exchange of ideas without as much social reserve and hangup. Though common sense tells us that small obstacles can get in the way of more important concepts (see infuriating intp-intj debates) I generally attempt to remain honest while open and polite.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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When someone picks one particular thing they disagree with, it means that they agree with rest or see that you are close enough to the truth with that other stuff that it would be just useless nit picking.
I tend to leave alone aspects of the discussion that could get muddled, and pick a point that is more clear to debate. If I think the point of disagreement is going to end up emotional or personal, I'll leave those alone regardless of whether or not I agree.

Also, if I look back at the point I made that is disagreed with and I can see it could push a button, I don't continue it because I would rather start it again more simply. I'll also generally leave points alone at least for a while if I disagree strongly as much as if I agree to be sure I have time to think it through and then sometimes I forget about the thread.
 

Such Irony

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Slightly more B than A. I will see details I don't agree with but I don't think I make a habit out of pointing out every little thing I don't agree with. If its some more important detail that affects the integrity of the whole, I will point it out.
 

cascadeco

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I'm generally more B than A, although I'm unsure that social harmony is my motivation. Maybe it is, dunno. If I sense the other person is actually open to a differing viewpoint, I'll more likely state my opinion or say I disagree or whatever. If I sense the other person is incredibly rigid and it's utterly pointless/futile for me to offer a different viewpoint, I simply won't bother. It's really what is or is not worth the effort for me, honestly. Is there or is there not a point?

I also typically won't point out little details, if they aren't an 'important' detail that the entire story/view hinges upon. If the detail is incorrect but doesn't make or break the overall theme, I won't point it out. I'll often note it internally, but there's no need to point it out imo, if the person is totally on-track as far as everything else and the conclusion being drawn. But if the detail is something that the other person is totally leaning on as a main element to their conclusion/logic/etc, then I'll be more likely to point it out.
 
G

garbage

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Cool stuff, good viewpoints.

I think I've tended not to recognize the implicit (potential) message of "I agree with everything you said, except for ___" that comes along with pointing out where one disagrees. That's my own bias, and this is helping me get past it.
 

wildflower

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Slightly more B than A. I will see details I don't agree with but I don't think I make a habit out of pointing out every little thing I don't agree with. If its some more important detail that affects the integrity of the whole, I will point it out.

i think i pretty much do this but i would consider it more a than b, lol. er, i just did it. ;)
 

Siúil a Rúin

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(b) try to look for a common understanding with others' points of view--not just with me, but with most people.
I always hope to find at least some point of agreement. Even though that looks like it is creating harmony, it actually helps remove ego and self investment from the discussion and focus on ideas instead. When it is noted that there are areas of agreement, then it helps avoid the dismissive mode that just creates several brick walls and dead ends for discussion.

My ideal discussions are ones in which it is alright to admit my own errors. If too much ego investment drives the debate, then to admit a flaw becomes this extreme social faux pas for anyone which halts intellectual progress. Once people are at ease and not focused soley on defending their own legitimacy, then idea space opens up and a real discussion can begin.
 
G

garbage

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fia said it. I want to feel free to admit my own errors and shortcomings without feeling like a huge jackass or something.

--
I've figured something else out.

When someone tears apart details in my statements and doesn't lead in with an "I agree, but", I can't even figure out if they and I have the same fundamental axioms or basis for discussion, and I often don't want to discuss what I perceive as useless tangents.

The point that I'm trying to make is the thing that I'm trying to say, and often I don't care about the rest--it's often just needless fluff or metaphors to help support that point. From my point of view, addressing one stupid metaphor or one word choice isn't addressing what I've said at all.

I often find myself trying to be as clear as concise as possible so that something I say isn't needlessly picked apart and my major point isn't left unaddressed, because that point is the thing that I want to put out there and learn about.

I don't mind minor corrections here and there, but to base an entire discussion on them? No thanks.

more bonus points for deliberately twisting Freud's theory as well :holy:
Wait, this too. The extent to which people take it so seriously that they're blue in the face about it.. oh man..
 
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