Sensor Bias at MBTIc

[The Ü™]

The SJ has a lot of initial resistance to change, while the NJ enjoys exploring new things in the beginning. But once we believe we have a near perfect system worked out... good luck on trying to change it anymore.

I don't really think anyone who thinks (regardless of type) is truly open to change, since it is natural to fear the unknown. Hell, if people are so open to change, then they'd probably not mind dying.

Personally, I'm only open to my own conceptions, I tend to be more skeptical of the ideas of others or even new experiences that I feel will be a waste or if it's a violation of my personal comfort. For example, I don't like going to new places or trying out different restaurants or the like unless it's on my terms.

 

[Rajah]

I don't really think anyone who thinks (regardless of type) is truly open to change, since it is natural to fear the unknown. Hell, if people are so open to change, then they'd probably not mind dying.

Personally, I'm only open to my own conceptions, I tend to be more skeptical of the ideas of others or even new experiences that I feel will be a waste or if it's a violation of my personal comfort. For example, I don't like going to new places or trying out different restaurants or the like unless it's on my terms.

This post confuses me... a lot.

 

[Tigerlily]

This post confuses me... a lot.

It should as he's not completely well.

 

[Lateralus]

I don't really think anyone who thinks (regardless of type) is truly open to change, since it is natural to fear the unknown. Hell, if people are so open to change, then they'd probably not mind dying.

LOL

 

[Wandering]

I don't think you're that far off from the truth... I'm a NJ that fully endorse in this. Blame it on the Ni... once we think we've figured things out, it's extremely difficult to knock us off.

True. That's the problem with Ni: it's hard to access, and thus it's hard to manipulate. Typically, anyone who wants to make an NJ change their mind needs to learn patience, because there's basically only one sure-fire method to achieve that:
1- Give us the facts that contradict our position. Calmly!
2- Shut up and wait.
Eventually, our Ni should get down to incorporating those facts, and hopefully we'll change our position. Not necessarily in the way you would want, though But still, sooner or later we will change our position (we always do ) And we might even not believe you when you insist we didn't always agree with you

 

[Mempy]

Hmmm. I just realized that when Whatever came out as an ENTP, she suddenly lost a bit of humble innocence in my mind. I don't think it was that she deceived us that she lost that attractive humbleness.

I think I have for a long time associated Ns with having overinflated opinions of their own intelligence, whereas Ss in my mind have often had endearing humbleness. My change in perception had nothing to do with Whatever, because she didn't suddenly start saying, "I'm Einstein!"; it had to do with the framework of stereotypes in my mind.

There's definitely a climate of "N is more intelligent than S" on this forum. It's probably a big reason why I have associated arrogance with Ns and humbleness with Ss.

I still enjoy you very mucho, Whatever!

 

[The Ü™]

This post confuses me... a lot.

Why?

It should as he's not completely well.

What did I do?

 

[pure_mercury]

Hmmm. I just realized that when Whatever came out as an ENTP, she suddenly lost a bit of humble innocence in my mind. I don't think it was that she deceived us that she lost that attractive humbleness.

I think I have for a long time associated Ns with having overinflated opinions of their own intelligence, whereas Ss in my mind have often had endearing humbleness. My change in perception had nothing to do with Whatever, because she didn't suddenly start saying, "I'm Einstein!"; it had to do with the framework of stereotypes in my mind.

There's definitely a climate of "N is more intelligent than S" on this forum. It's probably a big reason why I have associated arrogance with Ns and humbleness with Ss.

I still enjoy you very mucho, Whatever!

What if someone is an arrogant S?

 

[Rajah]

Why?

Okay...

I don't really think anyone who thinks (regardless of type) is truly open to change, since it is natural to fear the unknown. Hell, if people are so open to change, then they'd probably not mind dying.

This is an awfully big logical leap, isn't it?

Personally, I'm only open to my own conceptions, I tend to be more skeptical of the ideas of others or even new experiences that I feel will be a waste or if it's a violation of my personal comfort. For example, I don't like going to new places or trying out different restaurants or the like unless it's on my terms.

First, this makes no sense! Your conceptions at least had their genesis from outside information. They're not self-generating!

Second, nobody wants to do something that violates his personal code.

Third, going to a new restaurant or not -- even if suggested by someone else -- is on your terms. Otherwise, I have to assume someone physically subdued you and dragged you to the restaurant, or blackmailed you into going, or something similar -- which wouldn't be voluntary in the first place. Although possible, enjoying that experience under those circumstances is unlikely.

Basically, the post just kind of sounded bratty, judgmental and toothless. I don't think you meant it to come across that way...

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Merged both Sensor Bias threads and extricated fluff with surgical precision.

You can still find posts relating exclusively to whatever's type (but not the reasons for her concealing) over here.

P.S. I'm an ESFJ.

 

[The Ü™]

First, this makes no sense! Your conceptions at least had their genesis from outside information. They're not self-generating!

Second, nobody wants to do something that violates his personal code.

Third, going to a new restaurant or not -- even if suggested by someone else -- is on your terms. Otherwise, I have to assume someone physically subdued you and dragged you to the restaurant, or blackmailed you into going, or something similar -- which wouldn't be voluntary in the first place. Although possible, enjoying that experience under those circumstances is unlikely.

Basically, the post just kind of sounded bratty, judgmental and toothless. I don't think you meant it to come across that way...

Well, I get most of my conceptions based on Internet articles, movies, and video games, so if you want to look at it that way, then yes, I guess I am open to newness, but if put into that context, who isn't?

However, I am much less willing to sacrifice things which I am comfortable with.

The restaurant one was just one example, but I prefer switching to a different restaurant on my terms, I don't like someone coming along and spontaneously decide to go to a different restaurant. I probably should have phrased it better by simply saying that I don't like surprises.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

This thread reminds me of Edahn's "blah blah blah" thread.

 

[CzeCze]

Do we need examples? The bias is so obvious. Myself I am biased as hell. Is it a problem? I am not so sure, but if we want sensors on this site, then it is. Those who don't believe there is a bias, maybe you should ask some of the sensors on this page? You know, you don't ask the bullies if they are bullying, you ask those being bullied if they are being bullied.

I don't have time to go through the threads (my car is back! time to go study and earn myself a decent gpa ) but I will probably like this answer the best out of the replies.

Here's a guy who readily admits to personal bias and further, doesn't hedge or act defensive or deny it in himself or in the boards. Even he says yes there's bias, just look.

And look, Whatever's had a social experiment going this entire time! You really are an ENTP.

Hahahahaha.

Now I'm just waiting for other people to come out of the closet and send out waivers so they can publish quotes from us in scientific journals.

 

["?"]

Curious to why the biasness. I have been on the forums and Yahoo Groups for years and find that those preferring intuition do not get type in general. That's indicative of the repeated misconceptions in threads like this, that feelers lead by their emotions when by now anyone that is posting on MBTI forums should know the system measures cognition only.

Another misconception is that those preferring intuition are more rare when clearly there is no viable evidence to show type breakdown by functions, merely by dichotomies (hint folks: I/E takes into consideration Si,Ni,Ti,Fi/Se,Ne,Te,Fe). Finally and more importantly, all types use all functions (HELL0!). SP types have a better means of developing Ni than Ne type (based on Beebe) and SJs have a better development of Ni (per Lenore Thomson). So when these threads pop up so often, are you saying that you hate yourselves when you use your second set of functions?

 

[Mempy]

What if someone is an arrogant S?

I'd say it looks like you're inferencing that I actually think Ns are more capable of arrogance than Ss. I don't. But I do think Ns dominate this forum, and that so many of them believe that N is automatically more intelligent than S that there is a climate of superiority. If for no other reason than the Ns totally overwhelming the Ss in number here, there is a definite overwhelming sense that Ns dominate Ss in intelligence as well, perhaps as much as it is believed Ss dominate Ns in number in the "real world."

People want to be intelligent and worthwhile, S, N, black, white, tall, short, ugly or beautiful. People have a hard time reconciling their need to maintain their self-esteem with their need to see themselves objectively. That's probably the source of arrogance in every shape and form.

Finally and more importantly, all types use all functions (HELL0!).

I think that's a good point. We all have thinking, feeling, sensing and intuition in our top four functions, without exception. If N is more intelligent than S, then it would follow that the types that lead with N would be the most intelligent: ENxP and INxJ.

Still, there is the popular belief running around that INs are usually the most intelligent and the most likely holders of the highest and most impressive IQs. That contradicts the axiom that people who lead with intuition are the most intelligent, because it cuts out ENxPs.

Also, INTPs are often regarded by many as the most intelligent type, but their sensing function is, according to function order theory, more accessible to them than any INxJ's.

There are a few popular theories running around, none of which I place stock in. People are remarkable. We all have the same eight functions, and we all have S, N, T and F in our top four, in different orders. We're capable of being both amazingly similar and breathtakingly different. I truly believe S and N have nothing to do with intelligence, adaptiveness, capableness, etc, etc.

 

[pure_mercury]

I'd say it looks like you're inferencing that I actually think Ns are more capable of arrogance than Ss. I don't.

I don't think you think that, really. I just consider myself probably a good example of Extroversion, Sensing, and arrogance. Maybe there should be an A in the letter group, too. You're right about everyone using all the functions, to a lesser or greater extent,

 

[The Ü™]

I don't think you think that, really. I just consider myself probably a good example of Extroversion, Sensing, and arrogance. Maybe there should be an A in the letter group, too. You're right about everyone using all the functions, to a lesser or greater extent,

I think S arrogance would more likely be labeled as vanity, since vanity implies the more tangible glorification of the self -- glorification of one's appearance or performance. N arrogance would involve the elitists who primarily take pride in their ideas. With that said, the SPs and NTs, as utilitarian types, are more likely to be arrogant in their respective ways.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

There isn't always that much difference between Sensors and iNtuitives when you consider that every type has a Sensing and iNtuitive function. For half of the types the two are adjacent as second and third functions. The clearest distinctions come from those who strongly prefer one function over the other - or in whom one or both S or N functions are nearly absent.

What the Sensor bias looks like to me is a means to unite posters since the days of iNtuitive Central. The N function is what this online community supposedly had in common since that time. It often appears that the definition of Sensors gets squished into a tight little corner as a throw-a-way definition for those traits that the community rejects. It reaches a point that most people assume they must be iNtuitives because the definition of Sensing is smushed down into a handful of rigid, negative traits. The irony is that it is entirely possible that many people who rail against Sensors are in fact Sensors without even realizing it simply because they don't understand the breadth and depth of what those functions are really about. You simply cannot understand the iNtuitive function without understanding Sensing. Both poles of the spectrum must be comprehended and defined in a balanced manner in order for the distinctions to be clear.

 

[pure_mercury]

I think S arrogance would more likely be labeled as vanity, since vanity implies the more tangible glorification of the self -- glorification of one's appearance or performance. N arrogance would involve the elitist know-it-alls who primarily take pride in their ideas. With that said, the SPs and NTs, as utilitarian types, are more likely to be arrogant in their respective ways.

Oh, I am vain AND a know-it-all. Not sure if I am an elitist or not.

 

[alicia91]

There is a HUGE sensor-bias here! Sure there are many very open-minded, friendly, non-biased Intuitives here but pretty much every day someone says that I's are more intelligent, that they wish they wouldn't ever have to deal with S's ever again, that S brains are more primitive, etc. Or my favorite 'that Sensor's have 'trouble' understanding what I's mean because they are too concrete and things need to be simplified etc. Someone actually said to me when I first joined that he hoped that I would stick around even though they might be discussing things that I might find hard to follow. WTF?

I think MBTI (and other psychology topics) to be fascinating but many here place much too much importance on it which last I heard was an unproven theory and then use it to seperate and put people in boxes rather than using it to understand and relate to others.