Is happiness natural?

[Elfboy]

I am happy because I am safe, have a roof over my head, am not in any serious pain and don't have to fight for my survival. how can someone who lives in the wilderness, is unsafe nearly 24 hours a day and has to deal with hunger and pain be happy? is it possible to be happy without enough money to have safety, enough food/water and some level of comfort?

 

[funkadelik]

Perhaps, perhaps not.

But people are resilient creatures and who says what makes you happy makes another person happy? There's no one-size-fits-all when it comes to happiness and many people in "challenging" situations find solace (and even joy) in things others who aren't in those situations might overlook or not value as much.

So yes, I would say, theoretically speaking, it's possible to be happy without those things.

 

[Litvyak]

I wouldn't define 'happiness' as a consequence of the fulfillment of basic needs. If you have food and safety, you still feel a need to connect with your peers or express yourself in different ways. The guy in the wilderness struggles for food, you struggle for appreciation, you're both preoccupied, and I don't think he's less likely to feel 'happy' than you are.

I don't even think he feels less content than you do. For you, food and safety has been a given since a long time, so losing it would harm you deeply, but preserving it wouldn't make you much more content, whereas he feels great on the rare occasion when such an important need is finally fulfilled.

 

[Tiger Owl]

I believe happiness is an emotional response that is (like most emotions) untrustworthy and fleeting. But, as far as I am concerned I think I would not consider myself "happy" or "unhappy". I trend instead toward variants of content and discontent.

We are very different. For example:

"I am happy because I am safe, have a roof over my head, am not in any serious pain and don't have to fight for my survival."

When the above is my condition I grow lazy, complacent, apathetic, weak and slow, and I lose my edge/instincts become dulled. Thus, I am a chore to be around and I am discontent - "unhappy".

In contrast:

"How can someone who lives in the wilderness, is unsafe nearly 24 hours a day and has to deal with hunger and pain be happy? is it possible to be happy without enough money to have safety, enough food/water and some level of comfort?"

When the above is my lot I am sharp, focused, intensely interested and alert to the minute happenings around me (even more so than usual), I return to my peak mental and physical condition with ease as apposed to fighting to maintain them. I enjoy the challenges and puzzles to overcome and in general I am at peace, in my element and content - "happy".

A few side notes for clarity:
The wilderness is a sanctuary to those who understand it, not a source of fear and insecurity. There are times where safety is less than ideal but far fewer than when we are in any given city. Hunger and pain are transient and only serve to remind us that our bodies are leaving the homeostatic happy place and we should do something to return them there.

Most importantly, the premise that money = safety is patently false. Money can buy you bigger, better blinders but safety it cannot purchase (unless you are renting the time and skills of those who have understanding and preparedness to deal with your safekeeping). Only understanding and preparation can make one safer, some of which requires some money but most of which is mental. Keep in mind, experts have agreed that every major city is but 4 meals away from utter collapse if the supply lines, etc. failed. Can you survive when the grocery stores are empty, travel is unsafe, and there is no running water, sewage, electricity?

 

[Elfboy]

I believe happiness is an emotional response that is (like most emotions) untrustworthy and fleeting. But, as far as I am concerned I think I would not consider myself "happy" or "unhappy". I trend instead toward variants of content and discontent.

We are very different. For example:

"I am happy because I am safe, have a roof over my head, am not in any serious pain and don't have to fight for my survival."

When the above is my condition I grow lazy, complacent, apathetic, weak and slow, and I lose my edge/instincts become dulled. Thus, I am a chore to be around and I am discontent - "unhappy".

In contrast:

"How can someone who lives in the wilderness, is unsafe nearly 24 hours a day and has to deal with hunger and pain be happy? is it possible to be happy without enough money to have safety, enough food/water and some level of comfort?"

When the above is my lot I am sharp, focused, intensely interested and alert to the minute happenings around me (even more so than usual), I return to my peak mental and physical condition with ease as apposed to fighting to maintain them. I enjoy the challenges and puzzles to overcome and in general I am at peace, in my element and content - "happy".

A few side notes for clarity:
The wilderness is a sanctuary to those who understand it, not a source of fear and insecurity. There are times where safety is less than ideal but far fewer than when we are in any given city. Hunger and pain are transient and only serve to remind us that our bodies are leaving the homeostatic happy place and we should do something to return them there.

Most importantly, the premise that money = safety is patently false. Money can buy you bigger, better blinders but safety it cannot purchase (unless you are renting the time and skills of those who have understanding and preparedness to deal with your safekeeping). Only understanding and preparation can make one safer, some of which requires some money but most of which is mental. Keep in mind, experts have agreed that every major city is but 4 meals away from utter collapse if the supply lines, etc. failed. Can you survive when the grocery stores are empty, travel is unsafe, and there is no running water, sewage, electricity?

your X is an N. INTJs live for mental challenges and become board and apathetic if their large mental appetites aren't satisfied

 

[Oaky]

Happiness can be an unconscious or conscious response.

 

[fripping]

yes it is natural, your brain squirts out just enough to keep you from killing yourself. 'you' and 'yourself' meaning 'me' and 'myself'.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I think you can argue that misery is natural. Misery makes people want more and more and eradicate competitors. Ancestors who are miserable would procreate with more success than their non-miserable counterparts.

 

[guesswho]

I believe happiness is an emotional response that is (like most emotions) untrustworthy and fleeting. But, as far as I am concerned I think I would not consider myself "happy" or "unhappy".

me2

 

[Kyrielle]

I am happy because I am safe, have a roof over my head, am not in any serious pain and don't have to fight for my survival. how can someone who lives in the wilderness, is unsafe nearly 24 hours a day and has to deal with hunger and pain be happy? is it possible to be happy without enough money to have safety, enough food/water and some level of comfort?

I don't see how the second set of conditions could guarantee someone would not be happy/content. Plus, it depends on how long someone has been under either set of conditions. If you've lived all your life without money, safety (which is relative), or enough food or water, then your definitions of comfort, contentment, and happiness will be defined in entirely different ways.

 

[ThatGirl]

@ OP

You're assuming that being under these conditions never leads to adaptation. It is rare that someone who was constantly fighting for their lives and struggling to find food, water, or shelter would have time or room to feel much happiness beyond the occasional small victory.

It is also highly unlikely someone will STAY in that level of intense living without adapting in some way to make it more satisfying. Whether it is carving out a nest of leaves to make as a bed, learning where to go to find food and water quickly, storing some on hand, or creating some type of defense from the external world, animals. People adapt, and in doing so find relief, and happiness.

I'd say it is very much a natural biological drive.

 

[Thalassa]

your X is an N. INTJs live for mental challenges and become board and apathetic if their large mental appetites aren't satisfied

Um, he could be a smart ISTJ. I've known several smart ISTJs. Many of them are things like doctors, lawyers, and engineers. Did you miss the part where he said "alert to his surroundings"? Doing puzzles doesn't imply INTJ over ISTJ at all.

@OP: happiness is natural. So is contentment, suffering, and sadness.

 

[Tiger Owl]

your X is an N. INTJs live for mental challenges and become board and apathetic if their large mental appetites aren't satisfied

Very good to know! I do have some serious ISTJ tendencies as well, I leave it an x because I always test one or the other or 50/50 but the expression of the type in daily living is very situationally dependent. The ITJ is very constant.

 

[Tiger Owl]

Um, he could be a smart ISTJ. I've known several smart ISTJs. Many of them are things like doctors, lawyers, and engineers. Did you miss the part where he said "alert to his surroundings"? Doing puzzles doesn't imply INTJ over ISTJ at all.

@OP: happiness is natural. So is contentment, suffering, and sadness.

Hello again Marmie Dearest. I am in fact a medical student. My alertness stems from innate hyper-vigilance reinforced by military training. I must be watchful because I know most people are not. When bad things happen to good people they happen fast. No point in me being unable to protect those less likely to protect themselves. Puzzles, however, enthrall me and that is one of the primary reasons I am a student of human behavior/personality. It is a fluid and dynamic puzzle within which typology systems erect a latticework of systemic deduction. The best part is being able to read between the lines and fill in the gaps.

 

[Thalassa]

Hello again Marmie Dearest. I am in fact a non-traditional 2nd year osteopathic medical student. My alertness stems from innate hyper-vigilance reinforced by military training. I must be watchful because I know most people are not. When bad things happen to good people they happen fast. No point in me being unable to protect those less likely to protect themselves. Puzzles, however, enthrall me and that is one of the primary reasons I am a student of human behavior/personality. It is a fluid and dynamic puzzle within which typology systems erect a latticework of systemic deduction. The best part is being able to read between the lines and fill in the gaps.

I think it's too soon to rule out either ISTJ or INTJ. Did you get a chance to take the PTypes temperament quiz, or read the Keirsey temperaments, or the Jungian Ni and Si descriptions?

 

[OrangeAppled]

I am happy because I am safe, have a roof over my head, am not in any serious pain and don't have to fight for my survival. how can someone who lives in the wilderness, is unsafe nearly 24 hours a day and has to deal with hunger and pain be happy? is it possible to be happy without enough money to have safety, enough food/water and some level of comfort?

I'm confused.....is this considered a "natural" state?
It seems to me it is natural for people to stabilize their environment so they can more easily fulfill basic needs & then focus on higher needs, slowly moving up that "hierarchy of needs" towards happiness. Yes, I'm referring to Maslow's Pyramid, as a general guide for what people generally need to cultivate happiness.

I don't think happiness is emotion. Happy people still have bad days, bad moods, negative emotions, etc. A lot of people confuse having fun & feeling pleasant with happiness, but I think these are experiences & moods. I think happiness is an overall feeling - and yes I mean a feeling-valuation, not a mood - of contentment from being fulfilled beyond basic survival. However, even if someone finds basic needs a struggle, they may be fulfilling higher needs, like love, self-respect, and progress in their personal achievement. So such a person may feel a measure of happiness, enough to call themselves happy.

I think in cultures where we live in relative luxury, we may make things into basic needs that are not basic needs but material luxuries, and it prevents us from achieving higher needs because we're distracted in pursuing these material things. A simpler life may allow a person to focus on those higher needs more.

@ OP

You're assuming that being under these conditions never leads to adaptation. It is rare that someone who was constantly fighting for their lives and struggling to find food, water, or shelter would have time or room to feel much happiness beyond the occasional small victory.

It is also highly unlikely someone will STAY in that level of intense living without adapting in some way to make it more satisfying. Whether it is carving out a nest of leaves to make as a bed, learning where to go to find food and water quickly, storing some on hand, or creating some type of defense from the external world, animals. People adapt, and in doing so find relief, and happiness.

I'd say it is very much a natural biological drive.

Yes

 

[Tiger Owl]

I think it's too soon to rule out either ISTJ or INTJ. Did you get a chance to take the PTypes temperament quiz, or read the Keirsey temperaments, or the Jungian Ni and Si descriptions?

I don't want to commandeer OP's thread but yes I am working through the article, I want to take time to digest and ponder. I took the PTypes quiz and got:
Temperament Score
Idealist 7
Rationalist 14
Traditionalist 6
Hedonist 3
Your temperament type is Rationalist.

Difficult wording on some of the questions because I would answer them differently based on the situation/audience.

you could help me with this if you like... Page 31 post #302 http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315&p=1675658

 

[Salomé]

An interviewer once asked Tennessee Williams: “What is your definition of happiness?”

He replied, “Insensitivity, I guess.”

 

[Tiger Owl]

An interviewer once asked Tennessee Williams: “What is your definition of happiness?”

He replied, “Insensitivity, I guess.”

Great quote. If that held true I would be very happy in social situations and miserable around my children, thankfully it is quite the opposite.

 

[Elfboy]

Um, he could be a smart ISTJ. I've known several smart ISTJs. Many of them are things like doctors, lawyers, and engineers. Did you miss the part where he said "alert to his surroundings"? Doing puzzles doesn't imply INTJ over ISTJ at all.

@OP: happiness is natural. So is contentment, suffering, and sadness.

this isn't about being smart, I know several smart ISTJs as well. this is about needing to solve complex mental puzzles and getting board and lethargic without large amounts of mentally stimulating challenges. this is INTJ, not ISTJ.