you can't understand depression unless you've been depressed

[King sns]

I don't get it. Depressed people are bored?

No, no no!!! You DEFINITELY don't get it!

The point is that depressed people want to float around in the sky and jump on leaves to be happy. Since this is virtually impossible, they are prone to depression. They are also prone to walk in areas with a lot of quicksand, which can be a total bummer.

Geesh.

 

[LightSun]

Part I.
“Let’s say I am on the path of healing, hope, respect, truth, knowledge, wisdom, and love! I've had many a pitfall. I've had my dark days. There are days I question everything. But I have my beliefs.

I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional household. I did not want to repeat the pattern. I've learned this truth, even with best in intentionality: we are subject to behaviorisms we have absorbed during childhood. We can go against what we learned: but then there is overcompensation in another direction which is not balanced.

I must confess i have no high self-esteem, it apparently was not nurtured or i grew up in the environment that was non-supportive of a self-concept, loving, unconditional love-that's to say; love without needing to prove a person's right to attain love or self-esteem.

I believe I did not receive love as a child. I carry that burden. I do not wish it perpetrated on succeeding generations. Such is my dream and hope. I will fight for it. Equal justice is a necessity for children to realize his or her dreams to better the planet on which we live on.

If one is lucky, enough to be born in a happy family this more readily is accomplished. If one however grows up in a dysfunctional family where perhaps, and I say perhaps love, nurture, nor empathy were taught, received or modeled then the child has a lifetime of pain. This is not so readily forgiven.

Nonetheless, there is an ego nestled. It is growing. It is such my way in life. Keep trying; please the battle of life is not lost. Not until our last dying breathe. There can always loom chances on.

 

[LightSun]

Part II.
Are our present day "triggered" emotions created now or are they a recycling and rehashing of emotions which were experienced in childhood and not properly processed and therefore healed? I believe that if we were raised as children and our emotional conflicts as children were "processed" properly, then we would be almost super human compared to the norm today.

We don't give credit or credence to a child's remarkable ability to process and properly digest negative emotions IF, if it is explained to them at the moment and properly processed. We have not learned this as a society. Moreover, not enough time is even to the developing child. Therefore, we have a society as we have it today.

It is a crux of the matter. A dysfunctional family dynamic presents yet another generation of disabled people. People shall try to break chains, but we soak the mal-knowledge into us.

Wouldn't it be great that as children we were allowed to develop our gifts? Wouldn't it be great if we were tested as children to discover our natural gifts? Wouldn't it be great for parents to allow children to come into their own and not try to change or control the child's natural river bed of growth & development?

To many tines parents seek to change, control, or alter a child's natural development. This upsets "flow". This upsets balance. This upsets the natural order of things. This is why I am for parental training as well as child development courses to be implemented. Parents can "warp" their children so easily out of profound ignorance

Parents today are overwhelmed with having children. Subconsciously children will pick up on the distorted actions and behaviors of their parenting. This is why as adults we do many of the behaviors of our parents, almost against our wills. We mimicked what we saw.

 

[LightSun]

Part III.
Even if they want to be good, and rectify the mistakes of their upbringing, they still will be subconsciously affected. Thank god. There is something called resiliency. It says one out of three will survive and overcome a dysfunctional household.

I believe all have gifts. If they are allowed to become in essence and manifest in our lives, we will be happy, content, have good self-esteem and understand our place in our universe. Parents do not understand this entirely.

They project their expectations, which is unfair. We are as a seedling and if allowed coming into our own being shall grow straight as well strong to our sun such as a mighty, mighty tree.

But parents, media, society give too many messages of what we are supposed to be doing that it is hard to find our own essence. If we do find this magnificent part in ourselves we shall indeed be very happy. We must use our gift, live it, and breathe and come to the being we were meant to become.

Also forgiveness is very hard. I will say I’ve learned proper boundaries with father. I shall set him straight if he chooses to be domineering. I do communicate with dad, but it isn't pleasant for me. See, my emotions are such as anxiety and he complains, it is toxic to my being. But i do have an intelligent, cordial, polite relationship with my father.

Call it as a virus. We try to counteract and work with, around or perhaps escape into delusionary escapisms filled of illusion. The way of breaking a cycle is (=teaching the classes i have presented: cognitive discipline, emotional intelligence, as well needed very much communication.

I’ve been forced to go into deep, deep contemplation in order to battle my mood. I am not a blamer. I don't blame life or people. I take responsibility for myself and my emotional statehood. I also have deep empathy, well for all people.

 

[LightSun]

Part IV.
There are many lows. They are as if Dante's Inferno and his called levels of hell. One can conceivably sink. Then to their horror sink even further, ad infinite.

I have a saying. Heaven and hell are before our eyes. Which do we choose to see? It is not entirely correct. However it does show an orientation in life. One could also say we are trapped in the realty in which we happen to be in, whether it is a heaven or a hell.

I know some believe in hard determinism, and that we make the lives we live in. I also say we each are in our own purgatories. It does not matter where our start point is but where we are going and that is to the mountain top of self-actualization.

Forgiveness, I believe is to be some aspect in healing. For the more i understand myself, reveal of myself, am open, honest and compassionate the more forgiving i can become.”

Words as well negative energy influence in our young upbringing, may have an effect for an entire lifetime. Some people don't understand. This is not being negative in any way, it is just a learned truism I’ve seen of myself, siblings, and seeing clients with a whole host of mental illness, criminality, as well all manner of substance abuse as well alcohol problems.

It is said that we have free will, i say its balance. Half is us and all the choices we make. Another half is genetics as well interplay of our upbringing in the formative years. It’s really like a spiritual cancer. I have another theory. This is saying pain we feel today, is a manifestation of the unresolved pain that was manifest during childhood.

It is as if we suffer from some ghostly manifest pain that never healed, much like a broken bone that was never set properly. In a most ideal of circumstances, one child would have 24 hour nurturance.

All of this will limit crime, substance abuse, misery, all needless suffering and mental illness. The long range way of doing all this reactive upbringing of the children is societal hare Kari. In spite of all this; move forward, always with the Star of Destiny in your Path to lead you on your way, to what you are capable of.

Every day we wake refreshed and in a sense we are a brand new totally new person with fresh dreams, fresh vigor & fresh hope. Sleep is like the mini-death. We awaken with fresh insights on how to deal with our daily problems as well fresh visions on how to attain our dreams, which are extremely important.

Without dreams what is the point of living? We need a future, a new vista and horizon to propel ourselves onward into the mysterious future. Sometimes frightening, mysterious, and captivating all rolled up into one.

Too many times we may ignore the inner universe, searching for peace, as well happiness when these lay within us. If one are miserable inside, then all the money, & riches, all the members of the opposite sex (or whichever sex one is attracted to, fame, material possessions, food, and travel will not soothe the soul, most certainly not for long. It is a search for inner peace that is a mantra of an INF/ENF. This inner universe is so crucial.

This is why one needs to develop self-esteem and a healthy self-concept to truly know and acknowledge the beauty of the world. For an ISP/ESP, it may be different. This is why for greatest harmony to occur; both inner and outer realities need be balanced. Listen to this inner voice. I call it the universal consciousness. It is there. It can help one perceive and pursue activity where one can enter into a state of "Flow." This is to discover one's inner gift. What one was made to do and to become?

I believe that there can be prevention and intervention in the school systems. Each year every child could get a caring, compassionate, and professional psychological evaluation! This way we could get a handle on verbal, physical, and sexual abuse. Children can be almost anything, if we but give them a chance.

How can we be so short sighted about preventing abuse!? It goes on everywhere, now, and we are reactive, not proactive? I believe since we are interrelated beings that we affect each other and so need to learn how to interact more efficiently, effectively, and rationally. I do not know why the world is so messed up.

I call upon some paradigm shift of how we choose raising our children. In this way, if a child cried or had a behavioral issue, it could be addressed by some trained professional. Whatever the issue would be could be clarified and utmost of reason used. This would be more valuable than the philosophy of "Spare the rod, and spoil the child." Now all of this takes time.

Time parents don't have in this busy hectic world searching for the illusions of this world rather to focus on making a happy and well-adjusted society. Parents will lash out, for it is easier as well reactive, faster, untrained and ignorant rather than taking a proactive road which will yield greater returns in the long run.

Absolute, and much needed skills of reasoning must need be taught. There is a need for critical thinking to be taught with a minimum of distortions of thought. Hence my penchant for an educational system being given far more priority as well learning and teaching in a new paradigm

One must absolutely be able of a persuasion to think independently as well in a creative fashion. It's a problem. I possess an analogy, we have the seed within to fully evolve if not distorted and be unduly pressured in a way of thinking that is not natural for the individual.

It is such a belief I do have that parents are custodians, not tyrants and impose their reality unto a child. Now an outside the box thinking thought I possess. We are like some computer software; we are only able to have a thinking capacity of the data entered into our self. We can't easily have a capacity to think outside our box, and then we'd be out our reality. This is conjecture from my own view as well standpoint.

All of this will limit crime, substance abuse, misery, all needless suffering and mental illness. The long range way of doing all this reactive upbringing of the children is societal hare Kari. In spite of all this; move forward, always with the Star of Destiny in your Path to lead you on your way, to what you are capable of.I think it is that we are all blind or at the very least have limited perceptions of reality. Because of the above reasons we need prevention and intervention along with child parenting classes in childhood development.

We also need to communicate in two fundamental areas: cognitive science, learning to speak, think, and write without distortions in reason & logic as well as emotional Intelligence.

I try and endeavoring not to hurt people and not take out my frustrations out on other people. Yeah, we harm each other so much. It is deplorable. Hopefully one day in an enlightened society, we will realize the power of our words. We will realize we can affect each other for the good or the ill. Ignorant adults need not hurt each other and certainly not our dear children.

 

[ThatGirl]

You're cutting and pasting this aren't you?

 

[LightSun]

Part V.
The way in my mind to greater happiness is to react with reason and compassion, to the best of our abilities, in any given situation. This is how we grow, evolve, self-actualize and become better people. We are then a light and a role model. We spread happiness, joy, calm, reason, kindness, and love to those around us. And as a result we also reap what we sow.

Here is something else to ponder. In developing as a child one must learn to have an ego and develop a sense of self identity in addition to self-esteem in the world in which we live in. As an adult, on the path, or I should say a path, for there are many paths to the top of the mountain, we must learn to let go of our ego's and transcend both it as well as our fears.

We must learn to let go of defensiveness and listen with an open heart, to be receptive, warm and open. We need to learn transparency and openness in order to heal.

Call it Karma. The universe gives back. Also for every action, there is an equal reaction. I we react with negative, irrational, angry, & hateful energy, we will witness a backlash. We are all mini-gods. Will you be a small, baby god spreading goodness and so receive love?

Will you be a destroyer, a cancer to others and thus yourself, caught in your own private hell? We have the power to make or break us. Will we be mini-gods of benevolence, peace & joy? Or will we react out of ignorance & fear instead? The choice is ours. What is in your heart? Choose your destiny wisely.

We can determine our destinies based on our determination, will power, and fortitude as well an undying belief in ourselves. Nothing can stop us from marching forward into the future and meeting our destiny. The destiny of who we were destined to be and become.

Each star in the heavens is as an enlightened one. One day your star or mine may be up there. I do not know if it will happen, nonetheless it is a refreshing thought that gives me hope and inspiration” LightSun

 

[Randomnity]

Depends how you define "understand". At one level, people who have never had it can understand, because the symptoms can be described well enough to imagine what it would be like. At a different level, even people who have had depression have not had your experience with it (in the context of your particular life history and situation), so they also don't understand.

Why is it so important to be "understood" to some arbitrary degree when nobody will ever understand you completely, and many people will understand you partially to various degrees?

 

[William K]

Why is it so important to be "understood" to some arbitrary degree when nobody will ever understand you completely, and many people will understand you partially to various degrees?

I'd say it's because people tend to trivialize things they don't "understand" or believe they have a solution because their experience with it is different. I've never had a migraine before, so I assume the pain is like a headache, but I've seen my friends really suffer from it and I don't go around telling them "Don't be a weakling, it's just a headache!"

 

[prplchknz]

I'd say it's because people tend to trivialize things they don't "understand" or believe they have a solution because their experience with it is different. I've never had a migraine before, so I assume the pain is like a headache, but I've seen my friends really suffer from it and I don't go around telling them "Don't be a weakling, it's just a headache!"

exactly. it's when they go stop being depressed, like the depressed person can snap out of it.

 

[Red Herring]

Only semi-rhetorical counter question: How can the depressed person possibly know what the other person can or can not imagine? By what right do you tell me what the borders of my perception, memory and imagination are?
If I can not enter your head, neither can you enter mine. If I can't imagine what it is like to be depressed, can you imagine what it feels like not to be (pplchknz just mentioned this) and see the world with the eyes of a healthy person?

What I mean by that is that both party's vision is partially impaired. Of course you can't just cheer up or snap out of depression, that is patently ridiculous. But once you accept the fact that you do have a desease there are ways to get better. It is hard work and it takes a lot of time, but you are not some damn emo snowflake nobody could ever possibly understand because your problems are so unique. They are not, and that is a good thing, because it is the reason that there are solutions out there.

 

[Savage Idealist]

Agree with the OP's statement; depression is a subjective phenomenon that one can only truly know by actually having experienced it. It's annoying though when people who haven't experienced depression make blatently wrong assumptions concerning it; my mother seems to think that people with depression are just emo and need to toughen up out of it . Either way, the best way to deal with depression, from what I understand, is support from friends/family as well as drugs that boost chemical in the brain to make people happier.

 

[Viridian]

Somehow, this topic reminds me of the "Mary's room" hypothesis... Can one "understand" depression if they only do so in the clinical sense?

 

[Southern Kross]

Its one of those things that I think people need to understand that they simply can't understand. Its hard for people to comprehend this because many mental/psychological problems seem a lot like other things; anorexia seems like over-enthusiastic dieting; alcoholism can seem like self-indulgence; and depression seems rather like sadness. People need to accept the fact that there isn't an easy equivalent in their own lives for these things and that these reductive comparisons often miss the point entirely. Once you admit you don't get it, the real learning begins.

At the same time, empathy can cover a lot of ground; if you're willing to be patient and listen, it can be almost as worthwhile as true understanding. And a depressed person almost always must learn to accept help from others who simply can't understand what they're going through. I've found that sometimes saying that, "you don't understand what its like", can be such a cop out; a flat refusal to accept help and worthwhile advice because they don't want to actually face the issue at hand. But of course, "cheer up" is always an idiotic thing to say and doesn't count as real advice.

 

[Octarine]

You guys realise there is more than one type of depression right? Depression characterised by serotonin dysfunction associated with chronic stress and anxiety (and HPA axis hyper-activity) compared with dopaminergic deficiency, increased serotonin and hypo-activity of the HPA axis. Of course there are other neurotransmitters associated with mood disorders, including the rest of the monoamines, the cholinergics etc, so there are many more possibilities.

So having a depression diagnosis wouldn't necessarily translate into knowing how others with depression may feel.

 

[JocktheMotie]

I agree. I don't understand it. I don't understand how people can lack the will to fix it. I just know that the chemistry in their minds is preventing them from being able to help themselves and for me, it's a terrifying concept. Seems like a prison.

 

[Octarine]

I don't understand how people can lack the will to fix it.

It's not necessarily a lack of will. There are those who cannot afford treatment, or are unaware that they have a treatable condition, or their condition is unresponsive to treatment. (note, I'm clearly referring to the worldwide incidence, rather than middle class American incidence).

 

[Xenon]

...even people who have had depression have not had your experience with it (in the context of your particular life history and situation), so they also don't understand.

Why is it so important to be "understood" to some arbitrary degree when nobody will ever understand you completely, and many people will understand you partially to various degrees?

This. No one really knows what it's like to be someone else. The experience of depression is hardly unique in that sense.

And, the term "depression" covers a lot of variation. Sometimes the person feels passive, sometimes s/he gets agitated. Some feel a lot of sadness and pain and some feel more numb. Sometimes it's a clear reaction to life circumstances, sometimes it's ongoing and results from twisted thinking or a poor self-concept, and sometimes it's more physiologically rooted. Sometimes it occurs on its own and sometimes alongside another disorder. Sometimes people can still carry about their usual activities and no one even guesses anything's wrong, and sometimes people are incapacitated to the point of needing hospitalization. How would having some sort of experience with some sort of depression give you some deep understanding of everyone else's experience?

I agree with Southern Kross: the best thing you can do with someone else's pain is just accept that you won't necessarily understand it and be open to listening to them and learning about it.

 

[skylights]

agree theoretically; disagree practically. no one can ever really understand what another person is going through. we're not them, we don't have their unique conglomeration of experiences and thoughts and ways of thinking. but practically, we can get pretty close with a willingness to keep in mind that someone else's experiences may be drastically different from ours.

Why is it so important to be "understood" to some arbitrary degree when nobody will ever understand you completely, and many people will understand you partially to various degrees?

I agree with Southern Kross: the best thing you can do with someone else's pain is just accept that you won't necessarily understand it and be open to listening to them and learning about it.

 

[Kasper]

no one can ever really understand what another person is going through. we're not them, we don't have their unique conglomeration of experiences and thoughts and ways of thinking. but practically, we can get pretty close with a willingness to keep in mind that someone else's experiences may be drastically different from theirs.

I agree with the first part, but I disagree with the "we can get pretty close" bit. I really don't think we can, unless we've been there.

Many people think they can understand what experiences are like for other people but even those with open minds can't do so, what we can do is settle on empthising, listening and being non-judgemental. Everything in life that we witness someone else experience is seen through clouded eyes, we may experience something similar that gives us some insight into the other persons journey but unless we share that experience we can't live it. Example: I know first hand what discrimination based on stigma and stereotype is like, to be part of a minority that some believe would be better off dead, and while those same sentiments may be directed at other minority groups I do not know their journey. If I delude myself into thinking my experiences can give me understanding into another persons then I am by default not hearing what they say it's like. It took being in that position to realise this.

I do not believe someone can really understand depression unless they live it, and even then their understanding is limited to what they actually experienced.