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Narcissism, a GOOD trait

entropie

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The first part is true, but I highly doubt the second part; Actually, I would spell it this way: Narcissism is usually good for your personal career, but also usually bad for literally everyone around you because you do everything you can at their expense.

Also, "mild to moderate narcissism" isn't really a good term; The point about narcissism is OVERconfidence in your abilities, contempt of others, love of self to an unhealthy degree etc. Narcissists live in a world of fantasy in which they're awesome and everyone other just sucks. On the other side, simple confidence in your abilities and love yourself but also others etc. is called "healthy self-esteem". And these people have exactly the same good traits without the bad traits narcissists have.

It's funny the abbreviation for narcisstic personality disorder is NPD. You would know which political party that is :D.

I agree with what Mephistopheles said, the ability to take charge or better to take on responsibility involves other character traits than a narcisstic person would have.
 

INTP

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So you are saying that the website which quoted the DSM, quoted it wrong? Or the DSM is wrong/unreliable? Is it because this contradicts the MBTI link with NPD, that NPDs are Judgers, and Judgers aren't borderline???

If the MBTI would have been so useful in understanding mental issues, don't you think it would be recognized worldwide...as a cool tool for insight?

The correlations between these things are too complicated to be understood without the MBTI....Comorbidity isn't fully understood...there are theories and theories...

In order for comorbidity to be fully understood, the relationships between the neurotransmitters and all of the brain's biology must be understood. So yes, at that point , the studies will be entirely reliable.

calm down with the Ne dude :D. i just want to look at that study so that i can see p-values of those claims and other reliability stuff etc. or see if its even any real study or just something that some high schooler calculated from some random statistics for his homework
 

Magic Poriferan

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A narcissist benefits from their narcissism only to the degree that they can keep people at arm's length. People tend to have an exceptionally positive first impression of narcissists, but intimacy generally brings a very low opinion of narcissists. So it's only their advantage where they can avoid that.

A narcissist's behavior is no good for anyone else. Narcissists manipulate others for gain at their expense, plain and simple. The narcissist's gain is typically everyone else's loss. And when two narcissists are together, it's like a slugging match. They are completely in conflict with each other, and lack any particular manipulative advantage over each other, so it's just a protracted (can costly) battle of will.
 

guesswho

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calm down with the Ne dude :D. i just want to look at that study so that i can see p-values of those claims and other reliability stuff etc. or see if its even any real study or just something that some high schooler calculated from some random statistics for his homework

http://www.amazon.com/Diagnostic-Statistical-Disorders-DSM-IV-TR-Revision/dp/0890420254

http://www.articlesfactory.com/arti...lity-disorder-prevalence-and-comorbidity.html

Comorbidity and Differential Diagnoses

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is often diagnosed with other mental health disorders ("co-morbidity"), such as mood disorders, eating disorders, and substance-related disorders. Patients with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are frequently abusive and prone to impulsive and reckless behaviours ("dual diagnosis").

The comorbidity of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) with other personality disorders, such as the Histrionic, Borderline, Paranoid, and Antisocial Personality Disorders, is high.

http://www1.appstate.edu/~hillrw/Narcissism/comorbidity.html


It is rare that someone diagnosed with NPD will not also be diagnosed with another Axis II disorder; in fact, Ronningstam points out that, among the Axis II Cluster B (dramatic) disorders, �Narcissistic Personality Disorder has one of the highest rates of diagnostic overlap.�18 It has also been suggested that NPD is over-diagnosed, that the constellation of symptoms clinicians identify as constituting NPD do not conform to the DSM requirements, and that clinicians frequently do not identify NPD in patients whose primary clinical diagnosis is Narcissistic Personality Disorder.19

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20551324

Prevalence of lifetime NPD was 6.2%, with rates greater for men (7.7%) than for women (4.8%). NPD was significantly more prevalent among black men and women and Hispanic women, younger adults, and separated/divorced/widowed and never married adults. NPD was associated with mental disability among men but not women. High co-occurrence rates of substance use, mood, and anxiety disorders and other personality disorders were observed. With additional comorbidity controlled for, associations with bipolar I disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, and schizotypal and borderline personality disorders remained significant, but weakened, among men and women.
The following chart illustrates the co-occurrence of NPD with other Axis II disorders according to the criteria sets in the DSM-III and DSM-III-R.

Comorbidity of
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
With Other Axis II Disorders20


Axis II
Disorder

Percentage
of Co-Occurrence
Histrionic Personality Disorder
53%
Borderline Personality Disorder
47%
Paranoid Personality Disorder
36%
Avoidant Personality Disorder
36%
Passive-Aggressive Personality
Disorder
28%
Antisocial Personality Disorder
16%

The following chart illustrates the comorbidity of NPD with Anxiety and Depressive disorders:


Comorbidity of
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
With Depressive and Anxiety Disorders21


Comorbid With Comorbidity Rate
Depressive Disorders
4%
Anxiety Disorders
3%

The comorbidity of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) with other personality disorders, such as the Histrionic, Borderline, Paranoid, and Antisocial Personality Disorders, is high.


http://www.articledashboard.com/Art...y-Disorder---Prevalence-and-Comorbidity/63876

The comorbidity of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) with other personality disorders, such as the Histrionic, Borderline, Paranoid, and Antisocial Personality Disorders, is high.



It's the same thing copied all over the internet.......
 

Jonny

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Did you notice that all three of us (you, me, prpl) all scored medium on Vanity and Superiority and low on everything else?

That's interesting.

Yes, I also noticed that. Someone would probably have to be in a sever state of self loathing and depression to not answer in a "narcissistic" fashion on some of those questions though.
 

lunalum

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I wont comment on that, but here is a test. There once was a thread where members posted their results, if i remember correctly.

Your score is 27
Maximum is 40. Average for Americans is 15.
Your score for Authority is MEDIUM
Your score for Self-sufficiency is LOW
Your score for Superiority is HIGH
Your score for Exhibitionism is HIGH
Your score for Exploitativeness is LOW
Your score for Vanity is HIGH
Your score for Entitlement is HIGH

Butbutbut.... I'm only a tiny bit of a narcissist. I think I'm awesome but I think everyone else is awesome too.

Isn't self-absorption with an unsteady sort of confidence and attention-seeking a different thing from true narcissism if you still care about other people and think of them as equals?
 

King sns

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7 myths about Narcissism, Lindsay Lyon
A hallmark of narcissism is overconfidence. But there's one thing that narcissists can legitimately be confident about: Not all that we assume about narcissism is true. Research psychologist Jean Twenge laid out these seven myths about narcissism, which she and her coauthor identify in their new book, The Narcissism Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement. Edited excerpts from her conversation with U.S. News:


1. Narcissism is really high self-esteem. No, it's not. Someone can have really high self-esteem and not be narcissistic. The key difference is that people high in self-esteem focus on relationships and narcissists are missing that piece about caring about relationships. They want to know what other people can do for them, but in terms of having close emotional relationships, they don't care.

2. Deep down, narcissists are insecure and have low self-esteem. People assume that narcissists must be concealing some deep insecurity or they actually hate themselves. But the data don't back it up. Even if you measure self-esteem in a subtle, unconscious way, deep down inside, narcissists think they're awesome. It's important to understand that this is a myth because when people act like jerks and they behave narcissistically, often others will say that the solution is that they really need to boost their self-esteem. Well, that's not going to help. That's exactly their problem.

3. Maybe narcissists have a reason for being narcissistic. This comes up a lot. People think, "Well, maybe narcissists have a reason for being this way." That's not true. When you look at objective measures of intelligence and beauty, narcissists are just like everybody else. They just think they're great. They're legends in their own minds. There are lots of studies on this. My favorite one came out a couple months ago. It was titled "Narcissistic Men and Women Think They Are So Hot, but They Are Not." If you ask narcissists how attractive they think they are or how smart they think they are, they rate themselves high. But when you look at an actual IQ test, or someone else rating their photograph, they're average.

4. A little narcissism is healthy. You have to ask, "Healthy for whom?" Narcissism is basically never healthy for other people. It tends to work out OK for the narcissist in the short term, but in the long term, they end up messing up their relationships at work and at home, and they end up depressed later in life.

5. Narcissism is just physical vanity. Physical vanity is a correlate of narcissism, but there are plenty of other [aspects of narcissism], including materialism, entitlement, antisocial behavior, and problems in relationships.

6. You have to be narcissistic to be successful. Narcissism isn't linked to success. Self-esteem isn't even linked to success. So why do people make this association? It's partly because we think that self-admiration is always good, and it's partly because highly successful narcissists are highly visible, like Donald Trump and Paris Hilton. But there are plenty of people who are successful in those fields who we haven't heard of because they don't have their own TV show with "Money, Money, Money" playing in the theme song. They're just as successful; they're just not on TV.

7. You have to love yourself to love someone else. The reality is that if you love yourself too much, you won't have any left over for anyone else. Again, keep in mind that if you hate yourself and you're really depressed, you're probably not going to be a great relationship partner either. But people with low self-esteem are perfectly good relationship partners most of the time. They can be insecure, but they do care about their partners, unlike people who are narcissistic.

Ofcourse this is one person, I'm sure there are lots of people that will argue it. Doing a quick search to see if good evidence suggests low self-esteem is at play, I came up empty handed. :shrug:

Yea, I'm just wondering how they studied whether or not low self confidence was at play. If you ask the narcissist a series of questions relating to their self esteem, my guess is that they feel that they have high self esteem and there's nothing wrong, therefore answering those questions falsely.

(Edit: Sorry, reread and changed my post!)
 

INTP

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well i just looked up more of this thing and turns out that they changed some criteria for certain disorders for this new version(your link), because of too high overlapping between some dp diagnosis(due to bad questions in the previous version), including those correlated to npd. the table you showed is from the last version, so if it was on that book, it was only there to criticize the previous version and showing where it went wrong. in short, that correlation in your pic isnt valid. Boo-yah :biggrin:
 

King sns

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Society is a product of other trait sets, dont blame that crap on us.

However, values and trends in society - especially America - are looking more and more ENTJ. There has been some debate on whether the United States is more ESTJ or ENTJ, I do believe the focus on having the biggest house and nicest car and living beyond one's means and being uber-powerful and focused on being socially dominant and dying with the most toys...is ENTJ rather than ESTJ.

Then again, you're from Ireland, so why would you care, ha.

Man. Can't even make a joke on this forum anymore!
 
A

Anew Leaf

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shortnsweet: I <3 you (even if you are an s... hehe :D)

I am taking the test now and I chuckled at:
A. The thought of ruling the world frightens the hell out of me.

B. If I ruled the world it would be a better place.

Totally B! Everyone would get a pony!!!

But something tells me that isn't what this question is asking... frowny face.

And my hilarious results:

Your score is
8
Maximum is 40. Average for Americans is 15. Highest tested celebrity is Robin Quivers, with 34.


Your score for Authority is LOW
Your score for Self-sufficiency is MEDIUM
Your score for Superiority is MEDIUM
Your score for Exhibitionism is LOW
Your score for Exploitativeness is MEDIUM
Your score for Vanity is LOW
Your score for Entitlement is LOW

Most of the leader/follower questions had answers that didn't really apply to me. I prefer doing my own thing as much as possible. I am content to let someone else to lead so long as they are competent. If they aren't competent then I do not mind leading the group onward to victory and a mug of pudding.
 

Thalassa

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Yes, I also noticed that. Someone would probably have to be in a sever state of self loathing and depression to not answer in a "narcissistic" fashion on some of those questions though.

I agree, I thinking getting a low to moderate score might indicate healthy self-esteem and initiative, where as getting a total zero might equal doormat syndrome.
 
0

011235813

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Took the test and got a 5 the first time, didn't save the results though. Took it again, and here they are.


Your score is
7
Your score for Authority is LOW
Your score for Self-sufficiency is MEDIUM
Your score for Superiority is MEDIUM
Your score for Exhibitionism is LOW
Your score for Exploitativeness is LOW
Your score for Vanity is MEDIUM
Your score for Entitlement is LOW
 

Elfboy

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I wont comment on that, but here is a test. There once was a thread where members posted their results, if i remember correctly.

I scored a 32 out of 40. average for americans is 15.
Your score for Authority is HIGH
Your score for Self-sufficiency is HIGH
Your score for Superiority is HIGH
Your score for Exhibitionism is HIGH
Your score for Exploitativeness is MEDIUM
Your score for Vanity is HIGH
Your score for Entitlement is HIGH

damn, maybe I'm a little more of a narcissist than I thought. in all honesty though, I didn't like a lot of the questions. I think my entitlement and exploitativeness are actualy extremely low (I demand the best, but I don't want people to just give it to me. I take what I want), and my exhibitionism is probably a little lower. I also didn't how the questions pit you against everyone else. I care about other people's best interests, but it's a choice between other people's best interest or my own, I'm taking care of my own no questions asked. being an objectivist does not make one a narcissist. similarly, I don't much want authority over people, but if they try to gain authority over me, I'm going to dominate their ass lol. also, I don't really expect anything of other people if they stay out of my way. all in all, I think my scores should look more like this:

Authority MEDIUM-HIGH
Self-sufficiency is HIGH
Superiority is HIGH
Exhibitionism is MEDIUM-LOW
Exploitativeness is LOW
Vanity is HIGH
Entitlement is LOW
 

guesswho

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well i just looked up more of this thing and turns out that they changed some criteria for certain disorders for this new version(your link), because of too high overlapping between some dp diagnosis(due to bad questions in the previous version), including those correlated to npd. the table you showed is from the last version, so if it was on that book, it was only there to criticize the previous version and showing where it went wrong. in short, that correlation in your pic isnt valid. Boo-yah :biggrin:

NPD was associated with mental disability among men but not women. High co-occurrence rates of substance use, mood, and anxiety disorders and other personality disorders were observed. With additional comorbidity controlled for, associations with bipolar I disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and schizotypal and borderline personality disorders remained significant, but weakened, among men and women.

=======================================================================================================
Prevalence, correlates, disability, and comorbidity of DSM-IV narcissistic personality disorder: results from the wave 2 national epidemiologic survey on alcohol and related conditions.

Stinson FS, Dawson DA, Goldstein RB, Chou SP, Huang B, Smith SM, Ruan WJ, Pulay AJ, Saha TD, Pickering RP, Grant BF.

Laboratory of Epidemiology and Biometry, Division of Intramural Clinical and Biological Research, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892-9304, USA.
Abstract

OBJECTIVES: To present nationally representative findings on prevalence, sociodemographic correlates, disability, and comorbidity of narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) among men and women.

METHOD: Face-to-face interviews with 34,653 adults participating in the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions conducted between 2004 and 2005 in the United States.

RESULTS: Prevalence of lifetime NPD was 6.2%, with rates greater for men (7.7%) than for women (4.8%). NPD was significantly more prevalent among black men and women and Hispanic women, younger adults, and separated/divorced/widowed and never married adults. NPD was associated with mental disability among men but not women. High co-occurrence rates of substance use, mood, and anxiety disorders and other personality disorders were observed. With additional comorbidity controlled for, associations with bipolar I disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and schizotypal and borderline personality disorders remained significant, but weakened, among men and women. Similar associations were observed between NPD and specific phobia, generalized anxiety disorder, and bipolar II disorder among women and between NPD and alcohol abuse, alcohol dependence, drug dependence, and histrionic and obsessive-compulsive personality disorders among men. Dysthymic disorder was significantly and negatively associated with NPD.

CONCLUSIONS: NPD is a prevalent personality disorder in the general U.S. population and is associated with considerable disability among men, whose rates exceed those of women. NPD may not be as stable as previously recognized or described in the DSM-IV. The results highlight the need for further research from numerous perspectives to identify the unique and common genetic and environmental factors underlying the disorder-specific associations with NPD observed in this study.
 

Elfboy

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took it again and got 28. this seems about where I would rate myself
Your score for Authority is HIGH
Your score for Self-sufficiency is MEDIUM
Your score for Superiority is HIGH
Your score for Exhibitionism is MEDIUM
Your score for Exploitativeness is MEDIUM
Your score for Vanity is HIGH
Your score for Entitlement is MEDIUM

I think my self sufficiency HIGH and my Entitlement is Low, but other than that, I think it was more accurate this time around
 

Thalassa

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took it again and got 28. this seems about where I would rate myself
Your score for Authority is HIGH
Your score for Self-sufficiency is MEDIUM
Your score for Superiority is HIGH
Your score for Exhibitionism is MEDIUM
Your score for Exploitativeness is MEDIUM
Your score for Vanity is HIGH
Your score for Entitlement is MEDIUM

I think my self sufficiency HIGH and my Entitlement is Low, but other than that, I think it was more accurate this time around

Either way - with either score - would indicate NPD, though it's something that shouldn't really be self-diagnosed by an on-line test.

I remember being frightened at one point that I had BPD, but I have been reasurred by multiple therapists that I do not have this disorder at all. Having abandonment issues =/= BPD...sometimes people think they have a certain thing when they read about it on-line, but it's important to have it diagnosed.
 

guesswho

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took it again and got 28. this seems about where I would rate myself

That's because you rated yourself. :thelook:

Isn't it obvious? Seriously...

you make a thread thinking that NPD is cool, then you take a test which confirms you have a cool disorder.


Awesome.

And if the test would have been reliable at all, nobody would have needed a doctor's diagnosis.
 

Giggly

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Yes, I also noticed that. Someone would probably have to be in a sever state of self loathing and depression to not answer in a "narcissistic" fashion on some of those questions though.

I answered in a narcissistic fashion on some of those questions and got a 5 too.

But all of my results said LOW. I am just modest, not self-loathing.

Your score for Authority is LOW
Your score for Self-sufficiency is LOW
Your score for Superiority is LOW
Your score for Exhibitionism is LOW
Your score for Exploitativeness is LOW
Your score for Vanity is LOW
Your score for Entitlement is LOW
 
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