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Psychology and Sociology

rav3n

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Are Psychology and Sociology, the pseudo-sciences of human generalisations? If you take natural sciences, most often, results can be consistently duplicated. This doesn't hold true with psych or sociology. In natural sciences, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation where much of psychological and sociological theory surrounds assumption of causation.

Agree or disagree?
 

entropie

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I have answered the question for myself as follows: so far causation works with newtonian physics, in quantum physics cause and effect seem to not apply anymore.

What's right now, namely if causation does exist or does not we cant say for sure, therefore what seemingly seems safe, namely causation actually aint to sure and seems to be more of a human illusion aswell :)
 

Lark

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Are Psychology and Sociology, the pseudo-sciences of human generalisations? If you take natural sciences, most often, results can be consistently duplicated. This doesn't hold true with psych or sociology. In natural sciences, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation where much of psychological and sociological theory surrounds assumption of causation.

Agree or disagree?

No, disagree.

There are the same research norms in each discipline and in the natural sciences and social sciences too. If psychology and sociology are pseudo-science then economics is even less objective.
 

entropie

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Well economics is prolly the least objective in my book. Yet since you call me having nothing more than college libertarism what do I know :)
 

rav3n

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Economics is the study of gross or net generalisations! And I say that affectionately.
 

entropie

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^I havent understood that, but I wanted to add that your question in the op is definitly an important one. I remember a time two years ago on this forum we had heated debates, recurring in different threads whether psychology or sociology deserve the label science at all. There were fierce defenders of both sides. I personally think that from an empirical standpoint there are things in psychology, sociology and natural sciences you can "prove". But those proves aint the end, its like the starting point to a greater insight about the topic that comes later. Newton made the law that an apple falls on the ground, cause and effect. Nowadays we have entagled quantums which can show in the nature an effect before the actual cause.

I think there is still much to learn for us humans and tho maybe T - guys like to define a set of criteria or rules, I think no matter what you do it will be unsharp. personally wouldnt want to miss the finidngs of psychology and sociology yet I enjoy them with caution, I dont believe everything they tell me. The same I am doing tho with the latest findings in physics. Think if you generally keep that sceptical nature you may even grant the psychologists to call themselves scientists ffs, if they stay calm afterwards and just do their work :)
 

Thalassa

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They aren't pseudo-science, they are social science. So, I disagree with you. Like Lark said, there are standards and normative structures followed, it's not like astrology.
 

entropie

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I remember from back then in the years that Te people and Ti people had different understandings on this. Ti people often have the touchy attitude, means I can touch the stone the stone exists. If its tho a standard, nominative or gross or net stone, I personally never understood.
 

Lark

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Economics is extrapolations, generalisation and theorising based on models developed from observations, at least that is what has been suggested but a lot of the books on economics which I have read, I'm not just talking about pop-economics either like freakonomics or anything like that, seem to be about confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance and supporting existing theories and models rather than testing or incorporating some sort of falsefiability in classic Popper/Einsteinian scientific terms.
 

entropie

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Ya but economics is no natural law, it's an inventiuon of humans and could be replaced by lets say totalitarism. I always understood the question if psychology is a science in the way that it would still exist on Earth even if humans hadnt labeled it as such. Like the apple would fall on the ground, even if humans wouldnt exist
 

Lark

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Social sciences like psychology and sociology may not be able to draw affirmative concluisons about causation, at least no more than the natural sciences, however accumulated correlation can permit informed decision making or speculations which can be very useful, at the very least it makes for interesting reading. Not that novels or literary sources dont have as much value sometimes.

If you seriously question the objectivity and use of disciplines like sociology and psychology you then have to seriously question the sorts of pop sociology or folk psychology on which most people base their judgements and from which unconsciously social norms rise and fall. It makes the culture wars appear like a lot more than simply a contrivance of stuffy conservatives or alarmist politicians.

I find it very interesting what is and isnt considered credible in the disciplines of sociology and psychology, what those accreditation and doubts say themselves. What is rubbished in straight macro or micro sociology will be considered valid once marketing or management professionals are able to use it to make money. I remember a great politics lecturer at one of the universities I attendend contrasting the content in economic texts about incentives and profit with what the top five management text books suggested about incentives, the whole comfy chair vs. bonuses discussion.
 

Lark

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Ya but economics is no natural law, it's an inventiuon of humans and could be replaced by lets say totalitarism. I always understood the question if psychology is a science in the way that it would still exist on Earth even if humans hadnt labeled it as such. Like the apple would fall on the ground, even if humans wouldnt exist

Yeah your knowledge is about that of a college libertarian.
 

entropie

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Yeah your knowledge is about that of a college libertarian.

Ok, then you go on here and I go back to the things I am good at. Wouldnt understand you anyways I guess :)
 

entropie

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Wonderful italian red wine has a little sparkling effect on the tongue xD
 

Craft

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As with any other study, if its objectivity is questionable, then use its level of applicability in determining whether its a Science or not. If Sociology and Psychology have inductively proven themselves practical(which they have), then they are "Science."

A totalitarian system has economics in the formed of a command-economy.
 

entropie

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Could be seen as a fight of free thinkers and the royal science club. The royal science club says, you firstly have to prove that you are a Science in for example having something like a natural law. The free thinkers say, if you can use it, you dont have to prove it.

I dunno, I think both opinions are stupid. The royal one isnt in the idea of what the word science means, namely to create knowledge thru research but the free thinkers one invites every idiot theory to be called science.

I dunno, lemme drink about it :)
 

Magic Poriferan

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It may be a misnomer to call sociology and psychology sciences, and the differences is great enough that we all know the distinction between the meaning of "social science" and "natural science". Never the less, the fields do utilize scientific methods to an extent that they cannot be considered mere philosophy. While it may not have the precision of something like chemistry, these fields can also yield some surprisingly consistent results.

I will also note that when it comes to psychology, some aspects such as neurobiology are involved and those are quite scientific.
 
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