Alcoholics.

[King sns]

Do you see any pattern of when you tend to get cravings?

I've been trying to change how I eat. People around me wouldn't say I have a problem with food, but I also know that I'm not really in control of what I eat (not binging, but just I'll determine not to buy something and then find myself getting it anyway right when I've determined that I really need to make some changes). Sometimes I tend to buy treats when I'm alone because I'd prefer other people not to know and I have spent years trying to quit drinking Coke. I've weighed more than I want to for most of my adult life, and my weight has slowly crept up every year. I'm not aware of any particular triggers either, but I think there must be some emotional element to it or it wouldn't be that hard to overcome it. Part of it is that I don't think I want to say goodbye to stuff I enjoy, even if I realize that it's effects are negative. Food is also a very social thing. Your post along with something I read this week and something cascadeco said a long time ago though inspired me to actively try just putting off whatever craving I had and see if I still felt the same way two hours later. So far it's worked. I read a book saying that one family practiced saying no to something every day - they each got to decide what - and then they had the opportunity to report back to each other at supper. It really positively impacted everyone's level of productivity and discipline, finances etc. I don't know if I'd want to do that, but I have felt some sense of internal accomplishment by kind of playing that game with myself in my head.

Yeah, I think plain old restraint is a good thing. It's hard in this bountiful culture to say "no" to things that you like that make you feel good. I tend to get cravings in a moment that I need relaxation. Either I am in high stress or am very relaxed and want to intensify the feeling. Plain old relaxation isn't good enough. I want to be really really relaxed. I'm reminding myself about how I don't like to be sick in the morning, don't think I can stop at one or two at this level of craving, and about how I went to an interesting conference the other day, surgeons talking, and was too tired to care becasue of drinking the night before. I'm going to pick up my roommates guitar and try to learn a few chords instead.

 

[jimrckhnd]

I have what I believe to a predisposition to addictive behavior so I'm wary of alcohol. If nothing else I know I have a tendency to have one more than is wise when I drink - "two beers" hardly exists for me. On the other hand I can go for weeks, occasionally months without a drink.

At various times I’ve smoked a lot of tobacco and when I was 14 or 15 a lot of dope. I used to be an obsessive runner and later when I race bicycles I was REALLY obsessive about training. I don’t know if that kind of obsession is related to addiction or not but it seems to be better to err on the side of caution and assume I’m at risk of stumbling into an addiction that will at best take time and annoyance to deal with.

 

[gromit]

I have alcoholism on both sides of my family, although my parents both gave up alcohol when I was pretty young and converted to a religion that taught against drinking alcohol. So I didn't even try a taste of alcohol until my mid-20s. Though of course there were PLENTY of opportunities to try, I didn't, a little bit out of fear of becoming like some of my relatives, that I wouldn't be able to stop, and also because I honestly wanted to do what I believed was the "right" thing.

I only drink occasionally now, and make sure I always, always, am with other people. But it is fun, I love drinking when I'm really happy about life and with people I really like, but also a couple times I have found myself wanting so bad to get super drunk when something emotionally painful happened to me...

It is a little bit scary.

 

[Fidelia]

Yeah, I think plain old restraint is a good thing. It's hard in this bountiful culture to say "no" to things that you like that make you feel good. I tend to get cravings in a moment that I need relaxation. Either I am in high stress or am very relaxed and want to intensify the feeling. Plain old relaxation isn't good enough. I want to be really really relaxed. I'm reminding myself about how I don't like to be sick in the morning, don't think I can stop at one or two at this level of craving, and about how I went to an interesting conference the other day, surgeons talking, and was too tired to care becasue of drinking the night before. I'm going to pick up my roommates guitar and try to learn a few chords instead.

I've heard people say that that is a great way to replace a bad habit - everytime you are overwhelmed with wanting to do it, you pick something that is positive to do instead and by doing that you are not only giving yourself something to do instead, but also reinforcing good stuff at the same time as backing away from more negative habits.

 

[Qlip]

I work with a bunch of alcoholics, the functional types. They probably have something like 5 or 6 a day and then get drunk once on the weekends. They seem kind of of stunted to me, like they could be doing more with themselves. But, who am I to judge on what people do with themselves?

 

[ICUP]

I work with a bunch of alcoholics, the functional types. They probably have something like 5 or 6 a day and then get drunk once on the weekends. They seem kind of of stunted to me, like they could be doing more with themselves.

I know I could have. And I am now.....

The act of drinking and dealing with hangovers takes up most of a drinking alcoholic's free time. They generally don't grow much. Pretty much in cruise control during that period.

 

[King sns]

I work with a bunch of alcoholics, the functional types. They probably have something like 5 or 6 a day and then get drunk once on the weekends. They seem kind of of stunted to me, like they could be doing more with themselves. But, who am I to judge on what people do with themselves?

I'll accept the challenge.

 

[Qlip]

I know I could have. And I am now.....

The act of drinking and dealing with hangovers takes up most of a drinking alcoholic's free time. They generally don't grow much. Pretty much in cruise control during that period.

Heh, I'm stunted too for different reasons, so I actually empathize in a strange way.

What bothers me is that static quality. I don't know I just can't connect to people who don't want to think about making themselves better. I don't mean better, like not drinking.. but just the thought they could accomplish something new tomorrow and grow a little bit more.

 

[Tiltyred]

... Eat, drink, be merry is the saying. Not eat, go to AA, and be merry.

This struck me -- drink=happy, sober=dull.

 

[King sns]

This struck me -- drink=happy, sober=dull.

More like sober is happy, and drunk is happier.

 

[ICUP]

What bothers me is that static quality. I don't know I just can't connect to people who don't want to think about making themselves better.

Heh, see this as a good thing.

I don't mean better, like not drinking.. but just the thought they could accomplish something new tomorrow and grow a little bit more.

I wish I would've been more like this at the time. In general, I think people become drinking alcoholics because something isn't right in their lives. They use it to fill a gap or a void that could be filled with healthy alternatives.... I know now that I felt numb at the time, and nothing mattered to me. I wasn't myself.
I used alcohol because it made me feel more alive temporarily. I was basically always coping with a bad situation until I was 33.... lol. Some people are just set-up for hardship, and can't develop for some reason, so they cope the best way they can until they can find another way. Finding a way out takes resources, courage, and time, unfortunately, and some people have none of those.

 

[King sns]

I've found where this goes hand-in-hand with pd's as well. (In my own family, it does.) Drinking heavily is never healthy, to the mind or body, regardless of how accepted it is within families.

Oh yes. Alcohol in large doses is very poisonous, IMO, regardless of acceptance. I think of Russians though, very low life expectancy largely due to high alcohol consumption within the culture. Jocks with no inner lives? No, just plain Russian. For me, I have a large low economic status Irish Catholic family. An alcoholic parent, a lot of friends that like to drink, few people that shun alcohol, and a profession that has a higher percentage of alcoholics than others. (And no, I'm not a professional athlete.) Seems like alcohol consumption is actually counter productive for someone who would try to lead an active lifestyle, (jocks), and inner life would be something completely unrelated.

Edit: Oh, and what's a pd?

Yeah, Stephen King suffered from severe alcoholism and "jock" is the last word I'd probably use to describe him.

 

[Thalassa]

I think of Russians though, very low life expectancy largely due to high alcohol consumption within the culture. Jocks with no inner lives? No, just plain Russian.

This reminds me of the film 4...one of the the things that is repeated in the film (repetition is one of the techniques used) is that a Russian girl should be able to hold her vodka. Then you proceed to see these alcoholic country scenes from the depths of hell.

Two of the Russian men I've known, one refuses to drink at all, and the other drinks very moderately, so they all don't drink - but yes it's ingrained into the culture just like Irish culture. I think there are also other factors that go into the lower life expectancy for Russian males aside from alcoholism, but yeah vodka is pretty much pure alcohol, it's not even like drinking wine with meals like in France and Italy, or beer and ale in the UK.

However, I think the Irish tendency toward drinking definitely runs in my family, especially amongst my older relatives. There was bad alcoholism in my grandfather's generation, but fortunately my grandfather stopped drinking entirely before I was born. My great-aunt Kate was a functional alcoholic up until her late 50's, and my great-uncle Hugh was like some lifelong alcoholic sleaze bag.

Moderately drinking beer and wine has actually been shown to have health benefits. But that's different from drinking to get drunk, and also different than consuming hard liquor on a regular basis.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Hey short stuff

If you need a listening ear- I'm your gal!

PM me anytime.

*cue golden girl music*

Ps. I'm Betty White.

 

[ICUP]

Oh yes. Alcohol in large doses is very poisonous, IMO, regardless of acceptance. I think of Russians though, very low life expectancy largely due to high alcohol consumption within the culture. Jocks with no inner lives? No, just plain Russian. For me, I have a large low economic status Irish Catholic family. An alcoholic parent, a lot of friends that like to drink, few people that shun alcohol, and a profession that has a higher percentage of alcoholics than others. (And no, I'm not a professional athlete.) Seems like alcohol consumption is actually counter productive for someone who would try to lead an active lifestyle, (jocks), and inner life would be something completely unrelated.

Edit: Oh, and what's a pd?

My family on my dad's side were mostly alcoholics. Irish roots as well haha.....
pd = personality disorder.

 

[SilkRoad]

Hey shortsie, I hope things improve for you. If you are aware that you have a problem, and want to change it, that is a big step.

I very much understand problems with motivation, over-indulgence, addictive and excessive behaviours etc. The funny thing about me is that I'm skinny like anything, so I'm the last person anyone would think has over-indulgence issues. I've lived in the UK and Ireland for the last nine years and though I hardly drank before I moved there, there have been times especially in the last few years when I've been aware that I'm drinking a bit too much. Just, I look back on a week or two and think uh oh...there were several nights with drinks (it often depends what I'm doing socially), and on some of those nights I should have stopped at one or two, instead of three or four. It's a cultural thing here and I have had many acquaintances who are at the least problem drinkers, if not functioning alcoholics, and any socializing with them (which I didn't do a lot, but sometimes) meant pressure to drink and often excessively. I also over-indulge in unhealthy food too often, while sometimes not supplying myself with enough of the healthy food. (I'm skinny just because of genetics.)

I think that as Fidelia mentioned it has an emotional dimension for me. While I do have a pretty good network and good friends in this city, I live alone and I guess I am somewhat lonely. Often the potato chips and sometimes a drink or two just make me feel better and are comforting. Given that I don't put on unhealthy weight, I don't think I have to worry much about snacking but it's a good idea for me at least to keep healthier snacks around (ie. more carrots and hummus, less potato chips.) And I've realised it's better to not keep alcohol in the house very often, or just buy one or two of those tiny individual serving bottles very occasionally, because over-indulging in public is a bad sign but over-indulging in private is in some ways more of a warning. Personally, alcohol is also something I should keep an eye on because my beliefs dictate that drinking is ok but only in moderation, certainly ruling out over-indulgence or drunkenness - so I need to watch out for it also for the sake of my conscience and spiritual life. Generally I don't think alcohol is a big problem for me; if I've found myself craving a drink, which I view as a bit of a warning, I just...don't have that drink. With alcohol it's fairly easy for me to do that, with some things it's harder.

I like the suggestion about replacing a bad habit with something else enjoyable but good for you, or at least not bad for you. I think there are some more ways I could implement that.

 

[Thalassa]

I have a large low economic status Irish Catholic family.

I think the Irish tendency toward drinking definitely runs in my family

Irish roots as well haha.....

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwQbPgouUYo"]And now it's time for a musical interlude.[/YOUTUBE]

 

[King sns]

My cousin who recently stopped drinking is ESTP 6w7. I hadn't had much of a relationship with him since early teens. Then he came back, and we started talking again, and have a fairly good relationship lately. One cousin said to him, "She holds her alcohol as good as you used to!" He said- "oh, that's not a good thing." We never actually use that alcoholic word. (I actually am not sure that I am one, or he is one, it seems like a label- can people who just stop as soon as they choose to do so have the alcoholic label??) Anyway, not a mushy gushy guy at all, and he just posted this on facebook recently. (Written by him.)

Addiction becomes truly clear when it becomes a mirror image. One starts to become a mirage of what they once were. Friendships are there only to meet or feed whatever cravings you desire at the present time. Falsified promises are made to be broken daily, without remorse, to whomever is around at the time. Will power becomes obsolete and is replaced by something very similar, but never to be confused with.It's more the absolute will to obtain what your drink or what your drug of choice is...At almost any cost. Lying to others becomes easier each passing day due to the fact that lying to yourself has become just as necessary as the air you take in.

Old meaningful relationships have been forgotten or pushed out of sight strictly because of embarrassment. It's so hard to look someone in the eye who you respect, when the sight of yourself in the mirror is despicable. Trying to remember what once made you happy is fading...Substances have replaced emotions...Emotions are few and far between. Then, the only time you feel anything at all is the panic stricken fear you have about obtaining your next buzz. Then, when that is received, happiness isn't what you feel...It's more like relief....Until that's gone. Pictures are forgotten and stuffed away...almost in the fear that seeing yourself in your former state will be too hard to cope with.

They say the first step to clarity is admitting you have an issue...But I find that mainly applies to alcohol because it's legal...you can get a drink anywhere...If it's legal...it's okay, right? Acknowledging your issues with drug use is far easier for obvious reasons. They are all one in the same though. They become temporary escapes for the harshness of ones life, even knowing that road which is taken to avoid that harshness, will only direct you down a more turbulent, darker, colder path. Addiction is easier to handle when it's yourself, as opposed to someone you care for.

Take the time to help others with their issues when their strength is at it's low point. I've never reacted well to a suit that recites verbal banter from a book he received at Barnes&Noble. If you have someone who you care deeply for, that suffers from any substance..take your time and do the hard thing...Resistance is normal because the fear of failing, and the fear of losing the substance becomes one giant emotion..one not stronger than the other. Use your experience you've obtained through your own trials to make a difference in someone else's life...Or what have you truly learned from it?

I'm very proud of him for writing that. He used to be a low life guy. Always getting in trouble with the law, doing drugs and selling them and stuff. I'm not commenting publicly though.

 

[ICUP]

(I actually am not sure that I am one, or he is one, it seems like a label- can people who just stop as soon as they choose to do so have the alcoholic label??)

I personally consider someone an alcoholic if they can't control how much they are drinking when they start. The people that I know that aren't alcoholics never seem to consider drinking more than they intended to, while the ones I know who I consider alcoholics have problems with it.

I'm an alcoholic, but I don't go out of control anymore. But if I walked into a bar, with no rules placed upon the night's activities, I am sure I would get too drunk. Alcoholism to me means I am out of control in some situations, but I know how to avoid those situations. That doesn't mean I could always maintain that control, given any situation. I probably and most-likely, couldn't.

Could I quit drinking altogether and never think about it again? Probably not. I drink generally one beer a day, and I keep a twelve pack in the trunk of my car, so I can't "decide" to drink more than that. I have to make the decision to walk to the trunk of my car to get a beer.....and that seems to work. If I had a fully-stocked bar in my home, I would be drunk alot more often lol.... so I DO think the hallmark of alcoholism is being out of control of the amounts you drink. I did stop totally for 9 months.... but I relapsed. Now I just choose to control the amount.

"Alcoholism is the addiction to or dependency upon drinking excessive amounts of alcoholic beverages[1]. Since the late twentieth century it has been considered a disabling addictive disorder. It is characterized by compulsive and uncontrolled consumption of alcohol, usually to the detriment of the drinker's health, relationships, and social standing."

I also think you could test it....
Can you stop drinking for a month totally without any side-effects, or wanting to drink?
Can you go into a bar with no rules placed upon you, drink one drink, and leave, without being sorry you didn't stay?
Do you love to drink, and think it makes you "feel better"?

People who aren't alcoholics - it isn't any issue for them at all. My S.O. can take it or leave it.... he doesn't seem to think about it or care either way. He can drink one sip or three beers, and it doesn't seem to matter to him. Whereas, you on the other hand, seem to be interested in alcohol..... to enough of a degree to ask lol......

Keep in mind that many alcoholics are in denial before they come to the realization that they are alcoholics. Many times they think they can "hold their liquor" when they obviously can't lol..... and they can't put the label on themselves when it clearly exists. The mind plays tricks with an alcoholic, and that's what I call "the alcohol talking", and not you. I actually drank for about 17 years before I ever truly realized I was an alcoholic. I think some people put the label on themselves when something finally comes along in their lives that is more meaningful than drinking, and they realize that this is one thing they can't do, and drink. I pretty much whizzed through life while drinking... but when I truly challenged myself, I found out that trying to do anything more than cruise-control was not possible. My cruise-control just happened to be up-to-standard in everyone's mind, so it never occurred to them that I was out-of-control. I hid most of it, and only showed it to those who accepted it (others who were big drinkers/drug users). I smoked pot and drank almost everyday for all those years and my parents never even knew it. I even drank in the spare bedroom in their house every night for a month, and they never suspected.

 

[King sns]

I personally consider someone an alcoholic if they can't control how much they are drinking when they start. The people that I know that aren't alcoholics never seem to consider drinking more than they intended to, while the ones I know who I consider alcoholics have problems with it.

I'm an alcoholic, but I don't go out of control anymore. But if I walked into a bar, with no rules placed upon the night's activities, I am sure I would get too drunk. Alcoholism to me means I am out of control in some situations, but I know how to avoid those situations. That doesn't mean I could always maintain that control, given any situation. I probably and most-likely, couldn't.

Could I quit drinking altogether and never think about it again? Probably not. I drink generally one beer a day, and I keep a twelve pack in the trunk of my car, so I can't "decide" to drink more than that. I have to make the decision to walk to the trunk of my car to get a beer.....and that seems to work. If I had a fully-stocked bar in my home, I would be drunk alot more often lol.... so I DO think the hallmark of alcoholism is being out of control of the amounts you drink. I did stop totally for 9 months.... but I relapsed. Now I just choose to control the amount.

"Alcoholism is the addiction to or dependency upon drinking excessive amounts of alcoholic beverages[1]. Since the late twentieth century it has been considered a disabling addictive disorder. It is characterized by compulsive and uncontrolled consumption of alcohol, usually to the detriment of the drinker's health, relationships, and social standing."

I also think you could test it....
Can you stop drinking for a month totally without any side-effects, or wanting to drink?
Can you go into a bar with no rules placed upon you, drink one drink, and leave, without being sorry you didn't stay?
Do you love to drink, and think it makes you "feel better"?

People who aren't alcoholics - it isn't any issue for them at all. My S.O. can take it or leave it.... he doesn't seem to think about it or care either way. He can drink one sip or three beers, and it doesn't seem to matter to him. Whereas, you on the other hand, seem to be interested in alcohol..... to enough of a degree to ask lol......

Keep in mind that many alcoholics are in denial before they come to the realization that they are alcoholics. Many times they think they can "hold their liquor" when they obviously can't lol..... and they can't put the label on themselves when it clearly exists. The mind plays tricks with an alcoholic, and that's what I call "the alcohol talking", and not you. I actually drank for about 17 years before I ever truly realized I was an alcoholic. I think some people put the label on themselves when something finally comes along in their lives that is more meaningful than drinking, and they realize that this is one thing they can't do, and drink. I pretty much whizzed through life while drinking... but when I truly challenged myself, I found out that trying to do anything more than cruise-control was not possible. My cruise-control just happened to be up-to-standard in everyone's mind, so it never occurred to them that I was out-of-control. I hid most of it, and only showed it to those who accepted it (others who were big drinkers/drug users). I smoked pot and drank almost everyday for all those years and my parents never even knew it. I even drank in the spare bedroom in their house every night for a month, and they never suspected.

Yes, I think you truly understand where I'm coming from with this, our drinking seems very similar. Yes, I can stop for a month, I can probably stop for a few months. I can control my cravings, I can control my behavior, I can say no... (Proven so.) But, bottom line is, it shouldn't be an issue to begin with. I'm not like one of these stereotypical alcoholics- drinking every night, always drunk, can't say no. But when I start it's difficult to stop. It's difficult to think about never drinking again. Not a "take or leave it" situation. A conscious decision to make rules about it and a purposeful willful decision to not drink when I don't want to, though my body wants otherwise. It shouldn't be a big deal, like you said. I think if I need to call myself an alcoholic to stop my drinking, then I should do that. If I need to call myself a problem drinker, then okay. Or if I just need to be more aware of my drinking to help me, without wanting to have the label, I need to do that. It's about being healthy and doing what's the best.