When people are drunk: in vino veritas, or a load of rubbish?

[SilkRoad]

Like many of us, I've had people say some unexpected things to me when they were drunk. Someone who's always professed strict platonic feelings for you will tell you how devastatingly attractive they find you; or they'll say something terrible about their group of "best friends"; or something along those lines.

I am really not sure if people tend to tell the truth more when they are drunk (in vino veritas) or if it's more likely to be meaningless nonsense based, at most, on a passing impulse of the moment. Opinion seems to be divided on this.

What do you think? People will often use it as an excuse: "oh, I was really drunk," or they'll discount something their friend said because the friend was drunk. On the other hand, apparently you can have amazing moments of epiphany and revelation this way, too...

Does it really vary from person to person? Does it make some much more likely to say what they really think/feel, and others more likely to say something full of sound and fury, signifying nothing?

 

[Lark]

I'm a big fan of soberiety, not simply that which is associated with being abstentious from alcoholic or narcotic fugues but generally. So I dont really think that alcohol or drugs (I know you didnt mention drugs but I think of them in the same context so I'm bringing them in) as the way to epiphanies, I could just be a killjoy though.

So far as the truth of others, well, alcohol disinhibits, I dont necessarily believe that disinhibited people are truthful, just disinhibited. That's based on just on experience of being drunk myself and acting out of character or seeing others do likewise, its based on reading about the sorts of tricks esponiage professionals were taught for dealing with being intoxicated or shot with truth sirum.

 

[SilkRoad]

I'm a big fan of soberiety, not simply that which is associated with being abstentious from alcoholic or narcotic fugues but generally. So I dont really think that alcohol or drugs (I know you didnt mention drugs but I think of them in the same context so I'm bringing them in) as the way to epiphanies, I could just be a killjoy though.

So far as the truth of others, well, alcohol disinhibits, I dont necessarily believe that disinhibited people are truthful, just disinhibited. That's based on just on experience of being drunk myself and acting out of character or seeing others do likewise, its based on reading about the sorts of tricks esponiage professionals were taught for dealing with being intoxicated or shot with truth sirum.

I pretty much agree, at least as far as it not being a "good way" to have an epiphany. I avoid drunkenness based on my beliefs/morals (although I have overindulged before, but I really try to avoid it) and even if it does lead to someone making a "truthful" revelation...I don't think it's a great indication if you can only say what you think/feel if you're drunk. I also think the point about lowered inhibitions, rather than necessarily "truth", is a good one.

I still wonder though. I mean, I wonder if it's more likely to be along the lines of "oh what the heck, I'm going to say/do something stupid that I don't normally espouse at all, because it feels fun right now", or "I'm going to blurt out how I really feel because I don't feel as restricted/scared as usual." (Not that either of those would be the conscious chain of thought, but just a reflection of how people would behave.)

I've known a few too many people in recent years who seem to have got together with their SO because they'd both had a bit too much to drink and then made out, or someone got the courage from drinking to state their feelings. It seems to be a bit of a cultural thing over here as a relationship initiator. I think it's a pretty lame way to get together with someone who you might consider spending your life with. But then again, some of these couples seem quite good together.

 

[uncommonentity]

I think it depends on the individual. You have honest drunks and you have people who love to over exaggerate. Personally being intoxicated brings my sensing and feeling functions to the forefront and I lose the thought before the speech. This can often be a good thing but there are times where it's got me into trouble. I think it depends on how controlled of a drunk you are.

 

[FDG]

Depends a lot on personality. Some people with a strong super-ego might be able to spell the truth more easily under the spell of alchool. (whenever they find such truth to be excessively uncomfortable to hande in their usual model of operation). Some others, perhaps more impulsive, might be more likely to overestate and exaggerate some minuscle feeling.
I'd also say, there is a certain treshold which might result in "maximum openness". Such treshold is individual - some people might be naturally that way, others might need 2 drinks, others 5. Whenever such line is crossed, thoughts likely become so jumbled that they can't really be made sense of.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think it depends on personality as well, since personality heavily influences impulsivity and self-restraint, things that alcohol consumption does impact.

For two personal case studies:

My ESTP father is quite capable of being impulsive, aggressive, and critical when sober; it's only when he's completely drunk that he typically voices any deep positive emotions. This past weekend, my eldest was talking to me about it (because their grandfather does call the house drunk sometimes), and he says he knows when he's drunk because, aside from repeating himself endlessly and slurring his words, his grandfather "gets all gushy emotionally, which is kind of embarassing, and says a bunch of things I know he won't even remember saying tomorrow." With my dad, I think it IS a case where he does "feel" those things; but there is no real connection between his outward actions vs his internal feelings, and you only see the negative emotions or what seems to be apathy until he's been drinking and his guard is way down.

For me, typically, even when I've been heavily inebriated in the past at times, I'm still aware of what I'm saying or doing; I've found that my natural inhibitions are simply severely reduced, so I have to focus very hard in order to evaluate what I should actually do and say vs what I should keep a lid on. I'm aware of it all and still do it, it's just that it's like fighting through molasses.

The stuff I might do and say that seems impulsive (usually funny things) are typically things that run through my head normally but I just don't let myself do and say. I typically haven't said or done emotionally charged things when I've been drinking; if I've felt an intense emotion besides hilarity at all, it was usually just underlying sadness that I was always aware of anyway but typically hid from people.

Basically I think the alcohol removes restraint, so the more someone has repressed or cannot voice when sober, the more likely it will be expressed somehow when drunk.

There's also some impulsivity; I know there's more chance I would physically mess around with someone, no strings attached, when drunk. But that might also be the repression too, since I typically am consciously controlling that and/or downplaying any random attraction.

 

[SilkRoad]

Thanks all, interesting so far and I think I more or less agree that it can vary so much dependent on personality etc that being conclusive about it would be hard.

Question: What if someone you really liked and felt close to as a friend got really drunk and told you they hated your guts or something like that? How would you react? How would you approach it after you'd all sobered up? These things do occasionally happen out of the blue.

 

[Totenkindly]

I honestly don't know.
At the very least it would tell me there were issues that needed to be discussed between us.

And if they were just being impulsive, then that would be bad for the friendship too, because I'd feel like I couldn't trust them -- who knows what they might do or say when drinking?

 

[Lark]

I've known a few too many people in recent years who seem to have got together with their SO because they'd both had a bit too much to drink and then made out, or someone got the courage from drinking to state their feelings. It seems to be a bit of a cultural thing over here as a relationship initiator. I think it's a pretty lame way to get together with someone who you might consider spending your life with. But then again, some of these couples seem quite good together.

That it is, I'd not want to confess love to someone while drunk, how would that serve as a memory in the future? How would whoever's hearing it know its truth and not just someone chancing a line to try and get laid? That's what a think a lot of drunken hook ups are about, not sincere emotions.

Likewise I do think its a bit of a problem if you need alcohol to be a communicator or for "dutch courage", I've not always believed that, asking me this when I was seventeen and I could have answered it differently but a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and seventeen year old me wasnt smart anyway.

I think I'd try everything, disarming openness, written correspondence, anything other than a drunken reveal if I wanted to tell someone something about how I felt about them and didnt have the courage to do it.

 

[SilkRoad]

I honestly don't know.
At the very least it would tell me there were issues that needed to be discussed between us.

And if they were just being impulsive, then that would be bad for the friendship too, because I'd feel like I couldn't trust them -- who knows what they might do or say when drinking?

I can't say it's ever happened to me. I know it happens though. As you say, I think it would suggest that there are some underlying issues at the very least. Because if they didn't feel like that AT ALL, why would they say it? I think that's what it comes down to.

That it is, I'd not want to confess love to someone while drunk, how would that serve as a memory in the future? How would whoever's hearing it know its truth and not just someone chancing a line to try and get laid? That's what a think a lot of drunken hook ups are about, not sincere emotions.

Likewise I do think its a bit of a problem if you need alcohol to be a communicator or for "dutch courage", I've not always believed that, asking me this when I was seventeen and I could have answered it differently but a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then and seventeen year old me wasnt smart anyway.

I think I'd try everything, disarming openness, written correspondence, anything other than a drunken reveal if I wanted to tell someone something about how I felt about them and didnt have the courage to do it.

I suppose sometimes drunken reveals happen a bit randomly. But I'm not sure I would want to look at someone and think "well, I guess we would never have got together if we hadn't both been pissed that night."

It's strange about alcohol and socializing generally. Even for just...communicating, as you say. I have met many people in recent years who seem totally unable to socialize without drinking - mostly drinking an awful lot or even getting really drunk.

I think my initial reaction was that these people were more "social" and had better skills than I did, simply because they were the ones always going to parties, with loads of "friends", etc. However, I later realised that I never saw them socially without them being at least tipsy. What does that actually say about their social skills? And furthermore, what does it say about their friendships? If you're with a certain group socially all the time, yet always need to be drinking at the same time - seriously, you don't want to be around them sober? Great friendships.

Also, the really ugly side of the "friendships" based around getting together and drinking seems to be that if people were real friends to each other, they would try to stop each other from drinking more when it gets to the stage of being dangerous and ridiculous. But no, that so often doesn't seem to be the case. Ok sure, you can show yourself a "friend" by calling the ambulance when the other person passes out, or helping to get them home. You would have shown yourself a much better "friend", though, if at an earlier stage you'd said "hey man, I think we've all had a bit too much. It's time for water now, or I'll go home with you."

I don't want to be self-righteous - I like drinking in moderation, I've occasionally had a bit too much (usually egged on by others, though I take full responsibility), and I wouldn't deny that drinking (in moderation, I contend) can smooth the way a little bit as far as being pleasant and relaxing. But if you "need" it beyond that, or you need it to say certain things, or to feel comfortable around people, you definitely have a problem.

 

[Beargryllz]

I have been known to make outrageous fabrications while shitfaced

 

[Lark]

Also, the really ugly side of the "friendships" based around getting together and drinking seems to be that if people were real friends to each other, they would try to stop each other from drinking more when it gets to the stage of being dangerous and ridiculous. But no, that so often doesn't seem to be the case. Ok sure, you can show yourself a "friend" by calling the ambulance when the other person passes out, or helping to get them home. You would have shown yourself a much better "friend", though, if you'd said "hey man, I think we've all had a bit too much. It's time for water now, or I'll go home with you."

I've definitely seen that, I think it'd be great if people would actually say to one another, this round I'm only having a soft drink, what about you soft drink too, maybe drink a bit again before closing time but for now just skip a round. That used to be how it was when I was socialising when I was much younger, like first times heading out. Instead it seems to be about who can do the most damage now and it really is damage. Mind you I think everyone is so sold on the idea of free will and choice that they're too awkward to figure that questioning poor judgement is wrong or socially a faux pas, a lot of people are even less happy to hear it.

It'd be awful if something so random as simultaneously being intoxicated was the origin of a life term relationship.

 

[FDG]

Wow, ambulance? We must be thinking about rather different levels of drunk-ness...

 

[Giggly]

How you tell is if they apologize the next day. If they apologize, it wasn't true. If they don't apologize, it is true.

 

[SilkRoad]

Wow, ambulance? We must be thinking about rather different levels of drunk-ness...

Yup, ambulance. This actually happened (I wasn't there but heard about it.) Welcome to the UK. Or Sweden in the UK, also not great - the guy was a Swede and definitely an alcoholic.

Someone else told me about it and kind of took the moral high ground because they were with a group and while the rest of them took off to go to a nightclub (how sad is that?), he hung around and went in the ambulance with the guy to the hospital. Which of course was a good and responsible thing to do, but I think they're all somewhat culpable for not stopping the guy from drinking quite so much in the first place. It's not like someone can drink THAT much without you even noticing.

How you tell is if they apologize the next day. If they apologize, it wasn't true. If they don't apologize, it is true.

The trouble is, sometimes they don't remember anything. A guy "friend" offered to punch me when he was drunk, because I'd made a joke which had annoyed him. Even at the time I didn't exactly fear for myself physically, but I wasn't remotely amused. When I cast it up to him the next day, he didn't remember. I had to convince him that he'd actually said it. Then he was kind of horrified and profusely apologetic. But people use drunkenness as all kinds of excuses. Sorry, but if you were drunk, it is not an excuse to offer to punch someone, to actually punch someone, to commit murder or rape, or whatever it is. You chose to get drunk, no one forced you.

I'm glad I don't have many people like this in my circle of acquaintances these days. I did for a few years, and was always caught between feeling left out because they didn't include me much, and feeling uncomfortable when they did include me because they were drunk and I didn't want to be.

 

[FDG]

Well, you must be very, very drunk if you don't remember what you have done the night before. I've been like that only twice in my life, only once kinda badly (the first and last time I vomited). If such a thing happens frequently, it seems to be extremely damaging health-wise.

 

[Giggly]

The trouble is, sometimes they don't remember anything. A guy "friend" offered to punch me when he was drunk, because I'd made a joke which had annoyed him. Even at the time I didn't exactly fear for myself physically, but I wasn't remotely amused. When I cast it up to him the next day, he didn't remember. I had to convince him that he'd actually said it. Then he was kind of horrified and profusely apologetic. But people use drunkenness as all kinds of excuses. Sorry, but if you were drunk, it is not an excuse to offer to punch someone, to actually punch someone, to commit murder or rape, or whatever it is. You chose to get drunk, no one forced you.

Well, I need to be clear that what I'm referring to is if you should extend someone's stated intentions when they are drunk to their sober state. It's actually a mistake to do that, in general. What I mean is that when they say something or behave in a certain way when drunk, it means they will behave in that way when they are drunk, not necessarily when they are sober. I say this in veritas and I'm sober.

So in your case, that guy said he'd punch you while he was drunk. whether he'd punch you when he's sober is kind of irrelevant because it's enough that he said he would when he's drunk. Some drunks are more fun and/or tolerable than others.

 

[Totenkindly]

I can't say it's ever happened to me. I know it happens though. As you say, I think it would suggest that there are some underlying issues at the very least. Because if they didn't feel like that AT ALL, why would they say it? I think that's what it comes down to.

Yes, exactly. They wouldn't say it unless it was already in there... or unless they were just being mercurially mean, which means I'd have to be more wary of them.

I don't want to be self-righteous - I like drinking in moderation, I've occasionally had a bit too much (usually egged on by others, though I take full responsibility), and I wouldn't deny that drinking (in moderation, I contend) can smooth the way a little bit as far as being pleasant and relaxing. But if you "need" it beyond that, or you need it to say certain things, or to feel comfortable around people, you definitely have a problem.

Yup... good analysis. And that this point, it's really just a crutch for a weakness in character -- no judgment meant, but it's how it is functioning in the psyche. That's why alcohol is sometimes called "liquid courage." The goal is to develop the courage and/or ability to communicate when one is in one's full mental capacity. My father never did that; he's almost 70 and never got past the need for alcohol in order to function. That's disappointing. I do understand why some use it for that, and might need it for awhile, but eventually you have to move forward if you want something deeper and more real.

I have been known to make outrageous fabrications while shitfaced

are you shitfaced right now?

Wow, ambulance? We must be thinking about rather different levels of drunk-ness...

I always knew you were a lightweight.

yeah. I know I've seen some serious boozing -- not me, but people I've been with. The worst was usualy years ago at college, but the last party I was at over the summer (and it was just a small friends party), one girl I didn't know well was drinking covertly while playing drums for Rock Band, and at a later point in the evening simply fell over on the floor, out cold. *headshake* The party wasn't even that wild.

ANyway, my dad would have died of alcohol poisoning six years ago if we hadn't gotten an ambulance for him, and he ended up being in a coma for two days and in physical therapy for three months after to walk again. So I've seen some serious sh*t too.

How you tell is if they apologize the next day. If they apologize, it wasn't true. If they don't apologize, it is true.

...Or they forgot they said it.

Although I think someone's quite capable of apologizing for something mean they said, that they might have meant but are afraid of the ramifications now if they don't apologize.

Hmmm. So I guess I don't agree.
(Sorry, I started out by thinking I did, lol!)

 

[SilkRoad]

Well, you must be very, very drunk if you don't remember what you have done the night before. I've been like that only twice in my life, only once kinda badly (the first and last time I vomited). If such a thing happens frequently, it seems to be extremely damaging health-wise.

It's very common over here, unfortunately. I try not to hang out with those kinds of people these days but you always hear people saying they can't remember what happened the night before. Damaging health-wise and also dangerous, I'd say.

I had a neighbour who drank a lot and one day he told me he'd woken up by the side of the road, having been hit by a car. He didn't remember anything. No joke. Fortunately he wasn't severely injured. He said it was a wake-up call for him to sober up. However, a few months later my impression was he was back to drinking just as much. He also used to hit on me when drunk.

I think continental Europeans (except maybe Scandinavians...that's been my experience in London, and I can also say it cause I'm half Scandinavian ) have a more reasonable approach to alcohol, or at least they don't go in for the binge drinking thing so much.

 

[Randomnity]

Like many of us, I've had people say some unexpected things to me when they were drunk. Someone who's always professed strict platonic feelings for you will tell you how devastatingly attractive they find you; or they'll say something terrible about their group of "best friends"; or something along those lines.

I am really not sure if people tend to tell the truth more when they are drunk (in vino veritas) or if it's more likely to be meaningless nonsense based, at most, on a passing impulse of the moment. Opinion seems to be divided on this.

What do you think? People will often use it as an excuse: "oh, I was really drunk," or they'll discount something their friend said because the friend was drunk. On the other hand, apparently you can have amazing moments of epiphany and revelation this way, too...

Does it really vary from person to person? Does it make some much more likely to say what they really think/feel, and others more likely to say something full of sound and fury, signifying nothing?

For me, it's "the truth of the moment". It just removes my censor so I'm more likely to say the thought on my mind. This could be a deep truth or it could also be something that I haven't thought out completely, or something that is true in one frame of mind, especially a drunken one, and not necessarily in another situation (like "ohhh I feel X" when it's true at the moment but not necessarily any other time, so it can be misinterpreted).


(this is kinda like how I imagine extroverts to be all the time, hahaha )

ps - every relationship I've had has been started under at least some influence of alcohol (not ridiculous amounts necessarily). That's just how it's worked out, haha. It can be a useful tool for the socially anxious, if used carefully.