• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Narcissism, a GOOD trait

T

ThatGirl

Guest
I doubt that, true narcissists hide incredible insecurity and can usually only survive well for short periods of time in the charade.
 

guesswho

Active member
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
1,977
MBTI Type
ENTP
Anyone who has ever been associated with a true narcissist would disagree strongly with the OP.

winner.gif
 

Giggly

No moss growing on me
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
9,661
MBTI Type
iSFj
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
They pair up with a non-narcissist because they wouldn't be able to blatantly abuse another narcissist in the same satisfying manner.


For real.


Dang was it an eye-opener when I realized that. That makes me feel a sense of injustice.

Marm is correct. As for why people aren't narcissists pair up with narcissists, there are a lot of complicated reasons that can happen. It often takes people too long to realize how serious the problems are with the person they've partnered with. Furthermore, some people are easily coerced by that kind of personality, mis-attribute positive implications to their negative personality traits, or tend to become dependent on strong personalities. I also think some people have a fantasy that they can become the one person who is loved by a narcissist (similar thing happens with sociopaths).

Guilty. :blush:

I has learnz though

A narcissist gains from a relationship with a non-narcissist, while the non-narcissist loses. In a relationship with two narcissists, both people are losers. The winner is the person not interacting with a narcissist.

Yeah.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm sorry, but I think you're confusing self-esteem with an unrealistic or grandiose views of one's self. Some of the questions are quite pointedly, glaringly differentiating between self-esteem and absurd gradiosity, one most notably is "I'm a born leader." Realistically, the qualities of a good leader must be learned over time and contemplated carefully both intellectually and ethically speaking. Someone who thinks themselves "a born leader" is just bossy...that doesn't equal good or effective leader.

I doubt most entepreneurs are pathological narcissists, but certainly some are, I would agree...because they believe the only way they can validate themselves (for their sad, inner state) is by building a world of material things around them to externally validate, which is false validation, which is a symptom of narcissism.

the entrepreneurs you've described are specifically unhealthy type 3 and type 6 entrepreneurs. with the exception of enjoying shocking people and turning heads, the majority of entrepreneurs care little for external validation (starting a successful business requires being incredibly productive with virtually 0 instant gratification or validation until the business is running and successful). they care about power, money and above all else, autonomy and the ability to do their thing without interruption. also, thinking of one's self as a natural leader does not make him grandiose or bossy. some people legitimately do have a natural propentency towards leadership (self not included) but it is true that like any other talent, it must be grown. narcissists are generally overly demonstrative and like to flaunt, but as the artical suggested, they are very secure with themselves and their self image (especially those with narcissistic personality as opposed to narcissistic personality disorder)
PS: I am not a successful entrepreneur as of yet, so I can't promise my diagnosis to be 100% accurate, but I am learning to become one and know several successful entrepreneurs
 

Giggly

No moss growing on me
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
9,661
MBTI Type
iSFj
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I doubt that, true narcissists hide incredible insecurity and can usually only survive well for short periods of time in the charade.

Perhaps it's rare, but I've seen a few last a very long time.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I doubt that, true narcissists hide incredible insecurity and can usually only survive well for short periods of time in the charade.

Actually, the trick is that executives are in a unique position to juggle people and hold them at arms length, making it easier to maintain that charade.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I also noticed that the OP said that people who aren't at least a little narcisisstic or who are altruistic don't get much in life.

Andrew Carnegie was altruistic, and he is one the legendary wealthy Americans - you know, like Rockefeller.

I noticed that you are also missing the part in the description of NPD where is says healthy people with high self-esteem are often humble.

Arrogance can be a form of stupidity re: overestimating your own abilities can get you into trouble, or cause you to act impulsively without thinking.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I also noticed that the OP said that people who aren't at least a little narcisisstic or who are altruistic don't get much in life.

Andrew Carnegie was altruistic, and he is one the legendary wealthy Americans - you know, like Rockefeller.

I noticed that you are also missing the part in the description of NPD where is says healthy people with high self-esteem are often humble.

Arrogance can be a form of stupidity re: overestimating your own abilities can get you into trouble, or cause you to act impulsively without thinking.

Andrew Carnegie was not altruistic. altruism is putting others first and yourself second. doing lots of things to help others does not make one altruistic. Andrew Carnegie focused on getting himself money and success first before contributing millions of dollars to help others. he also did so without detriment to himself. objectivists can be just as generous as altruist, they just do so after they've taken care of their own needs
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
well all those traits of narcissistic personality disorder basically comes from being inability to use empathy.

The first part is true, but I highly doubt the second part; Actually, I would spell it this way: Narcissism is usually good for your personal career, but also usually bad for literally everyone around you because you do everything you can at their expense.

Also, "mild to moderate narcissism" isn't really a good term; The point about narcissism is OVERconfidence in your abilities, contempt of others, love of self to an unhealthy degree etc. Narcissists live in a world of fantasy in which they're awesome and everyone other just sucks. On the other side, simple confidence in your abilities and love yourself but also others etc. is called "healthy self-esteem". And these people have exactly the same good traits without the bad traits narcissists have.

:yes:

narcissus fell in love with himself, but he could never get love back. loving yourself is a good thing, but falling in love with yourself is not. thus self-esteem and narcissism can be distinguished.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
:yes:

narcissus fell in love with himself, but he could never get love back. loving yourself is a good thing, but falling in love with yourself is not. thus self-esteem and narcissism can be distinguished.

are you saying that legitimately falling in love with yourself is possible? Interesting, I wouldn't have thought so.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
are you saying that legitimately falling in love with yourself is possible? Interesting, I wouldn't have thought so.

well, that's the backstory to the term narcissism. narcissus was a young man who fell in love with his reflection, and eventually died because he wouldn't stop staring at himself in the water. the stories say that a goddess (nemesis, "retribution") noticed that he was proud and unappreciative to the people around him, and drove him to the fatal pool.

and i think we can fall in love with that - a reflection. an idea of self. not our deepest characteristics, not the flawed imperfect truth, but who we want to see ourselves as. it's more about the concept than an actual being. narcissus essentially sacrificed his own self-development because he couldn't do anything but marvel at himself all day long, but it wasn't even his real self. it was just an image. not recognizing that was his fatal flaw - he was too in love with the image to see the truth. he never actually experienced his whole self, even though that was what he pined away for.

that's why narcissism is a problem, because it denies the truth that we're all flawed, ugly, imperfect, and ungrateful. loving your self is to accept these flaws and to grow. narcissism is to wither away at the pool of your own reflection. it does no one any favors - not yourself, nor those who have sacrificed for you because they love you.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
Andrew Carnegie was not altruistic. altruism is putting others first and yourself second. doing lots of things to help others does not make one altruistic. Andrew Carnegie focused on getting himself money and success first before contributing millions of dollars to help others. he also did so without detriment to himself. objectivists can be just as generous as altruist, they just do so after they've taken care of their own needs

Such irritating self indulgent posts. I must remember that a narcissist's vision is based on movement. :Standsperfectlystilleatingpudding:
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Andrew Carnegie was not altruistic. altruism is putting others first and yourself second. doing lots of things to help others does not make one altruistic. Andrew Carnegie focused on getting himself money and success first before contributing millions of dollars to help others. he also did so without detriment to himself. objectivists can be just as generous as altruist, they just do so after they've taken care of their own needs

He limited his own income right off the bat to never take over 50 grand per year for himself, and said, "The amassing of wealth is one of the worse species of idolatry."

Not only that, but libertarinism is as foolish as communism, because both blatantly ignore human nature. Not every capitalist has the ethics of Andrew Carnegie, or even close to it. That's why libertarianism won't work, but it's a nice fairy tale to believe that every one is intelligent enough and moral enough to make it work.

Objectivists are idiotic and should never be mentioned in a rational discussion. Even the most staunch libertarians understand that Ayn Rand was kind of a whack job.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
He limited his own income right off the bat to never take over 50 grand per year for himself, and said, "The amassing of wealth is one of the worse species of idolatry."

Not only that, but libertarinism is as foolish as communism, because both blatantly ignore human nature. Not every capitalist has the ethics of Andrew Carnegie, or even close to it. That's why libertarianism won't work, but it's a nice fairy tale to believe that every one is intelligent enough and moral enough to make it work.

Objectivists are idiotic and should never be mentioned in a rational discussion. Even the most staunch libertarians understand that Ayn Rand was kind of a whack job.

umm... how many libertarians do you know? I know several and they all love Ayn Rand (and for good reason). now, I am not an extreme objectivist, but I am objectivistic about most things
you've made a good point about andrew carnegie though
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
umm... how many libertarians do you know? I know several and they all love Ayn Rand (and for good reason). now, I am not an extreme objectivist, but I am objectivistic about most things
you've made a good point about andrew carnegie though

Oh, you must be in college. Or high school. I thought I was a communist in high school. I think young people can get carried away with extremist ideologies before they properly learn and think things through.

Well, eventually, hopefully, you'll come to understand that objectivism isn't...well, it's not real.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Such irritating self indulgent posts. I must remember that a narcissist's vision is based on movement. :Standsperfectlystilleatingpudding:

could you elaborate? I have trouble seeing how a post that mentions absolutely nothing about myself is self indulgent.
PS: I won't denying being moderately self indulgent, but I do try not to be more than slightly so outwardly. you see, it's really a lot like masturbating. it's all well and good, but no one wants to see it in public.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
Oh, you must be in college. Or high school. I thought I was a communist in high school. I think young people can get carried away with extremist ideologies before they properly learn and think things through.

Well, eventually, hopefully, you'll come to understand that objectivism isn't...well, it's not real.

Spot on Marmie. Spot on.

The bold part made me chortle.
 
Top