delusional self-identity

[Grayscale]

i have become increasingly disappointed by the lack of congruity between how people project themselves and how they actually are.

are people naturally inclined to present themselves as having more substance than they do, or less? i.e., will they take liberties with reality

could this be a symptom of the tendency people have to favor themselves rather than self-applying the same critique given to other things?

are people inclined to mimic and absorb things in order to form their self-identity?

do they do it on purpose, or do they suffer from some degree of delusion?


what purpose, ultimately, does one's opinion of one's self serve?

discuss.


http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/bonfire/4425-i-am.html#post155939

 

[WobblyStilettos]

Well, looking at the human race as a whole we are all almost exactly the same. For the sake of one's sanity, I think it is necessary to believe that we are different, special. If we didn't, everything would seem a bit pointless. It is this need that drives people to achieve amazing things and to push the boundaries, I think.

 

[GZA]

I think a lot of it just has to do with how people are. Everyone has their introverted and extraverted sides of their personality, like yin and yang, and people are obviously going to see the extraverted side more no matter what, so when someone spills the introverted part, or it slowly reveals itself to you, it may seem incongruent.


However, there are still definitely a lot of people who have "social masks", and I think its sad that people do that.

 

[SillySapienne]

Self-awareness is an inward form of consciousness that can be found in many, if not most human beings. It is developed and utilized in various degrees, of course, in some people being more highly developed and in others being more crudely conceived.

As social beings, the act of observing and mimicking others, serves as a crucial aspect in the integration of our understanding of our selves in contrast and comparison to other human beings.

I don't know, perhaps it is a matter of personal preference, perhaps some people don't even really care to know themselves...

The process of self-discovery via self-awareness/analysis has always been considered immensely important to me, and therefore has been diligently sought after by me. I am one who deeply believes that the surest way of *truly* understanding others, can only be achieved when one first, and foremost, honestly and accurately understands himself.

 

[Seanan]

Frankly, I don't care to see behind the mask of some.

 

[nozflubber]

Many psychology theories say that people have a tendancy to view themselves in a positive light, regardless of acts. It's a requirement of a healthy person. I think this is the only well-accepted theory in both clinical and social psych.

 

[disregard]

Re OP: It's natural to present yourself in a what you perceive to be a good light, but I don't quite get what you're getting at..

 

[Mort Belfry]

We're all delusional man.

 

[SillySapienne]

We're all delusional man.

Sad but true.

Still, that doesn't excuse the potential danger it causes, and the weakness in character it exposes.

Yes, we are all delusional to a certain extent, but some are *far* more delusional than others.

Just because "absolute truth" will never be found doesn't negate or deter the importance of seeking knowledge. One can get *closer* to the truth, and the process of getting closer, i.e. via exploration and discovery, provides sufficient reason to continue searching.

This actually reminds me of a particularly moving dedication I came across in one of my evolutionary bio. text books, where the author dedicates his book, "To all those readers who are seeking promising answers rather than final ones"

for those that *seek* truth!!!

 

[Grayscale]

Re OP: It's natural to present yourself in a what you perceive to be a good light, but I don't quite get what you're getting at..

Many psychology theories say that people have a tendancy to view themselves in a positive light, regardless of acts. It's a requirement of a healthy person. I think this is the only well-accepted theory in both clinical and social psych.

so it's healthy for people to view themselves positively whether they ought to or not? wouldnt that be ignoring reality (and by reality, i mean the most qualified logic available)...

i would agree to say that this is normal behavior, but not necessarily healthy--which is sort-of what im getting at here.

there may be a good reason for people to be functionally delusional, but let's not mince words.

We're all delusional man.

one cannot escape the boundaries of their own perspective, but they can make an effort to consider themselves objectively and identify their own limits instead of assuming them.

i think a vast majority of people have a bad habit out of building themselves upon self-centered and presumptuous convictions rather than sticking to the facts.

i suspect this comes from a lack of the true confidence it takes to trust that you can still come out on top if you are realistic with yourself (people are afraid of what they dont know, that is why they shield themselves from the sort of things that have unknown implications). this becomes apparent when something occurs that crumbles the inflated self-opinion that results when people go through life unchecked.

when you think you've won, you've lost.

why do you think so many people get offended? because their image is merely a composite of unoriginal fragments perpetuated by the opinions of others. as soon as something disrupts this, they become vulnerable because they do not have their own, legitimate reasons for doing what they do.

 

[SillySapienne]

This is an interesting article that sort of pertains to the topic...

"Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments"

http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf

 

[nightning]

are people naturally inclined to present themselves as having more substance than they do, or less? i.e., will they take liberties with reality

As Dana said already. It's human nature to present(mis-present) their best qualities to others. Humans are social creatures... if society indicates "substance" is of importance... In order to fit in, what else can people project but that?

do they do it on purpose, or do they suffer from some degree of delusion?

This self-delusion that you speak of happens in both the conscious and unconscious level. If I recall from my psychology class correctly... there are two types of narcissists. The "stable" one who has absolutely no awareness of personal flaws... the unconscious self-delusionist... versus the defensive narcissist who is unconsciously aware of his self-discrepancies. With that said, there's also no reason why people might not deliberately chose to pretend either. As stated above... Society dictates; sheep will follow.

could this be a symptom of the tendency people have to favor themselves rather than self-applying the same critique given to other things?

That is the definition of the narcissists is it not? To be overly critical of others... to dismiss outside opinions while elevating the importance of his own. Double standards.

Although I must say the "narcissism" trait lies on a continuum... The paradoxical "healthy narcissism" apparently does work. Narcissism linking to self confidence. Perception affecting performance which in turn affects outcome. Plenty of psyc experiments out there demonstrating such.

are people inclined to mimic and absorb things in order to form their self-identity?

What's the basis for self-identity? You need a starting point... What is mathematics without its axioms? Same deal really... There is no technology without physics, there is no physics without math, there is no math without axioms. Want to develop new technology? You need a foundation in the basics... Sure, you can build it up all from the fundamentals again, but that takes time of which you don't have. How different is that from building your self-identity? Mimicry/absorption gives you a starting point. Human mind makes the intuitive leap. The known foundation might be flawed, but it existed for so long such that the flaws that remained could not have be too critical... why not save yourself some time and utilize it?

what purpose, ultimately, does one's opinion of one's self serve?

Perception = subjective reality

Opinion affects perception; perception affects emotions & reactions (blah! emotion, perception, reaction triangle); reaction affects external response affects outcome; outcome stored in memory affects opinion... repeat cycle.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I think this is the only well-accepted theory in both clinical and social psych.

I think you need to study more psych.

Re: OP, people distort the way the way they perceive themselves and the way other perceive them because they can't bare the truth. Merging these two identities (the false self and the authentic self) is one of the great tests of life.

P.S. Check out Winnicott. Smart guy.

 

[Domino]

Bringing into consideration that all reality to some degree is subjective and impossible to objectively quantify (the constant grappling by science to find a baseline to quantify will never be at an end), I think perception - personal and otherwise - assists our brains' ability to decide whether something/someone means us harm or help, is a good genetic mate (on sight, without interview or test for times past when communication was gleaned strictly through non-verbal signals), or will be competition.

Is the perceptual part of the cognition located in the primal or "lizard" brain, do you think?

I like to believe the best of people. That's clearly both a good and entirely fallacious outlook on life. No one has your best interest always. YOU don't even have your best interest always. So perhaps a percentage of the time, I'm believing a lie in anticipation of an outcome that may or may not end well. However, I persist with this perception because it's pretty much hardwired into my brain to want to trust people, herd animal that I am.

I like to believe (as all NFJs do) that I'm not the demon I sometimes see in the mirror. I perceive that all my intentions or actions have some underlying meritorious root, even if they don't, and that encourages me to continue to seek communion with others in spite of my less-than-altruistic behaviors which have just as much a chance of passing away unnoticed or unacted-upon as they do extroverting and making me look like a jerk (i.e. a flawed human being who wants to eat your pie and take your shoes).

 

[Domino]

I think you need to study more psych.

Re: OP, people distort the way the way they perceive themselves and the way other perceive them because they can't bare the truth. Merging these two identities (the false self and the authentic self) is one of the great tests of life.

P.S. Check out Winnicott. Smart guy.

I have trouble believing that the "authentic" self can exist. By what measure is that self validated as "authentic"? How can a baseline be established in a purely subjective area, unless electrodes are attached to your head to determine what regions of the brain light up when activated under controlled conditions? Even then, it bears no real quantifiable moral implications, only organic ones.

The best we can do, in my opinion, is gauge ourselves by how well our personal perceptions align with the greater percentage of our "set" and the social mores of our present culture (a standard issue cannibal among the other headhunters is a "good" cannibal/neighbor/etc.)

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I have trouble believing that the "authentic" self can exist. By what measure is that self validated as "authentic"?

These are 3 separate issues, seems to me:
(1) Is there an authentic self?
(2) How can we determine what is authentic and what isn't, as the subject?
(3) How can we determine what is authentic and what isn't, as an observer?

(1) I think there is an authentic self. I would define it as undistorted self-expression. This basically means you're not afraid or ashamed of feeling/being who you are. Thoughts and feelings pour out naturally. This doesn't mean you act on all of them, but that you allow yourself to feel them.
(2) How do *I* know I'm there? I can feel it. I feel like I have nowhere to go and no one to be and my mind is quiet.
(3) How do others know I'm there? There's no great way of knowing for sure, but I think you can see it in subtle ways. Body language, spontaneity, speech, smile, rhythm of movements, timing, etc.

 

[heart]

If there is no authentic self to be sought and to strive for being, then I would prefer to just pack it all in now, there would be no point to going on with this farce called life.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Add: The worst thing a person can do in their quest for authenticity is look for it, because that defeats the whole purpose, ironically. I think that's the reason authenticity can be so elusive.

 

[Domino]

These are 3 separate issues, seems to me:
(1) Is there an authentic self?

I believe there can be, but as to determining it concretely? Like trying to locate the "mind" and not it's supposed organic location, the brain. The authentic self is merely a projection or a shadow. As an NF, I compulsively seek it, but if I were objective about it, where and what exactly am I seeking?

(2) How can we determine what is authentic and what isn't, as the subject?

In my opinion, you can't, except through completely personal means. Even if one could determine an "authentic" self, how can you prove it's relevance to 3 dimensional "here and now"? As an NF, I don't have to have the unseen and immaterial explained to me because I tend to accept things on "faith" (i.e. without the need for concrete data), but just for the sake of argument (and you know a good debate turns you on), what's the point of pursuit of the authentic self when it has no address or shape?

(3) How can we determine what is authentic and what isn't, as an observer?

Fish don't need pants. Would a fish be "inauthentic" in pants?

(1) I think there is an authentic self. I would define it as undistorted self-expression. This basically means you're not afraid or ashamed of feeling/being who you are. Thoughts and feelings pour out naturally. This doesn't mean you act on all of them, but that you allow yourself to feel them.

All right, may I ask what tells you that an expression has become distorted? It just feels "wrong" somehow? Also, shame seems to indicate that a person is correlating their actions/attitudes with the general populace and determining the validity/acceptability of such actions/attitudes.

(2) How do *I* know I'm there? I can feel it. I feel like I have nowhere to go and no one to be and my mind is quiet.

How Buddhist of you, Richard Gere. *poke*

(3) How do others know I'm there? There's no great way of knowing for sure, but I think you can see it in subtle ways. Body language, spontaneity, speech, smile, rhythm of movements, timing, etc.

How others know Edahn is present: by the constant stream of maundering ramble-ations that proceed from the alleged mouth part of the alleged face of said alleged being.

 

[Domino]

Add: The worst thing a person can do in their quest for authenticity is look for it, because that defeats the whole purpose, ironically. I think that's the reason authenticity can be so elusive.

You prefer the "trip over truth" method, do you?

You refer to flow. Letting things just happen. I like that way too, but with a little targeted searching thrown in. Idling about while the cosmos hogs the restroom isn't my idea of enlightenment.