Alcoholics.

[King sns]

Are there any here?
Personal question, I know.

 

[Ginkgo]

I don't know

 

[ICUP]

Me, but I am no longer. I was for a long time. I think I was and am capable of being an alcoholic, but I can drink beer in small amounts. It's the liquor that does me in. I've learned to control it, but I still get cravings. I just don't act on them. I can even drink some, but I prefer not to, as then I have to deal with the cravings for a week afterward.
My dad was much more involved. He was also estp 7w6 (interesting, eh?).....
And I think he became an alcoholic when he quit playing music (performing). He started spending a lot of time in bars, and his condition continued to deteriorate drastically over the years. He spent some time in rehab.

 

[Unkindloving]

There definitely are some here.
I drink in social situations, but become tired of it fairly quickly. I think when I was younger I think I teetered on alcoholism, but I had a few unhealthy habits back then.
To me, the definition can depend on circumstances, but I'm also not versed in the nature of alcoholism even though I've witnessed a lot of it in my lifetime. I have seen people who are drawn to it due to mental obstacles that they can overcome, but choose not to. I see people who are drawn to it regardless of their mental state. I see people who have aspects of their lives affected by it and are readily considered alcoholics, and those who can still function in their lives despite drinking constantly and are not considered such. I see people who drink socially, and I see people (or not quite) who only drink alone. Etc.

I personally define most people who feel a consistent urge to drink, to go out of their way and make it a part of their life experience frequently, an alcoholic to some degree. It doesn't matter if they can function. It's that dependency alone that says it.
While it is different, I wouldn't consider someone who did a little cocaine every day and still functioned properly to not have a problem. Things that are unhealthy, alter perspective and inhibition, and are used in attempt to quell other issues are inherently problems in my book when overused.
Do I think I have a problem when it comes to drinking socially? A bit, yes.

 

[Stigmata]

Whoa, this one's a little heavy. Anyways, I've never decided to publicly opened up about this until today. (sigh)

My mornings start off with me attempting to wash off last night's hangover with a warm dampened cloth and denial, followed by a quick vomiting of the excess alcohol to fully regain my composure. Then, it's off to the liquor store (Keep in mind that by this time it's roughly 9-10am). Once I get there, I both scrounge through both the ash tray and attempt to solicit some of my, uh, services, in an attempt to do a little fundraising for a day filled with vodka fueled escapades. By the time I've collected my money and cleaned my mouth, I go inside, browse the isles, make awkward purchasing conversation with the cashier and fellow alcoholics that refuse to see any sort of wrong in looking to score alcohol during the hours of which kids are still in school, and then return home. Once home, I sit out in the front yard in my lawn chair, while wearing a pair of gas station purchased sunglasses, and watch the day fade away in a haze of half-serious comments and cigarette smoke.

One of the highlights of the day at this point is watching the kids play kickball in the street, which is a mundane event in and of itself, but I then like to antagonize both their poor hand eye coordination skills and lack of talent; I especially like picking on one little neighborhood fat kid in particular, only because I enjoy listening to him rant on and on about how it's attributed to a thyroid problem as he sits on the curb eating an entire box of fruit roll-ups in one sitting. This last little bit accounts for about 40% of my conscious day, with everything afterwards appearing only in intermittent flashes. Around 5:00-5:45 or so, I'm generally awoken by the sound of the UPS man attempting to cross over my now passed out body on the sidewalk, followed by the faint sound of him expressing his concern to my neighbors that both me urinating on the sidewalks and exposing myself to local door-to-door girl scout tribes have started to become regular occurrences.

 

[Santosha]

Eh.. did you have a question about it?

 

[King sns]

Whoa, this one's a little heavy. Anyways, I've never decided to publicly opened up about this until today. (sigh)

My mornings start off with me attempting to wash off last night's hangover with a warm dampened cloth and denial, followed by a quick vomiting of the excess alcohol to fully regain my composure. Then, it's off to the liquor store (Keep in mind that by this time it's roughly 9-10am). Once I get there, I both scrounge through both the ash tray and attempt to solicit some of my, uh, services, in an attempt to do a little fundraising for a day filled with vodka fueled escapades. By the time I've collected my money and cleaned my mouth, I go inside, browse the isles, make awkward purchasing conversation with the cashier and fellow alcoholics that refuse to see any sort of wrong in looking to score alcohol during the hours of which kids are still in school, and then return home. Once home, I sit out in the front yard in my lawn chair, while wearing a pair of gas station purchased sunglasses, and watch the day fade away in a haze of half-serious comments and cigarette smoke.

One of the highlights of the day at this point is watching the kids play kickball in the street, which is a mundane event in and of itself, but I then like to antagonize both their poor hand eye coordination skills and lack of talent; I especially like picking on one little neighborhood fat kid in particular, only because I enjoy listening to him rant on and on about how it's attributed to a thyroid problem as he sits on the curb eating an entire box of fruit roll-ups in one sitting. This last little bit accounts for about 40% of my conscious day, with everything afterwards appearing only in intermittent flashes. Around 5:00-5:45 or so, I'm generally awoken by the sound of the UPS man attempting to cross over my now passed out body on the sidewalk, followed by the faint sound of him expressing his concern to my neighbors that both me urinating on the sidewalks and exposing myself to local door-to-door girl scout tribes have started to become regular occurrences.

Wow.........
I'm not really sure how to respond here, but thank you for sharing. I am running to an inservice in a bit but I will try to respond better later. Also, the bit about the fat kid is hilarious despite the heaviness of the rest of the post!!!

Eh.. did you have a question about it?

Um, well.
I don't know. I actually wrote this drunk, and then woke up and ran to the computer, wishing that I could delete a thread. No turning back now I guess.

I'm curious about how the thinking changes. I have been suspecting myself to have possible alcoholism because of a recent and sudden change in my relationship with alcohol. I actually don't drink every day. Probably twice a week, but I really don't like my relationship with alcohol anymore. I don't like myself when I'm drinking, and I don't seem to be able to stop. I recently called out of work with a bad hangover and lied. About a week ago. And I decided to stop drinking alone then.. "Only drink socially".... and have drank twice alone since. It seems that liquor is the problem.

It's true that I've always been able to hold my liquor. Drink and drink and drink and never appear to get drunk. As much as I really don't want to admit this, (and I'm not proud), am able to drive drunk with seeming ease. Have gotten pulled over drunk, (ran a red light,) and got out of it. The thinking wasn't the same though. It was just me going out and acting crazy. (ESFP Irish American Yankee.)

Lately I have been avoiding social drinking for fear of getting too drunk. I can physically not drink for a while, but it can't go on forever and then I just drink and don't stop. One of my cousins used to be drunk all the time and then jusstopped one day. He just won't drink anymore. He's not in AA, but just stopped. I relate to that. I think once your relationship with alcohol changes, it seems that it will stay that way...

My father is an alcoholic, but I've never met him. My mother's side, (known), is full of them. One of my best friends is one. Seems like a normal lifestyle to me, actually, just because of being surrounded.


So, that's my question I guess.... What's the thinking? (Or, anything else people are able to share....)

 

[Fidelia]

With strong family history as well as longterm use/social group, it sounds like you are at risk. The part about being able to hold copious amount of liquor without appearing drunk is one of the classic symptoms of being a coping alcoholic. You certainly don't have to drink all the time to have a problem with your relationship to alcohol. The phoning in sick, as well as the planning not to drink (or to drink alone) but doing it anyways, not being able to stop once you start (despite plans to the contrary) or choosing not to drink socially in case you overdo it and then doing it are symptoms worth paying attention to. Has alcohol affected your relationships to other people?

I think probably rather than just trying to stop, you also need to consider what kind of emotional need that alcohol answers for you (I say emotional because if you are doing it on your own, chances are it's not solely just a social thing). What about for the people around you? Do you know why they drink? You have taken big risks with yourself and other's lives by driving drunk too. What is it that you are getting back that makes it worth it to you to continue those sorts of behaviours?

Without understanding WHY you have the relationship that you do with alcohol, you cannot change it. I think it's easy to slowly lose perspective, just as you can when a romantic relationship starts becoming unhealthy. It takes guts for you to do what you've done here. Just as with any kind of other abuse, alcoholism thrives on secrecy.

From my observation, (and I've been close to alcoholics both in my family as well as dating someone for a long time who ended up having an alchol problem) the need that alcohol answers for the person doing the drinking becomes more important than any of the relationships in their life, unless they start finding other ways to address that need. I have come to believe that it is not a disease, but rather is an extreme form of selfishness. However, it is selfishness born out of unmet needs, much in the same way that someone may develop other unhealthy coping mechanisms to deal with insecurities, fears, boredom, loneliness etc. If you just quit and leave a void there, other unhealthy behaviours will creep in to replace alcohol or else you will just go back to it. If your closest circle uses alcohol (sometimes to deal with their problems), it would be a logical default for you to do so as well.

The sooner you can bring this to a head for yourself instead of coping with it, the better. I'm glad that you are recognizing yourself that it is something you may need to think about.
1) Have you done any research on the internet about symptoms of alcohol abuse? That might be a useful place to start if you haven't done it yet.
2) Do you have any other methods of dealing with stress? You may want to consider something like exercise as a replacement during the times when you really want to drink. It will help diminish stress, make you feel better, and it's something that you can do alone or with other people.
3) Do you have anyone you can talk to when something is weighing heavily on your mind? I think sometimes that in itself can release a lot of pressure that you may not even be consciously aware of because you are used to relieving it on your own. Failing that, even taking note of how you are feeling at times when you especially want to drink and writing it down, may help you to become more conscious of why/when you are drinking.

Good luck, ma'am! We're rooting for you!

 

[RDF]

Wow.........
I'm not really sure how to respond here, but thank you for sharing. I am running to an inservice in a bit but I will try to respond better later. Also, the bit about the fat kid is hilarious despite the heaviness of the rest of the post!!!

I think Stigmata’s playing it for laughs. His story sounds a bit over-the-top and Bukowski-inspired.

Um, well.
I don't know. I actually wrote this drunk, and then woke up and ran to the computer, wishing that I could delete a thread. No turning back now I guess.

As for the rest of your post, they say that if alcohol negatively affects your life in any way, then you’re an alcoholic. That definition is a bit too broad for my taste. But I can see their point. Once the stuff starts getting away from you, it can get pretty dangerous (especially the drinking and driving). Basically it’s one or the other: Either you can control it, or you can’t.

As for me, I drank kind of like you described. When I drank, I drank pretty hard. I was in the military and then college and I could always find friends ready to go out drinking. After a while of hard drinking, I would start feeling pretty sodden all the time and get tired of waking up with hangovers most mornings, so I would quit and dry out for a couple weeks or even a couple months. But I didn’t want to quit entirely, so sooner or later I would start hanging with the drinking crowd again.

Anyway, to get a better handle on my drinking, during one of my dry-out phases I decided to try having exactly one drink after dinner every single night. And it actually worked out pretty well. It’s been many years now, and I still have that single drink every night after dinner. I don’t even feel the alcohol; I just drink slowly for the taste. Sometimes I have a glass of wine, sometimes a martini, sometimes some liqueur. And then afterwards I get up and go about my evening as normal. As for going out on the town with friends, I have a few drinks at the club with them; but it’s no problem because I nurse the drinks slowly like my after-dinner drink, focus on savoring the flavor rather than trying to get a buzz on, and it’s easy to stop drinking when I’ve had my fill.

Anyway, that’s my advice to you: If you don’t want to quit but don’t like your current drinking habits, then you could try retraining your drinking in a new direction. It takes a while, and there will be a lot of times when you’ll want to have a second and third drink after dinner. But try to stick to the plan.

If that doesn’t work, then maybe you really do need to think of stopping altogether. Or at least hand over the car keys to someone else when you have that first drink of the night, to avoid the most obvious of alcohol-related pitfalls. You can’t get away with drunk driving forever, and when you finally get busted the penalties are pretty harsh.

 

[ICUP]

Um, well.
I don't know. I actually wrote this drunk, and then woke up and ran to the computer, wishing that I could delete a thread. No turning back now I guess.

Ha, I've done that a lot of times. If you do things while drinking that you later regret, that is a sign that you are not handling your drinking well and that you are out-of-control. I know that seems obvious but my mind will play tricks with me, and minimize the problem.

I'm curious about how the thinking changes. I have been suspecting myself to have possible alcoholism because of a recent and sudden change in my relationship with alcohol. I actually don't drink every day. Probably twice a week, but I really don't like my relationship with alcohol anymore. I don't like myself when I'm drinking, and I don't seem to be able to stop. I recently called out of work with a bad hangover and lied. About a week ago. And I decided to stop drinking alone then.. "Only drink socially".... and have drank twice alone since. It seems that liquor is the problem.

It's true that I've always been able to hold my liquor. Drink and drink and drink and never appear to get drunk. As much as I really don't want to admit this, (and I'm not proud), am able to drive drunk with seeming ease. Have gotten pulled over drunk, (ran a red light,) and got out of it. The thinking wasn't the same though. It was just me going out and acting crazy. (ESFP Irish American Yankee.)

Lately I have been avoiding social drinking for fear of getting too drunk. I can physically not drink for a while, but it can't go on forever and then I just drink and don't stop. One of my cousins used to be drunk all the time and then jusstopped one day. He just won't drink anymore. He's not in AA, but just stopped. I relate to that. I think once your relationship with alcohol changes, it seems that it will stay that way...

My father is an alcoholic, but I've never met him. My mother's side, (known), is full of them. One of my best friends is one. Seems like a normal lifestyle to me, actually, just because of being surrounded.


So, that's my question I guess.... What's the thinking? (Or, anything else people are able to share....)

I would guess you have a problem.
You resemble me in the way you are treating alcohol use.
Drinking alone, fear of getting too drunk and not being able to stop drinking (out of control), doing things you later regret, getting hangovers so bad you call into work sick, binging, etc.
Been there and done them all so many times......
I overcame it by quitting liquor altogether. I still drink beer but I limit usage. (One a day, sometimes two, but that is all). I can handle that. If I drink liquor one night, I have massive cravings for a week. It's not worth it. Sometimes I relapse and go on mini-binges where I drink for a week to a month. I don't really drink THAT much..... heh, I tell myself that, but I can down six to nine drinks in a night, and that's abuse. I'll drink that one or two nights a week, and then drink two or three the rest, when I'm binging. So it could be worse..... However, I am binging less now than ever, and it's not affecting my life so much anymore. No horrible consequences (boyfriend angry, horrible fights, don't remember what I did, etc. - mostly gone). My goal is to never drink liquor again. haha I might be able to do it next year. It has taken me several years of effort to overcome the worst of it.

Anyway, to get a better handle on my drinking, during one of my dry-out phases I decided to try having exactly one drink after dinner every single night. And it actually worked out pretty well. It’s been many years now, and I still have that single drink every night after dinner.

Same thing I do, except I limit to beer and wine. It has worked for me too.

Anyway, that’s my advice to you: If you don’t want to quit but don’t like your current drinking habits, then you could try retraining your drinking in a new direction. It takes a while, and there will be a lot of times when you’ll want to have a second and third drink after dinner. But try to stick to the plan.

Seems to work for me too. It's definitely about drink management and showing restraint.

If that doesn’t work, then maybe you really do need to think of stopping altogether. Or at least hand over the car keys to someone else when you have that first drink of the night, to avoid the most obvious of alcohol-related pitfalls. You can’t get away with drunk driving forever, and when you finally get busted the penalties are pretty harsh.

Agreed. I would suggest drinking at home, calling cabs, or yes, handing over the keys early-on to avoid driving. Drinking and driving should be no-tolerance. No one else should have to pay for your mistakes, given that you are eventually involved in an alcohol-related accident. And you can end up with a felony charge at worst, lose your license at best (depending on the state you live in),.... it's just not worth the risk, to yourself or others. My father thought he could drive too, but it got away from him. He ended up with three DWI's, lost his license, and wrecked his car. This was in the 70's/80's when penalties weren't nearly as harsh.

 

[miss fortune]

I'm not really sure that I feel like posting this really...

In college I could drink a fifth a night without any real repercussions other than the fact that it could get pretty damned expensive! For a few years I lived in my fraternity's house and always had drinking buddies around as well, so I was kind of a really heavy social drinker... we would get together and drink large quantities of alcohol almost every night. When I moved out on my own I kept up the drinking, only on my own most week nights- I had a well enough stocked liquor cabinet (I worked in a liquor store!) that people ALWAYS wanted to come to my house for dinner just because they knew that they would get whatever dessert cocktails they wanted and it would more than likely be top shelf ingredients. I don't think that I went many evenings without having at least 4 or 5 drinks.

I moved to another city after graduating and didn't know anyone here, so I took up hanging out with other drinkers because we all shared a hobby in common! I could easily be found stopping by the bar on the way home from work... I frequently had dinner there while drinking even because the bar was the first and last stop of my night. When not at work or the bar I still had a beautifully stocked liquor cabinet. I don't think I ever went to a social event during that time that did not include drinks and I don't think that I was ever seen without a drink in my hand when out.

I could handle my liquor well and wasn't a sloppy drunk, so somehow I didn't think that it was really a problem

after drinking threw my bipolar disorder off the deep end and I also got a DUI I decided that I should probably stop with such behavior. Now, if I drink anything (which is very rare) it is beer, which I never had the same sort of relationship with as I did with other types of liquor. I'm too crazy to have much of a life expectancy if I keep up the drinking

Hope that helps some... I'm half considering deleting this anyways

 

[prplchknz]

I drink when i'm suicidal, don't know if that's a problem or not.

 

[King sns]

...:

Oh, yes. It did help- thank you for sharing. ... It's always good to know when you're not alone, too. Seems awfully common now in this society. I actually don't drink a lot physically, (like, say, every night) compared to let's say...the average American college kid. I simply don't feel that I have much control over the intense cravings to drink, even if that craving only comes once or twice a week. It's like I need to drink alcohol as if I needed to have a glass of water!!! I have had friends and cousins come to me and say, "yes, I am an alcoholic." I always find that to be a brave thing, even if they aren't ready to stop drinking. It's embarrassing.

 

[miss fortune]

to think that you can let an inanimate substance have such control over you is kind of a totally embarassing thing... even now I'll occasionally feel that I NEED a drink in order to function... I drink a cup of coffee or tea instead because that kind of freaks me out... I quit drinking 2 years ago and the thought that it STILL has that power over me is not a comforting thought

 

[King sns]

Ha, I've done that a lot of times. If you do things while drinking that you later regret, that is a sign that you are not handling your drinking well and that you are out-of-control. I know that seems obvious but my mind will play tricks with me, and minimize the problem.



I would guess you have a problem.
You resemble me in the way you are treating alcohol use.
Drinking alone, fear of getting too drunk and not being able to stop drinking (out of control), doing things you later regret, getting hangovers so bad you call into work sick, binging, etc.
Been there and done them all so many times......
I overcame it by quitting liquor altogether. I still drink beer but I limit usage. (One a day, sometimes two, but that is all). I can handle that. If I drink liquor one night, I have massive cravings for a week. It's not worth it. Sometimes I relapse and go on mini-binges where I drink for a week to a month. I don't really drink THAT much..... heh, I tell myself that, but I can down six to nine drinks in a night, and that's abuse. I'll drink that one or two nights a week, and then drink two or three the rest, when I'm binging. So it could be worse..... However, I am binging less now than ever, and it's not affecting my life so much anymore. No horrible consequences (boyfriend angry, horrible fights, don't remember what I did, etc. - mostly gone). My goal is to never drink liquor again. haha I might be able to do it next year. It has taken me several years of effort to overcome the worst of it.



Same thing I do, except I limit to beer and wine. It has worked for me too.



Seems to work for me too. It's definitely about drink management and showing restraint.



Agreed. I would suggest drinking at home, calling cabs, or yes, handing over the keys early-on to avoid driving. Drinking and driving should be no-tolerance. No one else should have to pay for your mistakes, given that you are eventually involved in an alcohol-related accident. And you can end up with a felony charge at worst, lose your license at best (depending on the state you live in),.... it's just not worth the risk, to yourself or others. My father thought he could drive too, but it got away from him. He ended up with three DWI's, lost his license, and wrecked his car. This was in the 70's/80's when penalties weren't nearly as harsh.

Thank you, this is a good post. Seems like it's hard to define... That line that you cross.... I know that thinking that drinking while driving is alright shows really poor judgement on my part, (anybody's part!!) It's just a no tolerance thing. I know I can drive safely with 2 beers on board, or depending on how long it took to drink them. But it's not fair to think I'm going to just stop at 2 beers. I think I'm going to do what you did. Just stop for a while, maybe rebuild the relationship in a different way, (like someone else said.) maybe it's reversible at this point... maybe I'm just walking a fine line. I would really hate to think that I can't have that moderated, healthy social relationship with alcohol ever again. I'm an exfp for cripes sake. Eat, drink, be merry is the saying. Not eat, go to AA, and be merry.

 

[King sns]

to think that you can let an inanimate substance have such control over you is kind of a totally embarassing thing... even now I'll occasionally feel that I NEED a drink in order to function... I drink a cup of coffee or tea instead because that kind of freaks me out... I quit drinking 2 years ago and the thought that it STILL has that power over me is not a comforting thought

Yes, that is scary!!! It reminds me of a South Park they had a while back making fun of alcoholism. It was a hilarious episode teasing people who "can't stop drinking" and pretty much saying, "Just stop." Obviously alcoholism is a very real thing, but it makes sense that you should just be able to quit. I find the intervention episodes with the alcoholics to be the worst ones!!!

I'm with you, though. I need a drink in hand at all times, whether it's coffee or juice or water or alcohol! The sink is always full of cups at the end of the day!

 

[miss fortune]

Yes, that is scary!!! It reminds me of a South Park they had a while back making fun of alcoholism. It was a hilarious episode teasing people who "can't stop drinking" and pretty much saying, "Just stop." Obviously alcoholism is a very real thing, but it makes sense that you should just be able to quit. I find the intervention episodes with the alcoholics to be the worst ones!!!

I'm with you, though. I need a drink in hand at all times, whether it's coffee or juice or water or alcohol! The sink is always full of cups at the end of the day!

you'd think that it would be easy to just stop drinking... after all, quitting reading a book or shopping at certain stores and things of that sort are easy! I can't decide whether quitting drinking or quitting smoking are harder though- those things can CONTROL you

I've always been the type who is always drinking SOMETHING- when I was younger I would easily drink somewhere around 25-30 glasses of water a day now my car is littered with water bottles and redbull cans!

 

[ICUP]

Thank you, this is a good post. Seems like it's hard to define... That line that you cross.... I know that thinking that drinking while driving is alright shows really poor judgement on my part, (anybody's part!!) It's just a no tolerance thing. I know I can drive safely with 2 beers on board, or depending on how long it took to drink them. But it's not fair to think I'm going to just stop at 2 beers. I think I'm going to do what you did. Just stop for a while, maybe rebuild the relationship in a different way, (like someone else said.) maybe it's reversible at this point... maybe I'm just walking a fine line. I would really hate to think that I can't have that moderated, healthy social relationship with alcohol ever again. I'm an exfp for cripes sake. Eat, drink, be merry is the saying. Not eat, go to AA, and be merry.

YW.... Good luck to you.
The general rule is: one drink per day for women and two drinks per day for men. Anything more than that is considered unhealthy, and could/will cause detrimental effects to your health.
(You can actually check this online with many sources. Generally, this is what you will find. Occasionally, there is a different rule, but it's mostly going to be this.)
I actually used this rule to decide how much I could drink and still be healthy, and it's not much.
Regardless of how common it is to drink more than that, and how much I saw others drinking a lot more than that, THIS is reality lol.....
Reality is hard to see, and it's easy to wave it away and pretend it really isn't that way, when the alcohol is talking lol.......

 

[miss fortune]

in my court mandated alcohol class they told us that the safe drinking rules for moderation were 1 drink an hour, 2 drinks a day and no more than 3 drinks on any given day... of course they followed it by telling us that if we were required to take the class we should probably quit drinking altogether

has this thread turned into a thread on SPs and thier unhealthy relationships with alcohol, or is anyone else going to chip in

 

[prplchknz]

I tried to, but i don't have to drink all the time only when suicidal and drinking fixes it, so I don't see it as a problem even though others do.