Borderline Personality Disorder

[Antimony]

I had a nice guy take me in, who was healthy. My S.O. (ENTJ 8). I met him in a forum lol. He had strong boundaries, and he worked with me to rid myself of it. I never got any therapy to end it, but I had been seeking help throughout my 20's to no avail. I did not want bpd; it was thrust upon me, and I couldn't find the proper situation and environment necessary to rid myself of it. I also was a member of several forums, and used other resources that provided me with the information necessary to fix the situation.

Are you female? /didn't know

I'm glad you got the help you needed. What environment was that?

 

[ICUP]

Are you female? /didn't know

I'm glad you got the help you needed. What environment was that?

Yes. Female. Stability and especially, strong boundaries. "If you do <insert behavior>, then I am going to do <insert behavior>." Such as, "if you scream and wake the neighbors, I am going to leave and not come back for two days." Usually leaving the house overnight was the punishment for me, if I crossed a boundary. And he was like clockwork, very reliable and scheduled. Not chaotic at all. He spent all of his time with me for years, besides work. These were what I consider the things most important to my success, coming from my environment.

It's like raising a child in some ways. Emotionally immature, but intellectually an adult. It's a set of bad behaviors learned, many times, because the home environment was horrible. New behaviors can be learned to take the place of the old.

 

[sculpting]

Real Borderline is a very tragic issue for the individual. They seek help and are often snubbed by shrinks as most shrinks do not understand how to help them. Even when they do try and help someone with BPD, it can be extremely frustrating as the person swings from extreme neediness to billowing hatred. (BPD is also annoying on this forum as it often is the catch all phrase for behaviors of others, that we do not understand- "Oh, she must be Borderline". I have lost track of the numer of ENTPs who are dealing with "borderline ENFPs" for instance...I suspect EXFPs are overrepresented in the Borderline population, but just because some one expresses frustration, hurt or annoyance, or inappropriate behavior, it doesnt make them borderline. I suspect duration of the behavior is key-how often for how long...)

I think my mom likely has BPD, although she takes meds for all types of mental issues. In Saturned's description, I recognized the catatonic child as myself-when you are surrounded by the massive amount of insanity and instability generated by a real borderline (or even an unstable parent of any sort), as a child, withdraw was a safe solution. You cannot rely upon those around you to provide a protective place to grow. I dont interact with my mom anymore as I cant tolerate her emotional manipulation and inability to learn from her past. She has tried to kill herself a few times in the far past, but now just has emo breakdowns mostly.

I also have a sister in law who was diagnosed borderline at 20 and was cutting. She was very calm and collected externallly and never had any issues in school-but had been cutting for four years. She had some issues with severe anxiety and took pretty intense meds for a few years and has lived as an in home au pair for her her sister for the past 8 years. At 27, she has a good job as a manager of a Drs office and is about to live on her own again. She doesnt seem to feel the same emotional turbulance that pushed her over the edge initially-however, even with a formal diagnosis, she never exhibited the full range of rage and other issues I saw in my mom or in Saturned's description. Perhaps ICUP has a point regarding age and maturity helping some folks out.

Also-I havent met this women-but I guess she is my step-sister, technically. As I understand it, she is so out of control that she doesnt stay out of a mental ward for very long. They let her out, she gets money from family, finds a man, steals things, starts doing drugs, oscillates between crying at her parents for not caring, then raging, then will try and kill herself-all within a week of being released. They just lock her back up. Perhaps this is the extreme end of the spectrum.

The most effective treatment for Borderline in DBT.

http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/

It is a combo of first, 1) Affirmation and acceptance of the indivdual, establish the sense of self worth they lack. 2) Teach them to self-observe and self monitor their behavior so they can learn when they are becoming unreasonable and self-regulate, even to the point of checklists and numerical rating scales 3) emotional detachment, often taught via mindful meditation, to reduce the paranoia notions and subseqeunt fear that others will abandon them, and help predict and prevent angry outburts and 4) social skills, to help them understand what the most socially acceptable response is in a situation.

I think there have been a number of studies that place DBT far ahead as the treatment of choice-but the person still has to want to change their behavior.

 

[Zarathustra]

I suspect EXFPs are overrepresented in the Borderline population...

Yeah, this was one of my first thoughts upon seeing this thread.

From celebritytypes.com:

ENFPs are:
Strongly linked to the Histrionic personality
Somewhat linked to the Narcissistic, Hypomaniac and Borderline personalities

ESFPs are:
Strongly linked to the Histrionic personality
Somewhat linked to the Dependent, Hypomaniac and Borderline personalities

I agree that simply expressing emotion or engaging in inappropriate behavior does not make one fall under any of these categories, but it's pretty understandable to look at such behavior on a spectrum, and to consider that a lot of these disorders are essentially an EFP getting too caught up in their own Fi(Si). Interestingly enough, learning to detach, a la DBT, can pretty understandably be seen as tertiary development: choosing to look at things through a Te filter as opposed to just the Fi one.

Frankly, I think it's important for EFPs to realize this.

 

[ICUP]

Also-I havent met this women-but I guess she is my step-sister, technically. As I understand it, she is so out of control that she doesnt stay out of a mental ward for very long. They let her out, she gets money from family, finds a man, steals things, starts doing drugs, oscillates between crying at her parents for not caring, then raging, then will try and kill herself-all within a week of being released. They just lock her back up. Perhaps this is the extreme end of the spectrum.

She needs a heavy entj 8 to get ahold of her ass.
Yes, extreme case. I never stole, I did do some drugs. Yes, I raged and cried at my parents, often. Never tried to kill myself. I came to points where I thought of it often, though. I think I could've been pushed there, but I wouldn't do it myself.

 

[violaine]

Does anyone here have it? Know about it? Know what to do about it?

I don't have it. I've dealt with a few people who do. I have little time for someone who has it and isn't working on themselves. Unless they were a close relative or very close friend who literally had no one else, I'd distance myself. I'd do it gradually, lest I trigger the fear of abandonment that can bring rage and threats of violence (and actual violence). Don't be in the same room with someone who has BPD if you are going to break up with him/her. I've been in that situation and his reaction was utterly terrifying.

I've only had the energy to compassionately deal with one woman I know who has it. And she was so exhausting that I have no compassion for an out of control BPDer anymore. I just want them far away from me. IME, it's just repeated lashings of out of control behavior from someone who then insists on being taken seriously. And then tries to employ guilt as a way to smooth things over. It will make you feel as if you are going crazy if you don't realize it's them and not you. They will blame you for the way they feel. It's so annoying. And it's galling when there is never an unreserved apology. If you ever, ever hear the word sorry, it will always be followed with a "but you..." and then the person will go on to list why you deserved xyz.

I've read a lot about it as I do think it's an interesting set of behaviors to observe from a distance. I have read that there is a link between the behavior and the functioning of the amygdala, which is involved in generating negative emotional states and regulating vigilence. The amygdalae of the BP disordered people tested were hyperactive and moreso in one particular region. My take on that is that I figure a BPD person has exaggerated fear responses, possibly related to a heightened sensitivity, possibly due to early conditioning. And sweeping things under the rug later seems to be due to not having a strong enough self image to take responsibility for things they've done. It's like they would shatter if they were to fully acknowledge their actions.

I do think good experiences with rock solid boundaries can possibly help some people who have a mild form of it to overcome it. People can and do grow out of it. But there's just no way to know who will. I have seen BPDers take any kindness or realization that someone is sticking around as a signal to treat that person really badly. The most miserable man I know is an INTP guy married to a woman with BPD. She can appear so close to normal but then the switch flips and it's frankly, deranged. His life is awful.

It can also occur alongside other personality disorders which obviously further complicates things.

This is an excellent insight into the cycle of female BPDers in relationships:

http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a101.htm

 

[prplchknz]

I'm beginning to wonder if I have BPD, probably a result of reading this thread. but anyways I sometimes think "If I kill myself, that will show x" I know it's not a healthy thought. I never say it aloud though.highly suspect one of my ex-room mates had it, but it's been years i can't remember why I thought that.

 

[Mal12345]

I understand. That is why I am posting this thread. Something needs to be done.

I also hope this thread serves to inform others about BPD.

I lived with a BPD person for 13 years.

By the way, your every post feels to me like you're screaming it. It's because of your avatar. Here's the humorous version of it -

 

[Fluffywolf]

I've been close to someone for a while who had it. I found it extremely intruiging, she was a very interesting person, despite her obvious faults, and maybe I was giving her attention for the wrong reasons, I don't know, but I was kind to her at least, and for a while it was quite nice. She cut all ties with me though in a fit of depression, and my attempts at getting back at her failed until I stopped trying.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Definitely high functioning.

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats or self-injuring behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars (excoriation) or picking at oneself.
Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
Chronic feelings of emptiness [not sure about this one, but it is possible]
Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms

Uhh....so based on my intuition, pretty much all of them. She made a manipulative suicidal gesture to me the other day.

I think the problem is that very often they ARE high-functioning... to where most people find them to be absolutely normal. It's those closest to them that bare the brunt of their problems and issues.

You need to do a lot of self-care, and have some people who are in your corner. I find that it's very easy to feel like you are the "crazy" one around them.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I think the scariest thing is making sure you realize that if it is the case that they have borderline personality disorder that you only accuse them of that, because beyond that usually the reason why they do those actions had nothing to do with them.

 

[Antimony]

I lived with a BPD person for 13 years.

By the way, your every post feels to me like you're screaming it. It's because of your avatar. Here's the humorous version of it -

I scream all my posts. Didn't you know? I am naturally loud.

 

[Mal12345]

I scream all my posts. Didn't you know? I am naturally loud.

 

[ICUP]

Many times it's true that a person who is dating or lives with a borderline has severe issues too. Codependency issues, apd, or another disorder.

 

[SilkRoad]

Many times it's true that a person who is dating or lives with a borderline has severe issues too. Codependency issues, apd, or another disorder.

I was googling some stuff about BPD. There is an awful lot out there for/by men who have or have had girlfriends and wives with BPD. While I felt for them, I also felt that they could have exercised a bit more caution before getting into such relationships in the first place. I get the impression that some men are drawn to such women like moths to a flame - some combination of finding them very sexual, and wanting to rescue them - and then find themselves in over their heads.

Hmm... I had a roommate who had some tendencies in that direction too, some years ago. An ESFJ. I definitely questioned my reality and sanity when I was around her, a lot.

 

[Anew Leaf]

I was googling some stuff about BPD. There is an awful lot out there for/by men who have or have had girlfriends and wives with BPD. While I felt for them, I also felt that they could have exercised a bit more caution before getting into such relationships in the first place. I get the impression that some men are drawn to such women like moths to a flame - some combination of finding them very sexual, and wanting to rescue them - and then find themselves in over their heads.

Hmm... I had a roommate who had some tendencies in that direction too, some years ago. An ESFJ. I definitely questioned my reality and sanity when I was around her, a lot.

I think sometimes these people can "pass" for normal initially, and then slowly their crazy becomes unwrapped as they both descend into the abyss.

But a great many of the men probably do have some kind of white knight complex going on.

 

[FDG]

I was googling some stuff about BPD. There is an awful lot out there for/by men who have or have had girlfriends and wives with BPD. While I felt for them, I also felt that they could have exercised a bit more caution before getting into such relationships in the first place. I get the impression that some men are drawn to such women like moths to a flame - some combination of finding them very sexual, and wanting to rescue them - and then find themselves in over their heads.

It's definitely true. I slightly recognized these tendencies in myself during the first 4 months of my relationship with a BPD girl, but the drama was absolutely too unattractive. Plus I have a big ego and I couldn't believe a word of what she periodically said of my personality, my intelligence, my body, etc. (lots and lots of negative stuff), so I lost all the respect. I could see some "milder" guys having more trouble with that.

 

[SilkRoad]

I think sometimes these people can "pass" for normal initially, and then slowly their crazy becomes unwrapped as they both descend into the abyss.

But a great many of the men probably do have some kind of white knight complex going on.

Yeah, it's definitely not always as simple as completely walking into it with open eyes - life and relationships are rarely that simple. Mind you, some seem to have done that. But a lot describe a really great initial period before all sorts of unacceptable insanity was unleashed, in which case it's harder to blame them.

I have mixed feelings too in that it is kind of sad that BPD has such an immense stigma attached to it. It used to be that all forms of mental illness had a major stigma. Now, for instance, so many people have experience of depression, and so many are so open about it, that the stigma is at least a lot less. But with BPD, people get judged totally unsuitable for relationships, etc. Which seems sad.

But then, on the other hand - the evidence indicates that this is a disorder which can SERIOUSLY destroy the lives of others who are drawn into its vortex, or at least mess things up pretty brutally. And for myself, even having a bit of experience with a friend (not a spouse, for instance) who has tendencies in that direction (though she may not necessarily be "BPD"), I know it can be seriously, seriously exhausting and even frightening. I've had enough people tell me to walk away completely from that "friendship".

I think if someone really unquestionably has it, they have to be willing to face up to it and get help, and those involved in their life have to be very patient and supportive and resilient. And it's hard to get all those factors to work together.

 

[SilkRoad]

It's definitely true. I slightly recognized these tendencies in myself during the first 4 months of my relationship with a BPD girl, but the drama was absolutely too unattractive. Plus I have a big ego and I couldn't believe a word of what she periodically said of my personality, my intelligence, my body, etc. (lots and lots of negative stuff), so I lost all the respect. I could see some "milder" guys having more trouble with that.

Interesting I think that in a relationship, in the early stages a lot of people can mistake what is full-on crazy drama and over-the-top intensity and jealousy for exciting sexuality and closeness. I mean, there are certainly a lot of people of both genders who are turned on by jealousy, though I don't get it and I think if you are turned on by more than a hint of it it indicates serious insecurity in yourself. But the next thing you know, all that sexual excitement can have worn off to leave nothing but frightening intensity and possessiveness and dislocation from reality which is anything but attractive. This seems to be the pattern in much/most of what I read online in people's experiences. They even described how the woman (usually) would be crazily sexual to begin with but then became "frigid" later.

The trouble with these stories is that they're all one-sided, of course. But a lot of them were surprisingly honest about themselves. And it is difficult to know if you can believe the other side of the story if it comes from a person with a tenuous grasp on reality.

 

[ICUP]

I was googling some stuff about BPD. There is an awful lot out there for/by men who have or have had girlfriends and wives with BPD. While I felt for them, I also felt that they could have exercised a bit more caution before getting into such relationships in the first place. I get the impression that some men are drawn to such women like moths to a flame - some combination of finding them very sexual, and wanting to rescue them - and then find themselves in over their heads.

I don't think it's the "rescue" type that tends to be drawn to borderlines, in the way you are speaking of. It's usually someone either with codependency or apd. I think there are some men (protector types) that like to "straighten out" and do for ladies who need help. That basically describes my S.O. It's not only borderlines he helps out.

Hmm... I had a roommate who had some tendencies in that direction too, some years ago. An ESFJ. I definitely questioned my reality and sanity when I was around her, a lot.

That's normal. If you stay around them long enough, you may become ill as well.